Bloodraven's Freedom

[DarkSister1001]

perhaps because theyre "dead," theyre unwargable, or even undetectable. perhaps only that with life, is capable of being warged. this throws a monkeywrench into the whole coldhands concept everyone loves to think about

Maybe. Just seemed weird that the dude with eyes on everyone didn't see or notice, or did and didn't warn anyone.

[Blazfemur]

Right? there has to be a technicality we're missing

[DarkSister1001]

Right? there has to be a technicality we're missing

Agreed.

[The Dames do Moan]

Since we know that once you warg into your host for your second life, your brain mixes with your host. So I know we all think it's BR, but is it really?

What if there is some historical figure, maybe the "great other" maybe the NK, maybe there the same, or maybe it's really just some wilding. But what if they just keep leading wargs to the cave so they can continually "second life" into them and Bran is just next in line.

[The Mother of The Others]

uh, what about the dead walked into a snowdrift 20 miles away and kept walking underneath the snow to arrive at the cave unseen?

they hunt like crocodiles at the watering hole, only with snow.

for people who expect BloodRaven & the Children to be evil:

did your family make you water a bunch of houseplants and tend to their garden as a kid and you complained until your dad snuck a tomato worm into your hair and that bad experience has turned you against Plant People in literature?

[Dire Dawg]

It an interesting theory, but why would BR have to have Bran come into the cave? He supposedly can warg animals outside the cave, why not other wargs?

[Blazfemur]

It an interesting theory, but why would BR have to have Bran come into the cave? He supposedly can warg animals outside the cave, why not other wargs?

to create a possible (unconfirmed) loophole. if a warg wargs a non-warg, when their host-body dies, theyre forever imprisoned in their new subject host, correct? thus, if bloodraven warged a bird, flew out of the cave, and his body dies (or as i would have you think, is already dead), then Bloodraven would forever be chained within that bird, right? Per the Varamyr prologue we got?

However, it's never stated if a warg, wargs, another warg. Perhaps the reason why Varamyr was trapped in that body, was becausethat body wasnt capable of warging.

The idea is, if Bloodraven inhabits Bran, and his body is already dead or deceased, Bran as a living vessel could take Bloodraven over the dead barrier, and then Bloodraven could use Bran's warging ability to escape a 2nd time.

Using this logic, Bloodraven would move to a separate third entity where he'd be chained forever, unless, that being, too, was a warg.

Dont get me wrong this is all crackpot and insane, but it's an alternative to being trapped in a body forever. Maybe, they were trapped, because the subject they inhabited, wasnt a warg.

[Blazfemur]

THAT, would be the reason to contact Bran. For his abilities. Perhaps too, for his First Men blood to some extent

[Wavey Sauce]

Bran isnt doing anything other than warging a dragon somehow at some point

[Blazfemur]

Bran isnt doing anything other than warging a dragon somehow at some point

im thinking a dragon, wargs bran ;)

[Sly Wren]

to create a possible (unconfirmed) loophole. if a warg wargs a non-warg, when their host-body dies, theyre forever imprisoned in their new subject host, correct? thus, if bloodraven warged a bird, flew out of the cave, and his body dies (or as i would have you think, is already dead), then Bloodraven would forever be chained within that bird, right? Per the Varamyr prologue we got?

However, it's never stated if a warg, wargs, another warg. Perhaps the reason why Varamyr was trapped in that body, was becausethat body wasnt capable of warging.

The idea is, if Bloodraven inhabits Bran, and his body is already dead or deceased, Bran as a living vessel could take Bloodraven over the dead barrier, and then Bloodraven could use Bran's warging ability to escape a 2nd time.

Using this logic, Bloodraven would move to a separate third entity where he'd be chained forever, unless, that being, too, was a warg.

Dont get me wrong this is all crackpot and insane, but it's an alternative to being trapped in a body forever. Maybe, they were trapped, because the subject they inhabited, wasnt a warg.

And, continuing to use this logic, BR would want Bran in the cave because it is easier to warg wolves and dogs, presumably because you have a relationship with them. If BR can form a relationship with a warg who has a relationship with the wolf he wargs, would be easier to eventually both warg Bran and warg Summer from Bran. Thus--may be easier for BR to do this if gets Bran to trust him first.

I haven't slept it days--this and your argument make sense to me--that can't be good.

[Blazfemur]

And, continuing to use this logic, BR would want Bran in the cave because it is easier to warg wolves and dogs, presumably because you have a relationship with them. If BR can form a relationship with a warg who has a relationship with the wolf he wargs, would be easier to eventually both warg Bran and warg Summer from Bran. Thus--may be easier for BR to do this if gets Bran to trust him first.

I haven't slept it days--this and your argument make sense to me--that can't be good.

but remember though: Bloodraven's host body is dead. in order to keep the chain going he would have to go

warg-->warg-->warg and so forth.

if he goes, bloodraven-->bran-->summer, summer has no inherant warging ability, the chain ends, and bloodraven is trapped in summer's body. the ability to warg, would be a "push" to the next host, because bloodravens initial body has died.

you know what i mean?

the minute that spirit wargs something that CANT warg, he's stopped there until death

[Dire Dawg]

SNIP

I get the whole having to warg a warg to be able to get out and live forever, do evil deeds, etc.

What I don't understand is why the warg has to be in the cave. I think that BR is warging plenty of creatures outside the cave like Mormont's raven, so why the limitation on warging of the warg?

Now maybe Sly Wren is right and if you are going to warg a human there has to be some trust involved as with Bran and Hodor (the only successful human warging we know of).

[ilikethesebooks]

I think that's the point. It's the original bran not BR and he keeps it up

[Blazfemur]

I get the whole having to warg a warg to be able to get out and live forever, do evil deeds, etc.

What I don't understand is why the warg has to be in the cave. I think that BR is warging plenty of creatures outside the cave like Mormont's raven, so why the limitation on warging of the warg?

Now maybe Sly Wren is right and if you are going to warg a human there has to be some trust involved as with Bran and Hodor (the only successful human warging we know of).

limitations for ability, "reach," im still not FULLY convinced mormonts raven is in fact bloodraven. it certainly COULD be and probably is, but again, a bird and a human arent the same.

lets say mormonts raven IS warged by bloodraven. bloodraven cant go from, bird to nights watch brother. it doesnt work like that. the transition, is, bloodraven, to bird, back to bloodraven, forward to whomever. becausxe the bird isnt a warg, bloodraven would have to retract back to his host self, before initiating another warg (because the bird, cant).

now, if he were to warg, a warg, is it so impossible to manipulate that particular wargs abilities to "push" himself into the next being?

thats the whole thing

[Dire Dawg]

limitations for ability, "reach," im still not FULLY convinced mormonts raven is in fact bloodraven. it certainly COULD be and probably is, but again, a bird and a human arent the same.

lets say mormonts raven IS warged by bloodraven. bloodraven cant go from, bird to nights watch brother. it doesnt work like that. the transition, is, bloodraven, to bird, back to bloodraven, forward to whomever. becausxe the bird isnt a warg, bloodraven would have to retract back to his host self, before initiating another warg (because the bird, cant).

now, if he were to warg, a warg, is it so impossible to manipulate that particular wargs abilities to "push" himself into the next being?

thats the whole thing

OK so you are assuming a distance limitation on warging, or perhaps it has something to do with the cave's protective field. That is why BR cannot warg into another warg at a distance like V6 or some other wildling skinchanger.

Here is something else I just thought of, maybe he needs practice warging into a human, and that is where Jojen has gotten to. The CotF have been keeping Jojen locked up somewhere while BR practices his human warging, keeping him sedate as they drain blood out of him for Bran's supper. Once he feels confident he can trick Bran with an "initiation right" take him grab Hodor and make it out of the cave.

Like I said interesting theory.

[Blazfemur]

OK so you are assuming a distance limitation on warging, or perhaps it has something to do with the cave's protective field. That is why BR cannot warg into another warg at a distance like V6 or some other wildling skinchanger.

Here is something else I just thought of, maybe he needs practice warging into a human, and that is where Jojen has gotten to. The CotF have been keeping Jojen locked up somewhere while BR practices his human warging, keeping him sedate as they drain blood out of him for Bran's supper. Once he feels confident he can trick Bran with an "initiation right" take him grab Hodor and make it out of the cave.

Like I said interesting theory.

with any luck we have less than a year until book 6 (didnt he "promise" it'd be out before season 6 of GoT?)

[Sly Wren]

but remember though: Bloodraven's host body is dead. in order to keep the chain going he would have to go

warg-->warg-->warg and so forth.

if he goes, bloodraven-->bran-->summer, summer has no inherant warging ability, the chain ends, and bloodraven is trapped in summer's body. the ability to warg, would be a "push" to the next host, because bloodravens initial body has died.

you know what i mean?

the minute that spirit wargs something that CANT warg, he's stopped there until death

Ah, yes. Knew I shouldn't be theorizing without sleep. Relationship with Bran the wolf boy might still help . . .

[plectrum]

Bloodraven's warg abilities haven't required him to be physically close to his host before this. Am I missing something?

[Night's_King666]

on first thought, without taking anything into consideration, i think theyre guarding him to keep him sealed. that someone made it in, and could jeopardize his being there, is a blasphemy in of itself.

Makes sense, isolated him and they know where he is, although the CoTF can kick some ass if they want to.