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(Book Spoilers)PSA: Regarding E09's controversial moment. It was GRRM's idea.


Snark88

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Stannis is outside of Winterfell in the books. Selyse, Melisandre and Shireen are at Castle Black.



When she burns, it will not be by Stannis's hand.



They may as well have just changed Stannis's name on the show like they did with Yara/Asha because this is not the same character from the books by a long stretch. The fact that this scene came directly before Daznak's Pit just goes to show the writers are doing everything they can to make Daenaerys look good.



And it worked, because guess what? More people are still talking about Dany flying on Drogon.


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Wasn't confirmed that Shireen wouldn't be able to bear children ? I'm sure a i read something about it and her treatments to avoid dying from greyscale.

Nope, nothing in the books like this. Stannis is pretty cool with killing Baratheons.Mabye he's a secret Targaryen loyalist?

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I have many problems.



But firstly who the f--k do the showrunners think they are for outright spoiling the books?



If they wanted to burn Shireen fine, why did they have to open their yap and say "when George told us", they go ahead of the books, go off-book and merge characters and do whatever damn thing that comes to their mind and leave it to the readers to sort out if what happens will happen, or in the same manner in the books, but outright spoiling the books is well, I don't know.


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Stannis is outside of Winterfell in the books. Selyse, Melisandre and Shireen are at Castle Black.

When she burns, it will not be by Stannis's hand.

They may as well have just changed Stannis's name on the show like they did with Yara/Asha because this is not the same character from the books by a long stretch. The fact that this scene came directly before Daznak's Pit just goes to show the writers are doing everything they can to make Daenaerys look good.

And it worked, because guess what? More people are still talking about Dany flying on Drogon.

Or you know... Characters could move. I highly doubt Stannis, Selyse, Melisandre, and Shireen will all stay in their exact locations until A Dream of Spring.

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I have many problems.

But firstly who the f--k do the showrunners think they are for outright spoiling the books?

If they wanted to burn Shireen fine, why did they have to open their yap and say "when George told us", they go ahead of the books, go off-book and merge characters and do whatever damn thing that comes to their mind but outright spoiling the books is well, I don't know.

We have been told plenty of times that the show is going to surpass the books, and end long before the books do. Not sure why you're upset about this.

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How I imagine it went down .



GRRM: Guys I have this idea about burning Shireen.



D&D: OMG great idea Shock Value blah blah anybody can die yeah that will get us noticed cos we be great and will do anything. Everyone will think we're brilliant. [/self centred arrogant smugness]



Season 5 finishes filming



GRRM: I have this really great idea for a character that like evolves naturally but they can't do it on the show because of the direction they have took and butterflies.



http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz302/rvancetal/1294618332735.jpg



Shireen for the Iron throne :devil:


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We have been told plenty of times that the show is going to surpass the books, and end long before the books do. Not sure why you're upset about this.

Them outright telling in the fifth season on Inside the Episode that "George told them it will happen" is basically spoiling the books. If you cannot recognize that then you are a bold-faced liar.

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Before everyone else freaks out at me I'm not saying that the scene on the show was earned, because I don't think it was.



All I am saying is that under similar circumstances bookMelisandre liekly would be able to bookStannis into sacrificing his daughter.


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Or you know... Characters could move. I highly doubt Stannis, Selyse, Melisandre, and Shireen will all stay in their exact locations until A Dream of Spring.

Theres a Blizzard tho. They are going nowhere. Winter is coming remember?

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Not a Stannis fan, but i threw up in my mouth watching this episode. GRRM on amazon where they are shilling his books writes "the closest thing to a hero in these books is Stannis, etc etc". GRRM just last season went on fuckingn tv and said "stannis is saving the realm to become king" and not 8 episodes later has this dude burn his only daughter alive because of a little snow flurry, and his soldiers getting the sniffles.


Its going to be like pulling teeth reading TWOW now. Oh yay, another Theon chapter, woopee, be still my beating heart. Choice between the child burner and the child skinner, yay. What original storeytelling GRRM. Not like the readers should actually enjoy reading and all that.


So now we have to root for Dany and Tyrion, as D&D shove their shit down our throats. I know what i'm cheering for next season. A snow avalanche in Santa Fe, NM. Thats what. Fuck these books

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Why are people so dead-sure Book!Stannis wouldn't burn Shireen? He's openly said that the life of one child is worth sacrificing it if saves millions, and that sacrifice must be hard or it's no true sacrifice. He's also been repeatedly shown as a man who will do whatever it takes to win.



And yes, killing his only heir to win is a phyrric victory if his sole goal is to take the throne and propagate his line, but isn't one of the reasons people love Stannis precisely because he's the only candidate for the throne who understands there's more at stake than who gets to be king? From his view, the Others are coming and if they win it won't matter who is king.


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I have many problems.

But firstly who the f--k do the showrunners think they are for outright spoiling the books?

If they wanted to burn Shireen fine, why did they have to open their yap and say "when George told us", they go ahead of the books, go off-book and merge characters and do whatever damn thing that comes to their mind and leave it to the readers to sort out if what happens will happen, or in the same manner in the books, but outright spoiling the books is well, I don't know.

They did it because they are cowards who aren't willing to defend the scene on its merits so they use GRRM as their shield.

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Them outright telling in the fifth season on Inside the Episode that "George told them it will happen" is basically spoiling the books. If you cannot recognize that then you are a bold-faced liar.

Again, I'm not sure why you're surprised, or why you're calling me a liar for that matter, but they have mentioned plenty of times that this season will have spoilers from Winds. I suggest you drop the show now if you're worried about being spoilers.

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I'm sorry, but some of you are seriously in denial. "What D and D said was vague." How was it vague? They said, "When George told us about this.." What do you think they are really talking about? Stannis throwing a barbecue for his men? No, they are talking about Stannis burning Shireen.

Some of you really need to wake up. We are going to be getting George's ending from the show long before the final book is finished. That will include major events like this a long the way.

No one is in denial. You are misreading things heavily.

They *were* vague. He'll, D&D aren't even the people who edited that Youtube segment. The context of what he was talking about isn't known.

For this to happen in the books in this manner makes nonsense, and it's logical to virtually dismiss that. Shireen burning in a very different plot is possible, but even that is highly unknown.

People thinking the quote indicates this was Martin's idea are stretching heavily and reading a meaning into what Benioff said, that isn't actually there.

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I have no doubt Shireen will burn in the books but some of your being thick.



Stannis will not burn her. Not only does it make zero sense but the last we hear of Stannis he tells his knights to put Shireen on the on Throne not tie her to a fucking stake.


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No, GRRM hasn't been laying the groundwork for this scene since ACOK, since Shireen isn't with Stannis on his march towards Winterfell. She in is Castle Black. If Shireen burns in the books it will be VERY different from what we watched on HBO.

I'm not going to go through all the various quotes that show that you're wrong, there are plenty of threads where much more meticulous readers than myself have made excellent cases that this was coming. However I am going to point out how flimsy your argument is, it's predicated on the idea that Stannis will never even see his daughter again, which means all is lost for him anyway, so what's the point? Do I think Stannis will burn Shireen in the books in order to get to Winterfell? No, and I never said I did because logistically it makes no sense. Do I think there will be an even more dire situation for Stannis where Shireen is close at hand and he chooses to feed her to the fire? Absolutely, because he has an iron will and won't bend for anyone or anything, including his own daughter. Besides, book Stannis doesn't seem to have the warm fuzzies for his daughter the way show Stannis does, which will only make it easier.
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Not to mention Stannis could be dead in the books for all we know.



The point is, he wouldn't burn Shireen. Or if he does, it is going to take a lot for him to get from "you will put my daughter on the iron throne, or die trying" at presumably the beginning of TWoW to ... "Yeah, okay, let's burn her."


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That quote is supposed to mean what exactly? In the show where Ellaria's character made a 180° turn, hellbent on murdering an innocent child for revenge?



In a show where all logic was eschewed so Sansa could be raped while her book storyline is completely different?



Exfuckingcuse me if I don't take what appears for them to say "this" as Stannis throwing all logic out the window and ordering the death of his only heir and child.



So anyone who links that quote can calm their pants with "George planned it so hurr durr shut up". It means nothing if and until it is further clarified by the D's or George.



When it does happen in the books, I have no doubt in my mind that Stannis is not involved in it because the show loves to "turn it up to eleven" when it comes to the shock factor in this show as George described several times. Who doesn't love a father showing affection to his daughter a few episodes ago and turn around and burn her right? It makes for such dramatic television! They built Stannis up as a sympathetic character this whole season while showing him as the devil in previous ones, only to make people even more shocked when this scene occured. Pathetic really.


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