The Dance of Dragons Episode Guide

[Westeros]

We’ve posted our episode guide for the latest episode, “The Dance of Dragons”, as quickly as we could. Lots of controversy over the depiction of Stannis Baratheon in this episode, to say the least! Our episode guide currently only contains our book-to-screen breakdown, and video extras from HBO. Suffice it to say, we’re going to try and get a review video out ASAP.

HBO has also provided its usual preview, this time for the season finale, “Mother’s Mercy”. You can see it below:

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[Ghosts Lunch]

As I've said elsewhere, expect Shireen to die in the books as foreshadowed by Vals discussion etc

As for the show I'm wondering if this is a clumsy merging of which we've seen a few. I can understand merging but do it properly

Taking the emotion out of it, there's a few themes, eg this comes on the back of Hardhome, they obviously upped the Shireen adorableness and killed her so agonisingly and this is good to understand in terms of Jons words to Karsi("Val") about "think of your children now" which turns her opinion around) and of course later on she gets mauled by Child Wights when she can't kill them (even though they are already dead).

This all points to the death of innocence and the future is bleak...

theme in the show of Faith/Family being explored throughout the season and I expect this is a twin to Cersei/Lancel, Lancel has spilled everything to the detriment of House Lannister and I expect Ser Robert to kill Lancel in trial by combat on some charges, so even in "victory' Cersei is sowing the seeds of House Lannisters downfall just as Stannis sowed the seeds of House Baratheon by killing his brother and in the case of the show his daughter

As for the books, I expect there will be much focused around the children - as in small children not teenagers - where Tommen/Myrcella, Sweetrobin, Shireen, Rickon and in an older class like Sansa, Jon/Arya will all come into conflict, point is many will die brutally as a way of showing there is no future as the Ice Apocalypse descends on them all.

Harpies was well done, there is no politically placating them, IMO they are lead by the Whore woman - the "Mother of the Harpies" which is a good counter to Dany theme was (lol, Queen of the Harpies!) and they are Ghiscari nationalists who would dislike the "merchant" masters as much as Dany who they hate for her Valyrian roots IMO

Iit was good to get some comedy out of Mace Tyrell, he is such a buffoon out of place in that world he is probably the only untouchable character lol

[Ser Creighton]

I don't doubt Shireen will die in the books, but I have really questions about who decides this. Stannis may have sent a yet to arrive letter to the wall. But the build up on the show felt like it went from A to C. They have there moment on the show, and then a couple of episodes later he burns her because of raid by Ramsey in which he sneaks into a Camp with 20 men, a camp that has no north men, goes to the unguarded food stores which his invisible men light in unison. I mean you don't even see any men you just see magic fires starting in the exact same manner from tent after tent. But it still comes down to Shireen being in a position outside of the books, so they could have Stannis burn her. When or if it happens in the books still seems more speculative because they are just not together and the books have yet to really build up to Stannis coming to this choice.

The Pit seen is just wrong, but it seems these are things D&D pick up from the books, less depth and lots of superficial. For them the pit scene is not about Dany rejecting her new position among the slavers, it's about riding a dragon and somehow Jorah, Tyrion, Daario, Sons of the Harpy, and needing to be rescued. Jon's choices and conflicts from the books are now about action hero Jon pissing off a kid, it's not really about stuck between the Wildlings and the Watch, it's about Olly and Jon.

When these writers are left to their own devices we get something like Dorne, which tells me certain writers are not very good, like not even a bad episode of Xena good. It's like agency and characterization has been replaced by manufactured moments of shock and awe. For D&D what was important was riding a dragon is cool, forget about the choices, agency and conflict of Dany, Dragon riding. We all know the books have the shock and awe moments, no question, but the books are still about the characters and their choices, and journeys. They are showing scenes but the lack the depth and emotion of the books. Even the shallow Sand Snakes, they are not all that deep in the books, but on the show they have zero depth and how often do we here about there weapons? Double Daggers, Double Daggers, Double Daggers, the Snakes may be shallow but they are not ASOIAF collectors addition weapons set. Like even D&D talking about them they focused on the weapons. Just reduce them to tools and objects.

It's really important in the books the first time Dany rides Drogon, but it's not just because she rode him, it was everything that led up to that moment, riding Drogon was just the payoff or cherry on top. D&D only seemed concerned with the payoff. They skip the logic, the depth, the agency and the buildup for the payoff. Sansa getting to Winterfell and why she is there does not need to make sense to them, they just want to get to that certain scene.

I know they can't match the books, it's a TV show, but couldn't they at least try to act like characterization matters instead being overly concerned with certain scenes they feel will shock and awe or be cool. I mean come on you got a bunch of bad guys in masks that managed to slip past all the guards, including one that walked past two Unsullied to get into her box. Jorah happens to be at the pits again, and just in time to throw a spear to save her because literally nobody noticed this guy, in her viewing box, with Darrio and no less that 6 Unsullied, and of course she can't have a debate with Hiz without losing so Tyrion has to bail her out there, then he has to save Missy, and Jorah has to save Dany, and Drogon has to save them, and then random Harpies are just standing there throwing spears every now and then, but stop so she can have her At&t moment where she reaches out to touch someone. Then it's time to abandon everyone in the Pit, where the Harpies still are, and speaking of Harpies, who was the moron in the tunnel/ Ok you are all by Yourself, Jorah runs right past you as the door is closed and you pop out in front of him to confront Dany and her dozen or so Unsullied and Darrio, while at the same time making sure Jorah is behind you for the easy kill because you are the dumbest person on the planet. "Haha I gotcha now Mother of Dragons and all her men?" Like who the hell put that together, where are the rest of the Unsullied by the way, you have a raid on the pit and nobody shows up? Oh and the Hiz the Wiz death scene, as he also tries to save Dany. Dany does not choose to go into the pit, she does not reject the slavers who were calling her mother in the books, she is not all that disgusted with the fighting pits, she never takes off her floppy ears, she does not run to save Drogon. You really should not be taking away the choices of the characters in the books as Martin considers the choices they make to be a rather important part of the story. Also why does it take Tyrion to correct Hiz, with a clearly obvious statement, which is basically yes slavery and the pits have worked for you in the past, but that does not mean it worked for the slaves or made it right, the benefit was all pretty much for the slavers. Why also is the pit somehow suppose to unite freed slave and master? I mean how many slaves were not given a choice and were butchered in those pits, how many of their children were fed to bears and lions for sport? Why would that pit bring them together after all the atrocities they have performed on the slaves. How does that make it ok? You know in the past the masters also used to whip the slaves, clearly if we bring that back it will create unity also can we get the Unsullied to murder babes in their mothers arms, because that is what the Unsullied now from their training.

I knew the Dragon riding was not going to look great, I have never really seen a movie in which dragon riding looks real, but for the love of god could you buy a fan so at least her hair moves. Maybe Dany washes her hair in natural juices and berries which create a helmet like hold.

[boojam]

I knew the Dragon riding was not going to look great, I have never really seen a movie in which dragon riding looks real, but for the love of god could you buy a fan so at least her hair moves. Maybe Dany washes her hair in natural juices and berries which create a helmet like hold.

I saw her hair being windblown.

[AGS Martell]

I disagree about the scenes being superficial.

They are nicely done taking into account they are developed in a 55 min episode.

Dany didn't just hop on Drogon and fly away, we had a minute exchange where she takes out a spear from him and hops on AFTER the harpies try to kill him again. Clearly, the scene tried to mirror her decission get away safely with her baby, who wouldn't leave without her.

As for Shireen, we had many previous scenes that lead to this outcome.

If I'm to criticize anything, is that horrible editing. In one episode we have 5 plots shown that have nothing in common... but this has been a mistake since the firsts seasons.

[The hairy bear]

As for Shireen, we had many previous scenes that lead to this outcome.

By many you mean... one?

Stannis triumphantly departs Castle Black in Episode 5, and then does not appear in Episode 6. Episode 7 had the first scene where Stannis and his army are shown to have any kind of problem (a snowstorm), and in this very scene Melisandre suggests sacrificing Shireen. Stannis blatantly rejects it. In Episode 8 Stannis does not appear again. And in Episode 9, he burns his daugthter.

[Quarinius]

No, it's been implicit since S4, when Melisandre frickin' suggested it to Selyse.

[boojam]

There is an odd perception here about the mounting and riding of Drogon.

The way scene tracks Dany first pulls a spear out and Drogon gets another and the way I see the expression on her face and what she's thinking is "I gotta get him out of here". NO joy ride implied. I don't see it.

Would have rather seen the whip and submission but in the scene in the book Drogon does seem, well eventually seem to recognize her.

"In the smoldering red pits of Drogon’s eyes, Dany saw her own reflection." --- GRRM

In the book it's hard to tell if she's trying to protect Drogon but that's the effect of her getting him to submit.

On the show Drogon submits to the command "Valahd" so it's sort of the same result.

I think both plot stories are valid, but in E9 she sure does not mount Drogon for 'joy ride'.