RagnarokKing Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 So Shireen is now dead in the show, burned by Stannis on the way to Winterfell. However, in the books Shireen is not going to Winterfell, but remains at Castle Black, as does Melisandre and Selyse. With Jon being stabbed at the end of ADWD, one of the theories is that Mel will sacrifice Shireen to revive Jon, obviously that will not happen in the show now. But the question I am presenting here is, was Shireen burned by Stannis so as not to tarnish Jon Snow? Assuming the theory mentioned above is correct, it could be considered a bit of a black mark on Jon Snow, even if he wouldn't want it to happen. Also the act could easily be viewed as justified, after all Jon seems to be big hero of the story, perhaps Azor Ahai or the Prince that was Promised, so doing whatever it takes to save him could easily be seen as justified. So was Shireen burned by Stannis so that it would appear as the atrocity that it is, and so that Jon Snow's reputation wouldn't be tarnished by having a well-like character killed horrifically for his sake? What are your thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Visenya Stark Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Shireen being sacrificed to revive Jon wouldn't tarnish his reputation. If he's not aware of it and didn't order it to happen, then why should he be blamed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artihcus022 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 We can only know when the next book comes so not worth discussing. AT ALL. The show is the show, whatever it does, regardless if it happens in the books or not, happens in a separate context with characters who are totally different and who resemble each other if at all in name. Unless GRRM himself discusses and talks about it, its not of the slightest importance in any way or form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannistician Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 If it happens in the books the way the OP suggests, nobody would blame Jon, but it would force the reader to have a lingering question in their minds regarding whether or not it was worth it. Furthermore, it would probably haunt Jon to an extent (even though it would not be his fault at all), and it would be something that he would have to internally deal with for the remainder of the story. I thought about this as well, and expressed my feelings right after the show aired. The timing of Shireen's burning on the show does raise the question of whether it was done at this point of the story so that the show audience will not associate Shireen's burning with Jon's posible resurrection as AA. Using Tyrion as an example, D & D do like to whitewash some of the heroes, so this is certainly a possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sb.69 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 What make you think that Jon is so important, to Melisandre, that she's going to kill the king's daughter, behind the king's back, to save him? If that would happen, she would definitely know that Stannis would kill her (and probably Jon too) when (or if) he gets back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannistician Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 What make you think that Jon is so important, to Melisandre, that she's going to kill the king's daughter, behind the king's back, to save him? If that would happen, she would definitely know that Stannis would kill her (and probably Jon too) when (or if) he gets back. Pink Letter. Mel thinks Stannis is dead (and maybe he is). She could burn Shireen to try and bring Stannis back, but it resurrects Jon instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sb.69 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Pink Letter. Mel thinks Stannis is dead (and maybe he is). She could burn Shireen to try and bring Stannis back, but it resurrects Jon instead. Nah. With the change of the characters in the show, what does the pink letter demanding? Sansa might not go to the wall. The timing is all off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris999 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 What make you think that Jon is so important, to Melisandre, that she's going to kill the king's daughter, behind the king's back, to save him? If that would happen, she would definitely know that Stannis would kill her (and probably Jon too) when (or if) he gets back. It would be a spoiler because the only evidence is in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowKitteh Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Good thing Mel doesn't know who Jon's parents are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sb.69 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Good thing Mel doesn't know who Jon's parents are. Nobody knows, for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldric Storm Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 So Shireen is now dead in the show, burned by Stannis on the way to Winterfell. However, in the books Shireen is not going to Winterfell, but remains at Castle Black, as does Melisandre and Selyse. With Jon being stabbed at the end of ADWD, one of the theories is that Mel will sacrifice Shireen to revive Jon, obviously that will not happen in the show now. But the question I am presenting here is, was Shireen burned by Stannis so as not to tarnish Jon Snow? Assuming the theory mentioned above is correct, it could be considered a bit of a black mark on Jon Snow, even if he wouldn't want it to happen. Also the act could easily be viewed as justified, after all Jon seems to be big hero of the story, perhaps Azor Ahai or the Prince that was Promised, so doing whatever it takes to save him could easily be seen as justified. So was Shireen burned by Stannis so that it would appear as the atrocity that it is, and so that Jon Snow's reputation wouldn't be tarnished by having a well-like character killed horrifically for his sake? What are your thoughts? I think she's burned to awaken the stone dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor's Dragon Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 It makes a lot of sense to me. Mel seems to be in the process of changing her mind about who Azor Ahai is. ("all I see is snow") Jon wouldn't be blamed for it, but he would be associated with it. Through no fault at all, he would owe his life to a truly horrific act. How do you suppose Jon "broody emo kid" Snow would react to that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 So they threw Stannis under the bus to make Jon remain pure as snow? I really don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Mel seems to be in the process of changing her mind about who Azor Ahai is. ("all I see is snow") Or Mel seems to be in the process of realizing that Jon is the person she should burn to help Stannis ("all I see is Snow") What better time to do that while Jon is bleeding to death? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkbringer Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Shireen being sacrificed to revive Jon wouldn't tarnish his reputation. If he's not aware of it and didn't order it to happen, then why should he be blamed? He wouldnt be blamed per se, but being alive because of a childs deathcwould hit Jon pretty hard, and also damage his reputation potentially (in world). It would make it a bittersweet way to come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facebookless Man Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 They wanted a shocking moment in ep.9 and that's about as far as their concern for the story goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon in the North Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 They wanted a shocking moment in ep.9 and that's about as far as their concern for the story goes. First of all, if all they wanted was a shocking moment, wouldn't Daznak's Pit have been enough? Second of all, Shireen's burning was done for plot, not shock value. There will be repercussions in the story as a result, and these repercussions will push the plot forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolverine Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Shireen being sacrificed to revive Jon wouldn't tarnish his reputation. If he's not aware of it and didn't order it to happen, then why should he be blamed? Right, it would just give him even more depressive brooding guilt fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artihcus022 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 So they threw Stannis under the bus to make Jon remain pure as snow? I really don't think so. Given how petty the showrunners are it would not surprise me in the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CerseiStark Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 We can only know when the next book comes so not worth discussing. AT ALL. Especially because he wasn't written it yet. GRRM just said so in a comment on his blog. Man...just...man...LOL. I can't believe he has gotten himself into this position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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