I'm sorry, but they really blew the Drogon scene (book spoilers)

[jugdesh258]

Just to prove that hating (or being disappointed with) the scene has nothing to do with book snobbery.

Lol... what I am so done with is this youtube review after about 3 minutes. Gads it is like sportscenter for GOT. Who is gonna watch this dreck for 45 minutes. Sum it up much quicker.

These guys are cowards anyway. If I hung in there they might have eventually had a discussion that Fans might want to listen. They just have to watse time prefacing conversation with phony concern over controversial issues

[SerRiley]

Drogon's back looked pretty uncomforatable. Did not look like there was space between the spikes for anyone to sit...

[Jon Snow Bengal]

To me 'side-saddle' means riding with both legs on one side of the saddle or bare back (have seen bare back side saddle but it's very rare).

She is 'astride' with both legs over his spine.

It amusing that Dany (or was it Emilia) does a very quick double take when she sees his spikey spine!

Like "I'm supposed throw my leg over that?!"

Twice you see her faux Dothraki 'riding breeches' and her boots, but she always wears those boots.

Wow! You're right! I just re-watched it (for the fourth time) and i didn't see her black trousers against the black of Drogons body. I only saw the white dress & assumed she was riding woosy two legs same side style. Okay well thats one less thing to be disappointed about ;-) Still disappointed in Karsi at Hardhome.

[HungLikeHodor]

Forgive me if anything I say has already been stated. I didn't read all 9 pages of the thread

Before the season started, I told my unsullied wife that when Drogon comes back, it is going to be awesome. Then he shows up in episode 2, and I was pissed. First of all, they blew the Drogon scene because they showed Drogon earlier in the season. Drogon should not have been seen until Episode 9. Second, Drogon is called The Winged Shadow!! He should not have been roaring to announce his presence. Imagine this: Dany and company are surrounded then suddenly a huge shadow is cast over the whole arena. Everyone looks up, and here is Drogon making his first appearance as a complete badass!! I also hated the runway exit.

Also think they dropped the ball by not having him torch Dany. That could just reiterate to the show audience that dragons cannot burn in case they wanted to use that for certain young man's resurrection

[Destiny's Warrior]

There is plenty they could of done with that scene, but I think with the budget they had they made best with it (Drogon). For a TV show you have to take your hat off.

I do agree with the complaints about the fight just seemingly stopping. I understand when Drogon flew in but when it kicks off again you'd expect some of them to be throwing some of them spears at Dany. Obviously not as dab handed as Mr Mormont.

[wolverine]

Problems with the scene.

1. Daenerys is virtually unprotected at a public event with tens of thousands of potential assassins.

2. Jorah McGreyscale touches Daenerys.

3. SotH surround Daenerys and then do some kind of shuffle dance for 10 minutes.

4. A massive dragon decends from the sky breathing fire and the SotH wait for it to land in order to engage it in combat rather than flee liek human beings do and plan for another day.

5. Daenerys' escape gives us the worst FX of the entire series thus far.

2. Do we know how contagious greyscale is?

[Daske]

There may have been a few issues or not, but that was still the best dragon so far put on the small screen (and better than 99% on the big screen).

(Apart from Idris the Dragon of course).

[RedViperHD]

The fighting-pit scene that aired Sunday night was my single most-looked-forward-to scene from the entire book series. My anticipation really climbed during season 4, episode 6, where Drogon's terrorizing a shepherd boy, snagging a goat, and soaring off over a nearby hill were splendidly rendered on screen. If they could nail a throwaway dragon moment like that, what would they do with one of the most iconic scenes in the series, a marvelous book action scene? I was expecting something even better than the dracarys scene, a scene that many observers such as yours truly thought was the best single scene the series has done so far.

As it turns out, the scene was decent but no better, and I'm sorry, a "decent" result from such a marvelously cinematic book scene can't be considered as anything other than disaster. What went wrong? Not everything, but quite a few things.

Given that it is never possible to include every subtlety from a book in a screen adaptation, the decision to turn Dany's escape from moral and psychological peril in the books into an escape from physical danger in the show was probably a smart adaptation. All the scene required was that Drogon be given a reason to rescue Dany from something, and physical peril from the Sons of the Harpy obviously fits the bill. But while the strategy may have been good, the execution was lacking on many levels.

The early part of the scene flowed well. Jorah's surprise spear throw kicked off the fight effectively, and the SOTHs appearing among the crowd was an ominous touch, although it was surprising to see them apparently randomly executing crowd members. But the pacing of the scene soon seemed odd. Daenerys and her entourage never seemed to be in a hurry to get anywhere - perhaps her costume was difficult to run in. But the reaction of the crowd to the sudden outbreak of mass murder was oddly muted, and tension was slow to build.

Things really began to go wrong, though, when the scene developed into a staredown, not a fight, although it worked at first. It was believable, or almost believable, that the SOTHs would hesitate to attempt a breakthrough of the Unsullied's spear wall, like a cavalry charge will sometimes pull up short of such a wall and mill around in front of it instead of pressing the attack. Although the attack by one or two at a time from a crowd of attackers is one of the oldest (and stalest) tricks in the film business, it kind of made sense under these standoff conditions, and the tension built as the scene dragged on with Dany and Missandei exchange terrified looks and holding hands.

So far, so good, and my anticipation was at a high level when we heard Drogon's call from over the wall. But then, instead of the action winding up to a fever pitch, it . . . just . . . stopped. Incredibly, all of the fighters involved in the staredown/standoff decided to stare at Drogon instead of continuing the fight. Folks, I'm sure a dragon flying overhead is mighty interesting - but nothing is as interesting as a man with a sword who wants to kill you who and is standing 12" away. Nevertheless, an entire line of SOTH actually turned their backs on Jorah and Daario--who did nothing about it! Hogwash!!!

In short, the fight completely stopped when Drogon appeared, and this is the most basic problem with the scene. There was nothing to distract from the somewhat clumsy technical elements of the scene: the knots of people standing around waiting to get set afire, the unwieldy dragon-headed flame cannon with its too-regular jet of flame, Drogon's awkward, waddling gait.

Instead, the SOTH appeared to be instantly neutralized when Drogon appeared, robbing the scene of all its urgency. Daenerys had time to walk forward, take her sweet time gazing into Drogon's eyes, and unhurriedly mount him, because she suddenly appeared to be in no danger at all. In fact, the way the scene played out left a very obvious question: why did Daenerys fly away? In the book, it was crystal clear that she had to get Drogon out of there, or he would be killed. In the show, there was no apparent danger, and in fact, the folks who were left behind were seen just staring her and Drogon down until they vanished out of sight, with apparently no SOTH-fighting business to be attended to at all.

What could've been done differently? A lot.

• Obviously, this scene didn't need a staredown, it needed a real fight, it needed action other than Drogon's own action to be going on while Drogon was making his move.

The good guys probably needed a larger perimeter, so there was room for Drogon to move around and spaces that were in the fight could be segregated from spaces that were outside the fight, and so that there could be an ongoing fight, with an ebb and flow to it, over whether the SOTH would breach the perimeter.

For example, Drogon could have appeared just when the perimeter was starting to collapse, and then, when the perimeter was re-established, Dany would have a safe approach to rescuing Drogon--or better yet, taming him with the whip when he started to get out of hand.

The producers shouldn't have been in such love with the flame cannon, which had to be deployed from the ground, but should have had at least some of Drogon's attacks come from the air.

Most importantly, there should have been a sense of urgency and danger throughout the entire scene, so that when Dany and Drogon fly off, you know they are escaping, instead of wondering why they abandoned their pals.

Even the danger and urgency of soaring off the ground on the back of a soaring, dipping and swirling beast without a saddle or anything in particular to hang onto was absent: Daenerys looked comfortable, like she was lying on her couch watching TV, instead of looking terrified, as she should have.

I'll give 'em a D- on this, and that feels generous. This was an awesome action scene in the books that could've just gone straight onto the screen: if you're going to change it around, it had better be good or you have nobody to blame but yourselves.

For starters, aren't dragons suppose to lay waste to entire armies? Why didn't drogon just toast all the Harpys? Great idea but poorly done. It all felt a little awkward and I was surprisingly disappointed in the animation after being pleasently surprised with the animation and effects in the Hardhome scene. Of course the difference is that with White Walkers you can use a real actor mixed with CGI but with a dragon, you're forced to use all CGI. That being said, even the other scene with the dragons earlier in the season looked better. And yes, the fight itself felt poorly directed and very awkward.

[HexMachina]

2. Do we know how contagious greyscale is?

Does Jorah? Would you really be willing to take the chance of infecting the woman you purport to love with a fatal disease?

[Dragon in the North]

Still plugging away?

The only unreal thing in the sequence isn't the pause in the fighting, it is that the Harpy don't run away.

The Harpy is Mereen's 1%. They specialize in cowardly knife attacks in dark alleys. They fight behind masks.

Getting soldiers to kill people on order is a very difficult task which is why training and discipline are so important. Without it they run away or fire in the air.

Typical fight or flight response. Some Harpies ran while others stayed and fought. It depends on the individual.

[boojam]

For starters, aren't dragons suppose to lay waste to entire armies? Why didn't drogon just toast all the Harpys? Great idea but poorly done. It all felt a little awkward and I was surprisingly disappointed in the animation after being pleasently surprised with the animation and effects in the Hardhome scene. Of course the difference is that with White Walkers you can use a real actor mixed with CGI but with a dragon, you're forced to use all CGI. That being said, even the other scene with the dragons earlier in the season looked better. And yes, the fight itself felt poorly directed and very awkward.

Drogon is not an adult yet, he will get very big when he gets older. Then he becomes a WMD.

[Grayven]

I was laughing through most of the scene.. if someone found it "dramatic", then they sure weren't watching at our house. In addition to all that has already been discussed.. it was also funny to watch the spectators in the arena several minutes after folks were getting their throats cut. For some reason, there was still a large contingent of people running back and forth without actually leaving. One guy ran past two exits, went down one row, and then turned around and ran back to the same place that he started from.

[TargSympathizer]

I agree that the action was very choppy with slow portions KILLING the flow of the scene.

I think the flaws here lie not with the writing (although a few details- like the harpies are now a legion instead of a guerrilla gang slowly pecking away at the giant force of unsullied in the books) but with directing and production.

My wishes/critiques:

1- Drogon should've been bigger. They showed him being similar in size when he's always been the bigger one, and now he's been out hunting in the wild. Making him bigger would set up...

2- in the books his entrance is signaled by his shadow cast upon everyone, not some whining scream in the distance. They could have had noise, commotion, fighting, then....shadow. Silence. Everyone looks up. Much better dramatic effect

3- NO CHANGE IN BUDGET to make Dany and Drogon scream "as one" when he gets hit with a spear

4-In the books, I never really felt like Drogon was in much danger. More like Mereen was in danger by pissing him off (people people screaming and running). He gets ONE spear lodged in him. (also missing opportunity for quicker flow: cut to shot of dragons blood hitting the sand and smoking, cut to dragons tail swooping and chopping someone in half, showing the spear half melted and/or red hot after being pulled from his wound, etc)

With more distance and chaos, Dany could've RUN to Big D instead of a conspicuous saunter in the middle of a battle.

5- I think it was important for Dany to have to TAME him with a whip and screaming NO. Now he's a pet.

Instead of an emerging Targaeryan controlling a powerful beast with her "fire made flesh", we have a girl helping her lizard escape those meanies with spears.

We all have our beef with changes (or rather watering/dumbing down) with the writing, my huge beef this week is with basic storyboarding. D- indeed.

[Borodin]

I was laughing through most of the scene.. if someone found it "dramatic", then they sure weren't watching at our house. In addition to all that has already been discussed.. it was also funny to watch the spectators in the arena several minutes after folks were getting their throats cut. For some reason, there was still a large contingent of people running back and forth without actually leaving. One guy ran past two exits, went down one row, and then turned around and ran back to the same place that he started from.

D&D know the ending.

[TargSympathizer]

sorry for the double post

[Nic.]

Yeah i thought it was really underwhelming overall. Also wish they had Drogon move around more than just stand there.

[Florina Laufeyson]

To those bitching about the Dany on his back special effects, i honestly think its a little difficult to animate something like that and it not look a little obviously fake. Its gonna look a little cheesy no matter how you cut the mustard. The only thing that could have helped make it not look too bad was to make her hair whip in the wind more and her dress needed to not be so goddamn white. It should have been torn at the bottom, and splattered with sand, dirt, and soot.

[RSasoiaf]

5- I think it was important for Dany to have to TAME him with a whip and screaming NO. Now he's a pet.

Instead of an emerging Targaeryan controlling a powerful beast with her "fire made flesh", we have a girl helping her lizard escape those meanies with spears.

Absolutely this!!!

And the wront already started early on.

She has had too much control over those dragons this season.

They are becoming pets which obey her whenever she wants them to.

A lot more "how to train your dragon"

Which is just wrong for Game of Thrones and specially wrong for Danny who has no idea what to do with those dragons.

Hell....it becomes a question why does she have them locked anyway???

It seems she just needs to be around them and tell them what to do. There, no problem.

[Nictarion]

Forgive me if anything I say has already been stated. I didn't read all 9 pages of the thread

Before the season started, I told my unsullied wife that when Drogon comes back, it is going to be awesome. Then he shows up in episode 2, and I was pissed. First of all, they blew the Drogon scene because they showed Drogon earlier in the season. Drogon should not have been seen until Episode 9. Second, Drogon is called The Winged Shadow!! He should not have been roaring to announce his presence. Imagine this: Dany and company are surrounded then suddenly a huge shadow is cast over the whole arena. Everyone looks up, and here is Drogon making his first appearance as a complete badass!! I also hated the runway exit.

Also think they dropped the ball by not having him torch Dany. That could just reiterate to the show audience that dragons cannot burn in case they wanted to use that for certain young man's resurrection

Targaryens being fireproof is a common misconception. They're not. Dany surviving the pyre was described by GRRM as miraculous. She ducked under Drogon's flame in the book. All that was burned was her hair (and her hands from grabbing the spear out of Drogon).

[Vee Stark]

CerseiStark,

I loved the scene, but it was not incredibly faithful to the book. Really the only similarities were Dany pulling the spear out, and flying away with Drogon. I thought the scene was great, but it was much better in the book.

Agree!