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Will the real Harpy please stand up


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I don't know if the books even have a Harpy figure. Its one of those tantalizing mysteries.

But in the show, its not going to be the same as in the books. So they will have the following options:

1) Daario -- Because it makes no goddamn sense, so perfect for the showrunners.

2) Grey Worm -- Conveniently the only guy to survive, it explains the Harpy being reluctant to attack him and using light wounds, it also explains why the Unsullied have been weak lately and why Grey Worm marched into that alley to start with. As for motivations, I don't know...doesn't matter for the show.

3) Missandei - Same as 1) and 2).

4) Varys -- This is out of the left field but maybe Varys has secretly masterminded the whole Harpy conspiracy so as to teach Daenerys lessons in rulership. it's the kind of d--k move he enjoys doing and its simple, cost-effective, timely and roundabout fashion to make it work. Varys is testing Dany, Jorah and Tyrion. And you know, it kind of elevates Varys into being the super-villain he is. It can also be a cool segue, Tyrion finds out from someone who the Harpy is, and then cut to Kevan and Varys...

All 4 of these are ridiculous and you forgot one option.

5) There is no leader because in the end it does not matter since Dany will be hightailing it to Westeros probably by mid season next year.

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The SOTH not having a leader seems a bit of a stretch. They are organized and always seem to be in the right place at the right time. They would have killed Greyworm (Artihcus022 tried implied his wounds weren't grave, then why is he still trying to recover from his wounds? No ... he would have died if Selmy hadn't arrived at an unexpected moment) and probably Dany if Drogon hadn't unexpectedly shown up. This theory doesn't fit the book, but there is a person who would fit the loved betrayer and had the knowledge to coordinate all these attacks. That person is Missandei. In the books she is too young (ten years old), but she was raised by the Masters and there may be some deep rooted hatred for Dany for killing the people that raised her. Missandei wasn't treated badly and was even educated by the masters. She hears every plan and would probably know information about the Unsullied from Greyworm. Her interest in him could be a ruse to get information and to further embed herself into the plans of Dany. I will admit this is a stretch, but it would make a very interesting plot twist and not the first time a handmaiden has stabbed her in the back.



Daario doesn't really fit because I don't believe Dany loves Daario ... he is just a boy toy. No one else has the knowledge and reason to be leading this revolt. It could also be someone we haven't met to this point or perhaps a plural ... but there is definitely some leadership involved. The strikes are organized and thought out, headless mobs don't act this way.


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the betrayal of Dany that people are talking about already happened and was clearly Ser Jorah, non? It doesn't have to be romantic "Love". she loved and trusted him implicitly. and he betrayed her. end of prophecy.



no idea about who the leader of the Sons of the Harpy is. i agree that there needs to be some kind of leader. and also i've been continually puzzled as to how they all seem to be so organized in their attacks and also such skilled fighters that they can take on unsullied. also - why on earth they'd be killing the nobles, as well. unless they're just killing nobles who showed deference to Queen Dany as they see it as a kind of betrayal to their city and cause.



not even sure which theory to cling on to. i have to assume that Daario won't be making it to Westeros, so i'm gonna go ahead and guess that it's him and that the SoTH are really his Second Sons . although it doesn't really make sense either and truly feels like grasping at straws. soooo .... not sure.


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I thought about Jorah, but why prophesize about something so minor? And he was one of Varys's little birds, so was it really a betrayal when the person he was feeding information to was actually on her side? Varys is obviously the guy that tipped Jorah off about the poison, so I am not sure this was a true betrayal outside of not revealing it and since the betrayal only wounded her trust, I really doubt it would be worth prophesizing about.


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There won't be a lead harpy in the show. I'm fairly confident that fight in the pits will be the last real important action/ mention of them as part of Danys plot. With the death of Hizdahr I imagine the whole Meereen politics/ Danys rule plot is wrapped up.

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This is my very first post on this board, I'm just reading all the time. :)

I never picked up one of the books (and I don't plan to do so until the show is over), but I'm heavily spoilered. I click on every spoiler-tag I can find. Without you guys I would never have thought, that the SotH could have a leader. So I guess in the show there just isn't one. The Harpies work well for me without.

Welcome to the forum, Purple Kitten. :cheers:

The opinions on most sites with Game of Thrones threads/forums are divided about a Sons leader, but it does seem to me that they are being guided, so it could be a religious figure, or maybe a democratic decision, or something like pulling straws :lol: ...hell, it could be much like what Mance did to become the king of the Wildlings: bribe, combat, or charm.

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2) Grey Worm -- Conveniently the only guy to survive, it explains the Harpy being reluctant to attack him and using light wounds, it also explains why the Unsullied have been weak lately and why Grey Worm marched into that alley to start with. As for motivations, I don't know...doesn't matter for the show.

Reminds me my old crackpot book theory about that :

"Who is this goddess ? One of the gods of Ghis ?"

Grey Worm looked troubled. "The goddess is called by many names. She is the Lady of Spears, the Bride of Battles, the Mother of Hosts, but her true name belongs only to these poor ones who have burned their manhoods upon the altar."

(ADWD p.556)

What if she is the Harpy ?

Harpy is not a mereneese only thing, but the main god of all ghis. The harpy is worshiped as well in Astapor.

And there's a group of people trained to be complete fanatics devoid of any humanity, this group is the Unsullied.

Who is more a "Son of the Harpy" than someone who "burned his manhood upon her altar" ?

While their first reflex was to obey Dany in Astrapor, as she was holding the wand giving her total command over them, they are still product of their education, and that education includes a secret cult dedicated to the harpy (what better's than religion to make people fanatics ? also making unsullied religious fanatics may have been a way to re-take control of them once sold, the Astapors slavers just didn't find time to use because they were slain too fast).

Grey Worm kept his Unsullied name, perhaps he is also the most attached to their traditions, and the leader of a group of Unsullied still practicing this cult (I say a group because if all Unsullied were Harpies they could have took power easily).

As long the Unsullied were on the road they served Dany without problem, but things changed at Mereen, where they could meet a representative of the Harpy religion (eventually the green grace) to tell them that the Harpy will punish them in the afterlife if they don't follow the will of the goddess, goddess which is naturally supportive of a return to traditionnal ghiscari practices including slavery.

One of the first victims of the Usullied-Harpies is one perverted Unsullied who was visiting brothels to get some comfort, expressing an human feeling completely against Unsullied education.

Considered extremely loyal and never suspected for anything, the Unsullied could easily organize all the murders of the Son of the Harpy (first striking some influential unsullied who were becoming too humans, then other supporters of Dany).

Then they may have had the same reasons as in crackpot theory 1 to stop their crimes to make her marry Hizdaq, or the Green Grace may just have asked them to.

If Greyworm supports the Barristan-Shavepate counter-attack plan, it's because in the middle of the battle of Mereen, when the other anti slavery forces are engaged outside the walls, they will be in the best position to change side and organize their coup.

But...

If it was the case, the showmakers would have kept the only potential hint from the books, the mysterious unsullied cult and religious aspect of their castration.

And would never have included Miss+Worm love story.

IMO the harpy won't be revealed in the show (or if it is I'd say it's either Daario they merged with the shavepate who would be the real book!harpy, or the prostitute in which cas book!harpy would be the green grace).

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I still quite believe Hizdahr was the leader of the Harpies and I think that there is much evidence to satisfy this. In regards to mostly episode 9, Hizdahr arrived late to the fighting pits and when Daenerys asked where he was, he kind of dismissed her concern by saying he was dealing with something? It seems to be that everytime Hizdahr is with Daenerys, there is a background massacre carried out by the Harpies such as just before Ser Barristan Selmy was killed. I have a feeling Hizdahr is leading them and just before the fighting pits, he may have planned this siege out carefully and told one of the Harpy to 'kill' him to make it look as if he has always been on Daenerys' side. Yes 'kill' him; I don't believe he is dead as Emergency Awesome says, we never actually saw him completely dead when Tyrion crouched down to pick up a dagger/sword. Yes, we saw him getting stabbed but I don't think it was brutal enough especially for him. All the other civilians and masters were being brutally stabbed continuously. Hizdahr was stabbed once in a less brutal manner, which to me, implies that he will be able to be healed with this one stab.



Notice how as soon as Hizdahr told Daenerys he knows a way to escape, he is stabbed. This may portray a loss of hope for her even though she had the unsullied, Jorah and Daario by her side. I truly doubt Hizdahr would've showed her the true way out of the fighting pits/ Colosseum without her being surrounded by Harpies.


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My money is on the Shavepate.



The book made it very clear that while he and Hizdar are both of noble Mereenese families, there is a wide difference of perception between the two. One of the Graces told Daenerys upfront that anyone from Meereen would understand that.



Hizdar attempts to deal with this dangerous, inconvenient outsider by making dealings with her, including one of marriage. The Shavepate manipulates her by presenting biased counsel. Both see her as a pawn in their struggle for power, believing (probably with good reason) that no one in Essos but the former slaves will even attempt to think of Daenerys as a "true" Queen. She is, after all, not only an outsider but also nearly without clue of their society. She can't expect to communicate well with the natives, let alone earn their trust.


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If it's not Hizdar, doesn't that make the beginning of Daznak's Pit rather misleading?

I mean when it first shows Dany, Hizdar only just arrives. Dany asks him where he has been and he says "Just making sure everything is in order." and smirks to himself.

So you see that as evidence for Hizdar being the Harpy? I'm not following.

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So you see that as evidence for Hizdar being the Harpy? I'm not following.

I don't know, but it was an odd line and a suspicious delivery to put in there if it didn't actually mean anything. If he had turned out to be the Harpy, it would have made sense, but then he got stabby-stabbed.

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Ok, from the books, I got the impression "Sons of the Harpy" was in reference to the city itself, not a "Harpy" character. The reason the pit scene is so confusing is they took a scene Martin filled with intrigue and story building, and said "Meh, lets throw a bunch of cheap extras in SOTH costumes in and have them start killing everyone. Problem solved!" D&D at their best! The Sons in the book aren't a fighting force, they catch Unsullied or others alone or in small groups and kill them. They wouldn't openly challenge them in battle because they would lose! BTW, didn't Danny purchase a whole army? Since she got to Mireen, your lucky if you see more than two Unsullied at any moment.


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