Hodor's Dragon Posted June 9, 2015 Author Share Posted June 9, 2015 I love the show, but regardless of the reasons, I found the CG poor in spots, and that made the sequence less enjoyable for me. There's really no solution because the scene is done and we are only left to move on.Also, I don't entirely think the budget was at fault. Hardhome also had a comparatively small budget and it worked. I think it's possible to direct around the hokier CG.That said, I think the rest of the criticisms are a little silly. Commenters here seem really certain about how people would behave if attacked by a fire breathing dragon in the midst of a battle. Being attacked by a fire-breathing dragon is one thing, having one fly overhead while a man with a sword who wants to kill you is in your face is another thing entirely. Have you ever been in a fight? Against somebody with a weapon? You don't turn your back on him ever. Pure survival instinct takes over. Turn your back and you die, right now, and that's much more immediate than that dragon flying overhead. The dragon might distract you momentarily, but really, you aren't going to turn your back on your opponent unless the dragon actually attacks. No how, no way, not ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borodin Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I love all these arm-chair-Unsullied claiming that they would stand and fight a frickin' dragon if it dropped into their backyard, all so they can defend a really bad scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannyk65 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I just wanna see Arya change her face already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caioesp Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 You do know that the plot requires a particular thing to happen to Jon now, and that Jon going to Hardhome to combat WW and zombies has basically eliminated any motive for that thing to happen. We got a cool scene at the cost of any consistency in the plot. If anything that gives more reason for stabbing Jon, he "abbandoned" the wall to save wildlings in the show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfidious Algernon Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 They really should have shown a shot of the Sons retreating after the dragon burned a sufficient number of them. Or more Unsullied arriving in the arena. Anything to explain why the Sons suddenly stopped attacking. The whole time she was mounting Drogon I was thinking 'aren't the sons still there? Why did they stop and give her time to get on him?' Yup. What we have here seems to be an editing issue. If you go back and rewatch, there are Harpies in the Pit when she gets on Drogon, but none at all a few seconds later for the Team Dany reaction shot. Just a lot of very exhausted looking Unsullied. We're missing a scene in the middle where the Harpies all run away, but it looks like the intention was for all of them to come down with a sudden case of "did not sign up to fight a mothertrucking dragon." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarksNTargs Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I love all these arm-chair-Unsullied claiming that they would stand and fight a frickin' dragon if it dropped into their backyard, all so they can defend a really bad scene. Dude.. Dragons aren't real. Unless you count the Komodo that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Mulder Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Yup. What we have here seems to be an editing issue. If you go back and rewatch, there are Harpies in the Pit when she gets on Drogon, but none at all a few seconds later for the Team Dany reaction shot. Just a lot of very exhausted looking Unsullied. We're missing a scene in the middle where the Harpies all run away, but it looks like the intention was for all of them to come down with a sudden case of "did not sign up to fight a mothertrucking dragon." Lol. They should have had an older harpy say I'm getting to old for this shit and toss his spear down and walk away. Honestly though this fight scene is pretty standard Hollwood fare and we just saw an example of this kind of stand Hollywood fight scene last episode. Its dumb yes but not unexpected or out of the ordinary for the show or television/movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueDragon Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Some of these critiques are valid, but I would attribute most of the scene's shortcomings to budget. D&D haven't made good choices this season, but Drogon's scene was done well enough. I do think a huge, fire breathing dragon is enough to make people forget what they are doing. However, why Dany doesn't have a much bigger protection squad eludes me. I am sure they had huge budget issues for a lot of reasons. Trying to cut the bloat out of this story is bound to create a set of unsolvable problems. I do think it is obvious that Drogon, while maturing, is still young. To have to take off while wounded with Dany on his back for the first time was quite believably a challenge. There were a lot of holes in him and the scene; however, Dany leaving everyone else behind in order to save Drogon is both believable and justifiable. I agree with whomever posted that the guys left on the ground had to be heaving a sigh of relief that they didn't have to protect her. The sons of the harpy are big time cowards, so it is believable that they would freeze. It is also believable that they would try to take out the dragon first as Drogon is the main impediment to getting at Dany. Not to mention that many of them might fear the magic Dany/Drogon represents enough to make them hesitate, especially when it appears that Drogon is there to rescue his mother. There are a lot of weak points in most episodes this season. They tried to do too much, too fast. D&D might just be tired and unable to digest the totality of the project. Although I am not fond of them, I don't think they want to sink their own project. There is simply too much material and too many complications in this narrative. I don't even care to check what is book canon versus show canon. It is all too tedious. I did notice one line lifted from "Troy" and dropped into the Stannis scene: the northerners know their land better than we ever will, etc. I think the totality of this narrative is just too much for any human being to sort through, with or without help. As a result, fans of book and show are reduced to writing their own versions in their individual heads. While this process is fascinating in itself, it remains hugely frustrating for all of us who are hooked on the story and/or characters. Waiting and waiting and waiting for resolution has made everyone with a certain level of investment reduced to arguing endlessly over trivia, thereby losing the woods for the trees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSumm Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I can't understand why they can make a dragon look fantastic, but a human woman who actually exists on the back of a dragon look terrible. The first shot of her flying off the image of Dany wasn't even staying level with Drogon, some of the worst effects we've seen so far.Did anyone else for a worrying moment think that when she closed her eyes, she was gonna try and telepathically summon Drogon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarksNTargs Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 You do know that the plot requires a particular thing to happen to Jon now, and that Jon going to Hardhome to combat WW and zombies has basically eliminated any motive for that thing to happen. We got a cool scene at the cost of any consistency in the plot. It would be silly for them to have Jon declare that he's leaving for Winterfell now, but I honestly think they'll be going in a different direction in the show. If they do have him declare that, after experiencing Hardhome, then I'll agree that the addition doesn't make sense. I mean, who could leave the Wall and take men with you when you just experienced that from the WW? I guess we'll have to wait and see. I think it more likely that John will be stabbed by Oly several times, he'll fall and you'll see people rushing over as the credit scene rolls. Later we'll see him in a bed barely hanging on to life, but he;ll eventually recover. That's honestly what's always been weird about what happens in ADwD. People assume it will take something magical to heal Jon when in fact he could very well survive naturally. I'm sure all of the wildings/dedicated NW members, etc didn't just stand there while those few kill him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Mulder Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Yup. What we have here seems to be an editing issue. If you go back and rewatch, there are Harpies in the Pit when she gets on Drogon, but none at all a few seconds later for the Team Dany reaction shot. Just a lot of very exhausted looking Unsullied. We're missing a scene in the middle where the Harpies all run away, but it looks like the intention was for all of them to come down with a sudden case of "did not sign up to fight a mothertrucking dragon." Lol. They should have had an older harpy say I'm getting to old for this shit and toss his spear down and walk away. Honestly though this fight scene is pretty standard Hollwood fare and we just saw an example of this kind of stand Hollywood fight scene last episode. Its dumb yes but not unexpected or out of the ordinary for the show or television/movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickStormborn Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Plot destroying? More like best addition EVER! GRRM probably wishes he'd have thought of it. I think it's pretty clear that GRRM is deliberately delaying a full-on confrontation with the Others until the end of the series. If he wanted a battle like Hardhome to take place, he would have written one in. He hasn't because that's not what he wants to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfidious Algernon Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Another thing I noticed on a rewatch: Dany needs to quit lying to herself and just rock that beehive hairdo she is so clearly flirting with. Gimme that and some thick-framed cateye glasses and I'll join Team Dany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borodin Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Dude.. Dragons aren't real. Unless you count the Komodo that is. We're talking about characters - their arcs and motivations. Sons of the Harpy are a bunch of former slave-owners who are slothy cowards untrained in combat. The idea that they would stand toe-to-toe like some seasoned warriors with a dragon who just appeared out of the blue is ridiculous. I was taken right out of the scene that I had just returned to after having been taking out of the scene by Jorah touching Daenerys (plot hole), and just before I was taken out of the scene by horrible FX. It was a terrible scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueDragon Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Did anyone else for a worrying moment think that when she closed her eyes, she was gonna try and telepathically summon Drogon? That is what I believed she was doing. Others have posted she was trying to get a moment of peace before being offed. Feeling him and/or summoning him, even if unconsciously makes more sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor's Dragon Posted June 9, 2015 Author Share Posted June 9, 2015 snip -> I do think a huge, fire breathing dragon is enough to make people forget what they are doing. However, why Dany doesn't have a much bigger protection squad eludes me. <- snip You know, I've said this a couple of times already, so probably I should just shut up, but I really have to say it one more time. And pardon my shouting, but a man who wants to kill you standing next to you with a sword HAS YOUR FULL ATTENTION! It really doesn't matter what else comes along, unless it is actively trying to kill you, too, and right now. If you turn your head away from that guy with the sword, you will be dead before the word "Wow" in "Wow, a dragon" escapes your lips. Instant death right now for turning your head. I can believe that 1 or 2 idiots might do that under the circumstance, but the whole fight stopped. That is complete and utter bull. As I said before, survival instinct takes over and you can't take your eyes off the guy who has a sword in your face. The only reason people would turn their head would be to haul ass, not to stand slack-jawed and look at the pretty dragon. Not only is it utter hogwash, but it destroyed the scene, because everything that followed only made sense if there was a fight going on. Which there wasn't, because everybody was stoned and staring at Drogon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarksNTargs Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I think it's pretty clear that GRRM is deliberately delaying a full-on confrontation with the Others until the end of the series. If he wanted a battle like Hardhome to take place, he would have written one in. He hasn't because that's not what he wants to do. GRRM already had a big battle with the Others that they didn't have the budget to shoot in the show. So, maybe the show was just making up for the lack of the Fist of the First Men battle. I know the battle happens in the show, but we just see the aftermath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannyk65 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I did notice one line lifted from "Troy" and dropped into the Stannis scene: the northerners know their land better than we ever will, etc. Good call! I knew I recognized that, and now it makes perfect sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarksNTargs Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 We're talking about characters - their arcs and motivations. Sons of the Harpy are a bunch of former slave-owners who are slothy cowards untrained in combat. The idea that they would stand toe-to-toe like some seasoned warriors with a dragon who just appeared out of the blue is ridiculous. I was taken right out of the scene that I had just returned to after having been taking out of the scene by Jorah touching Daenerys (plot hole), and just before I was taken out of the scene by horrible FX. It was a terrible scene. Agree to disagree? Opinions are awesome that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannyk65 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Dude.. Dragons aren't real. Unless you count the Komodo that is. What about Don 'The Dragon' Wilson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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