The other controversial scene (spoilers)

[Fox Mulder]

I don't think it's a case of people being too sensitive and wanting to be politically correct. But at some point, all the "human awfulness" or excessive nudity or sexposition needs to fit the narrative and advance something. Instead, it's all too often falling into a case of being there just to shock, titillate, or because "it's HBO."

I agree they go overboard on the nudity and sex stuff. In this case though it seems like they are just adapting/inspired by the source material and they are not sure the audience remembers that Trant is a dick. I don't blame them for that. For anyone that has watched the show with casual unsullied fans they are horrible at telling people apart.

[dannyk65]

I don't think it's a case of people being too sensitive and wanting to be politically correct. But at some point, all the "human awfulness" or excessive nudity or sexposition needs to fit the narrative and advance something. Instead, it's all too often falling into a case of being there just to shock, titillate, or because "it's HBO."

**Giggles**

[Fox Mulder]

If you're planning on doing this in every thread where people use the P-word, it's gonna take an awfully long time

Yeah pedophilia is like fascism or nazi its a good insult for every situation. And gets the point across that the person is bad.

[Borodin]

I hear next season is going to feature a new villain, Ser Abbom Inayshyn.

He's a pedophile who eats children and kills puppies, but also has sex with animals and rapes old ladies. He's loosely based on an amalgam of lesser known George R.R. Martin's characters, so he's still faithful to the books. He is also vaguely medieval, so he is also authentic in terms of period. Ser Abbom advances no particular plot lines, in fact he is completely unnecessary, but he will feature in a series of shocking ratings-boosting scenes involving babies.

Show watchers are already applauding the new addition, stating things like "A Feast for Crows never had a wicked-awesome character like this!" Another loyal watcher had this to say: "George R.R. Martin is such a bad writer. Thank goodness we have HBO to deliver what Game of Thrones is really about!"

Ser Abbom Inashyn also has perfect breasts which will feature in every scene.

[Pigeon Pie]

I agree it's very much for shock value and they could have shown him being a pedophile in a less shocking and distasteful way, but making him a pedophile sort of makes it easier for Arya to get a good hold on him. Think of Kill Bill's Oren when "lucky for her" the Japanese mob guy she was trying to kill was a pedophile.

[The Northern Scholar]

I agree they go overboard on the nudity and sex stuff. In this case though it seems like they are just adapting/inspired by the source material and they are not sure the audience remembers that Trant is a dick. I don't blame them for that. For anyone that has watched the show with casual unsullied fans they are horrible at telling people apart.

And I DO understand that. I just think people overstate the extent to which all this "bad stuff" happens in the books. Yeah, it's there. But a lot of it doesn't happen directly. Sure, it's referenced and talked about, but very rarely is it placed from and center. I think the show is too quick to move this stuff to the forefront to "push the envelope."

[Lord Freypie]

Did you read the released "mercy" chapter of TWoW? Pretty much the same thing happens, and Arya is even younger in the books.

Not exactly the same thing.

In Mercy chapter Raff, who is as far I remember a normal guy -if it can be said of a Gregor man- previously seen with consentant adult camp followers, gets a sex proposal from Arya, who look maiden age by westerosi standard, around lowest limit of fair game in their society, and accepts with no indication I remember he'd have refused the same from an older girl.

And as the proposal comes from Arya the reader knowns from the start, it's only to kill him (at most the reader may fear she fails -personnally having read before GRRM saying he don't want to tell the rape of a PoV in their chapter, he could repeat "rape" 60 times I had no fear for Arya ; and as I'm used to asoiaf ages being 5 years younger than they should, Dany-Drogo and all, I hardly considered the age point as a big deal in this scene).

While the "rape" word is some kind of motto in this chapter it's the false one of the theatre play, no "real" rape happen in this chapter, while in the show one innocent child (and acting like one, not like a provocant lolita) is supposed raped.

Had the showmakers wanted they could have made Arya take an older face, and then completely ignored the paedophilia aspect, while following book script, instead they decided to heavily insist on Trant's paedophilia (also finding there some occasion for a little sexposition from the older prostitutes).

MO in addition to shock value, D&D goal was some whitewashing of Arya , adding a real victim to the guy she is going to kill and probably making Arya answer a demand instead of her acting like an active seductress, so removing the problematic aspect of showing a young girl taking the initiative of offering sex to a grown man.

Personnally I've found the show a bit more disturbing, but considering the incredible number of occurences of the word "rape" in Mercy chapter, and some people like to consider westerosi ages with modern standards, let's say GRRM gave them half a good excuse this time.

[The Dragon Demands]

This happens in the books this way, just shifted to Meryn from Raff. And it's a plot point, keep watching.

[Borodin]

Everything in the show is "basically the same" as in the books as far as the show-militant are concerned.

[The Northern Scholar]

This happens in the books this way, just shifted to Meryn from Raff. And it's a plot point, keep watching.

But as others have shown, it doesn't really happen in the books. The situations are very, very different.

[Humble AK]

Except one is a well-written, morally ambiguous situation (the book). The other is a case, once again, of the show going so over the top to drive home a point that is cast in stark black and white terms. They could have implied Trant's predilections subtly, through a conversation with his friends. But the "too young, too young, too young, bring a fresh one," is gross and over the top. I get that they're trying to tap into Mercy, but they aren't doing it in a skillful or well-written way.

I liked Mercy, but I don't see how it's more 'morally ambiguous' and subtle (although we'll have to see the rest of the handles it to fully understand the differences).

Both the show and book established the target as a pedophile. Arya uses this angle to kill the target.

The book did not glamorize this. I don't see the show glamorizing it either. The show probably will make it more disturbing.

To that point, the show has on a constant basis made violence an unpleasant and disturbing thing. People confuse this with pure shock value. There's so much violence out there in the media that addresses the same content as GoT, but in a safer, more viewer friendly way that is one-dimensional and less honest.

I would argue that because GoT is willing to make its viewers uncomfortable, it is definitely smarter than the average show. And GoT treats violence seriously.

For example, when Shireen was burned at the stake, a lesser show would have made it the wife instead. A lesser show would have not have had the screams or the begging. A lesser show would have presented it's violence in safer, more friendly manner. GoT doesn't do that. When it presents horrifying things, it wants the viewers to be horrified, not just say, that was a fun fight scene. And based on the reactions it gets, it does a good job.

So I would say that GoT will handle this sequence well.

[FreeParking]

They didn't. Instead of your suggestion, the writers had two men yell a similar joke at Arya which suggested sexual assault.

So thanks D&D for that.

And when Arya was trying to get on the boat to go to Braavos one of the mates said he would share his bed with her for which the captain told him off or something. I also remember a scene in Braavos where someone talks to Arya about special kissing, meaning sucking cock. Did you praise D&D for cutting this stuff? Of course not. D&D are the shitty writers/perverts but never GRRM.

I don't really have much of a problem with Trant taking

Raf the Sweetling's

place in Arya's revenge-seeking. What I have a problem with is that Trant was in no way shown to be a pedophile until the plot needed him to be. It was just more hamfisted story telling and yet more "Writing by the seat of your pants". If they were going to do it this way then they could easily have established Trant's pedophilia a bit earlier :rolleyes:

I don't recall Raff being a pedo in the books prior to this either. Perhaps he was, and I just forgot it. To be honest I didn't even remember what Raff did, just that he was on her list.

[Lord Bronn Stokeworth]

The Mountain is "pretty much the same thing" as the Hulk, so I look forward to seeing the Hulk in Season 6.

You say that as a joke, but.... let's hope D&D aren't here to get ideas.

I don't get all the hate for this? It's ok to show rapes, decapatations, disembowelment, people burning to death, people being maples, people being hanged, people having their cocks cut off, but bring a pedophile into it and it's suddenly really bad?

It's less showing pedophilia rape (the look on the girl's face makes it clear she's not just doing her job) and more because it's unnecessary. It's one thing for pedophilia rape to serve the story. It's another to have pedophilia rape because you want to make things more shocking.

I don't really have much of a problem with Trant taking

Raf the Sweetling's

place in Arya's revenge-seeking. What I have a problem with is that Trant was in no way shown to be a pedophile until the plot needed him to be. It was just more hamfisted story telling and yet more "Writing by the seat of your pants". If they were going to do it this way then they could easily have established Trant's pedophilia a bit earlier :rolleyes:

Because that's what they do now that they are breaking free from the books. Trant isn't a pedophile until it serves the story. Stannis is a good father until ninjas attack his camp, then his first and only solution is murdering his child. Cersei has four children until they forgot to include said fourth child into the prophecy. Sansa was becoming a player until they needed to have her raped so we would care about the victim (because rape isn't horrible by itself or anything). Now she wants to become Ramsay (of course, considering how amazing and badass he is, how could anyone not want to be Ramsay?). Littlefinger's plan seems to be whatever the plot needs it to be. The Unsullied and Second Sons are pushovers now.

There is no longer internal consistancy. People do things because the plot needs it done and/or because it's shocking.

[Epikouros Martell]

I hear next season is going to feature a new villain, Ser Abbom Inayshyn.

He's a pedophile who eats children and kills puppies, but also has sex with animals and rapes old ladies. He's loosely based on an amalgam of lesser known George R.R. Martin's characters, so he's still faithful to the books. He is also vaguely medieval, so he is also authentic in terms of period. Ser Abbom advances no particular plot lines, in fact he is completely unnecessary, but he will feature in a series of shocking ratings-boosting scenes involving babies.

Show watchers are already applauding the new addition, stating things like "A Feast for Crows never had a wicked-awesome character like this!" Another loyal watcher had this to say: "George R.R. Martin is such a bad writer. Thank goodness we have HBO to deliver what Game of Thrones is really about!"

Ser Abbom Inashyn also has perfect breasts which will feature in every scene.

Now I'm really scared D&D could visit this forum and see your post. It might make sense for them creatively...

[Perfidious Algernon]

I don't recall Raff being a pedo in the books prior to this either. Perhaps he was, and I just forgot it. To be honest I didn't even remember what Raff did, just that he was on her list.

He's the guy that runs her friend through when he can't walk. I think he may have been one of the torturers at Harrenhal, too.

Maybe this is a delicate question, but I'm not sure I'd characterize him as a pedo in the books either. Arya's right around the (Planetosi) age of consent at this point in the books, and the Mercy chapter makes it pretty clear that he's not the only one who's starting to notice her.

[Borodin]

Now I'm really scared D&D could visit this forum and see your post. It might make sense for them creatively...

LOL!

[PyromancersPiss]

It's not just a matter of justifying his need to die, it's a matter of justifying Arya's disobedience to Jaqen H'ghar and the many-faced god.

She supposed to be letting her Arya-ness go, if she is to become faceless, she must become no one. Her personal vendetta gets in the way.

It's also about putting Arya in real danger, at risk of being recognized, or worse.

Thank you! It's nice to see someone else not whining!

Although altered from the books, I think both versions are building Arya's storyline up to a possible desertion from the faceless men. It seems as if she completes the training, she will completely forget her entire list. I don't think she'll finish the training. She wants revenge too much. But, if she does go AWOL on the faceless men... Will they hunt her down? I'm thinking yes. Arya's one of my fav's and I want to see the list fulfilled. But this whole faceless man scenario is worrying me.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this matter

[direpoodle]

I'm really glad I wasn't the only one profoundly disturbed by this.

Even though I have read the Mercy chapter in TWOW, I felt so disgusted by it.

It wasn't necessary to put it in the show. He's already enough of a bad guy for killing Syrio and abusing Sansa. I think the scene did go on for too long, and didn't contribute anything significant to the plot. Like many things this season, it's been put in to be shocking.

[FreeParking]

He's the guy that runs her friend through when he can't walk. I think he may have been one of the torturers at Harrenhal, too.

Maybe this is a delicate question, but I'm not sure I'd characterize him as a pedo in the books either. Arya's right around the (Planetosi) age of consent at this point in the books, and the Mercy chapter makes it pretty clear that he's not the only one who's starting to notice her.

Yeah, I ended up bringing Raff up on the Wiki to see what he did. Made his death more fulfilling after that, but for fuck's sake that was back in book two. How the hell was I supposed to remember that?

I seem to recall that the Lannister guards with him in the books also say something like "she is a child."

[direpoodle]

He's the guy that runs her friend through when he can't walk. I think he may have been one of the torturers at Harrenhal, too.

Maybe this is a delicate question, but I'm not sure I'd characterize him as a pedo in the books either. Arya's right around the (Planetosi) age of consent at this point in the books, and the Mercy chapter makes it pretty clear that he's not the only one who's starting to notice her.

Arya is 11 at this point in the story. He's still a pedophile.