Follmann Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 What, Mel burning things? She'd never do that. How Mel sees the world:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUhOnX8qt3I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeyne's Addiction Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Stannis was informed by his soldier that there were twenty men, so they were at least present. Still a good theory though. Would set up a nice confrontation if Stannis finds out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludo Kressh Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 That bothers me too...how did they know it was 20 men? Did they actually see anyone? The way those flames went up suggests that either they were super fast or Mel had a hand in it. Of course, they'll probably stick with Ramsay doing since he needs to be away from Winterfell to allow Sansa to escape(or try to escape). If it comes out that Mel had a hand in it, it could take a little of the sting away from Shireen's death since essentially Mel tricked Stannis into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeyne's Addiction Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 That bothers me too...how did they know it was 20 men? Did they actually see anyone? The way those flames went up suggests that either they were super fast or Mel had a hand in it. Of course, they'll probably stick with Ramsay doing since he needs to be away from Winterfell to allow Sansa to escape(or try to escape). If it comes out that Mel had a hand in it, it could take a little of the sting away from Shireen's death since essentially Mel tricked Stannis into it. They did say "or less" IIRC. It would have been nice to have actually seen them get spotted retreating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philpenn Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 You can see dark figures running around, but since they're not carrying torches they could just be Stannis' men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bronn Stokeworth Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 This would be a possibility if Ramsay was such a Villain Sue that the trope should be renamed in his honor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Deleted] Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 The question is, then, why does she want to burn Shireen so badly? If she has to manufacture a crisis to justify the action, why does she need the action in the first place? She just likes burning people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Swallower Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Maybe she wants to get rid of Stannis' heirs and/or family for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedViperHD Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Also I think the Mel actress said that this season that we see her be more human and making mistakes but as of yet we have seen the opposite so maybe there will be a Mel meddling reveal. I'm not sure she is that complicated of a character. I think the only way that Mel dies poetically after burning so many people alive is by being burned alive herself by a dragon. If that happens then she and maybe Stannis make it all the way to the end of these books/show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dndmn422 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 It would be nice if this was the case, but the show does not have the subtlety to do something like this. What you you see is what you get with this show. There is no hints, tricks or slight of hand. When they try to hint at R+L=J, they hit you over the head with it. When they try to make morally ambiguous characters, they fail. For better or worse the show is completely black and white, unless Mel specifically said to herself "Rhollor, burn this camp down" before the fires started, then there is no way this is the direction D&D are going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Hustle Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I doubt it if she burned the camp. I honestly thought it was a dream she was having. But obviously it was Ramsey and his men. One thing Mel is not is a blatant liar. She may be misguided by her visions, but she has always been truthful in her beliefs. Lets be honest, the only thing Mel burns are people. Burning tents and horses are for losers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eucratides_Megas Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Maybe she wants to get rid of Stannis' heirs and/or family for some reason. IDK, I think a Stannis Sansa marriage alliance is actually a possibility at this point in ShowWesteros. His wife will be legitimately pissed that she was kept from saving her little girl, and given her past record with fertility I don't see either of them regarding each other with any sort of healthy marital accord. Or maybe she'll be back to a frothing at the mouth lunatic next episode and her sudden concern for Shireen compared to Stannis was just one more middle-finger to fans of the character. They basically threw out one of the most original and fresh concepts in ASOIAF. People often go to great length explaining why they hate or love a certain character. I've written volumes on Stannis myself---so guilty I guess. But one unique thing about him is just how unlikely a hero he is in the realm of fiction. In any other fantasy story he would be at best a neutral character, but more likely a side antagonist, just one more problem for the plucky, young and idealistic heroes (Dany and Jon) to deal with. Except he isn't, he is actually growing into one of the more heroic defenders of Westeros "Cart before the horse...", shown that he rewards loyalty and has compassion "I will save your sister if I can....A true king pays his debts.." and is the most meritocratic lord in the series, raising Davos for his guts, intelligence and truthfulness...but more importantly because they're friends. By any hack writer's estimation Stannis has the makings of an antagonist: keeps a red priestess who practices blood and shadow magic, has a harsh personality and almost no friends, and isn't particularly attractive or mysterious. He's everyone's harsh but fair authority figure they love to bitch about behind his back, but at the end of the day he keeps the lights on and the machine working. No one pictures that person as a hero, in our minds he's always the antagonist. But GRRM found in him a hero, and let him become that hero "A righteous man..." A flawed hero with some dark moments, but a hero nonetheless. Maybe Shireen will burn in the books, but if she does I am convinced it will be with the fate of humanity at stake, and perhaps the fulfillment of a prophecy everyone is convinced doesn't apply to her aforementioned father....who knows? That would be an epic twist on audience expectations. In the end, I think D&D hurt themselves with this. When all is said and done, their show is lesser because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ennui Joi de vivre Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Mel seemed to have a look of intent, as the fires lit in a clock-work fashion.On first and second viewing It never had the look of 20 stealth firebugs.. Show-runner ambiguity, misdirection....2 seasons to sweep up the confetti that's been thrown. .We just don't have the time.I shake my fist at the whole mess. If Shireen came back as a Shade, wreaking vengeance, a mini LSH,I'd like to see her rip Mel's beating heart from her chest, tossing it to a passing dire-wolf.Her Father has no heart left. An appropriate retribution will be applied.His daughters dying screams, shrieking in his brain, for eternity, would be a nice start. snarl. , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fangirl000 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I wondered about this, too. And it would explain why none of Stannis' guards saw any intruders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eucratides_Megas Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I wondered about this, too. And it would explain why none of Stannis' guards saw any intruders. Yeah, as much as the burning itself is OOC in light of his Father of the Year cred given to him earlier in the season, another point that has been hammered home relentlessly is that Stannis is Duke of Marlborough levels of awesome when it comes to being a commander. EVERYONE says this in one form or another through the whole series. Now suddenly he's so incompetent that his sentries are awful, and he's hired no northern guides to help him get the lay of the land during his march? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosfan Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Remember that Stannis was still favourite to win before this raid, so why would Mel risk it when she could use (in theory) Shireen for something bigger than the Boltons (in the essence this sacrifice is to stop them) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Flow Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Stannis really shouldn't have tried to save money by buying tents AND horses that were made solely of sawdust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the silver queen Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I don't think so. The writers are usually straight-forward, like others said, if something is supposed to be secretive, they bang you over the head with it. But personally, I just didn't see the scene that way. I saw it as Mel seeing the fires taking over the camp in her vision fire seconds before they happened. Hence her shocked face after looking into the fire and then immediately going outside, where she is shocked to see the tents go up. She saw it in her fire visions beforehand, is what I saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerGuppy Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I saw it as Mel seeing the fires taking over the camp in her vision fire seconds before they happened. Hence her shocked face after looking into the fire and then immediately going outside, where she is shocked to see the tents go up. She saw it in her fire visions beforehand, is what I saw. Mel is the most useless soothsayer this side of "A red sun rises" Legolas. To be fair though, has there every been a soothsayer in literature that has helped anyone but themselves? Seems to me they always just screw things up, misinterpret, misdirect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowKitteh Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Maybe she wants to get rid of Stannis' heirs and/or family for some reason.Or, like Varys, Mel is in an even longer long-game, and isn't really on the Baratheon side at all, but is trying to exterminate their line from within. It would be awesome to see Ramsay never actually made it to Stannis's camp, but had to return to Winterfell only to say the roads were impassable due to snow. Then we'd know it was Mel.However, I doubt all that. I'm sure Ramsay did it. Now I just hope he freezes to death before he gets back to Winterfell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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