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Theory- Shireen is still alive- Selyse dead! Book Spoilers


atxjacob

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We all know that Melisandre is powerful in her own right, but her chapters in ASOIAF give us insight that she also relies on a "bag of tricks" of sorts. Use of powders and potions, and specifically the use of a gem that helped mask Mance Rayder as Rattlershirt. I myself was hoping that HBO would have some scenes from her perspective this season to treat viewers to some of what she literally has up her sleeve.

We also know that Davos is entirely dedicated the Shireen, especially from the show's perspective, and I have a hard time believing that if he had any suspicion that she was in harm's way that he would have stood up to Stannis with more than just suggesting that he take Shireen back to castle black. He would speak his mind, rescue her, or try something..anything! He was way too passive for me not to suspect ulterior motives.

In the books, Melisandre told John Snow that the bones Mance Rayder wore, combined with her stone, made people believe that he was Rattleshirt. People see what they expect to see.

Davos curiously crafted an ornate stag for Shireen right before he left, and his avoidance of the red lady throughout their march south of the wall leads me to believe (or maybe just hope) that Shireen's death is all a ruse. He and Melisandre are both working on together secretly to rally the troops so to speak, with tricks of the eye and the use some dark magic.

Shireen was burned with the stag in her hand, watch the tape, she has it the whole time. Just like Mance Rayder wears the bones. It gives an impression, then people see what they want to see. What if Stannis put his wife to a verbal test, and she said that they should sacrifice their only living child. Coming to his senses and realizing that his wife has the heart of a monster, maybe he switched Selyse with Shireen and gave his daughter's stag to her to hold (which had also been given special powers by the red lady).

HBO is constantly molding stories together with different characters... what if this is a case of them showcasing Melisandre's powers in the season finale while also pulling a great bait and switch on the audience? Instead of keeping Mance alive, they do the story line with Shireen.

If sacrificing a princess has power....wouldn't it stand to be that sacrificing a Queen has even more power? He keeps his only heir alive and get the powers of the sacrifice to help his army win the battle.

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i really would love this, since shireen is a character very deer (sorry, had to) to me. but it's the king's blood that does the trick, isn't it? selyse wouldn't have that, but it might please r'hllor anyway, because it was a person who was important to the king.


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no, shireen died an extremely painful death in the fire. she is dead. davos stag burned to ashes and davos himself went to castle black as ordered. thats how it is, thats all to it. nothing magical, nothing special. stannis is just a pathetic douche who may be skinned when melissandre switches sides and finds a new home with the boltons.


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We all know that Melisandre is powerful in her own right, but her chapters in ASOIAF give us insight that she also relies on a "bag of tricks" of sorts. Use of powders and potions, and specifically the use of a gem that helped mask Mance Rayder as Rattlershirt. I myself was hoping that HBO would have some scenes from her perspective this season to treat viewers to some of what she literally has up her sleeve.

We also know that Davos is entirely dedicated the Shireen, especially from the show's perspective, and I have a hard time believing that if he had any suspicion that she was in harm's way that he would have stood up to Stannis with more than just suggesting that he take Shireen back to castle black. He would speak his mind, rescue her, or try something..anything! He was way too passive for me not to suspect ulterior motives.

In the books, Melisandre told John Snow that the bones Mance Rayder wore, combined with her stone, made people believe that he was Rattleshirt. People see what they expect to see.

Davos curiously crafted an ornate stag for Shireen right before he left, and his avoidance of the red lady throughout their march south of the wall leads me to believe (or maybe just hope) that Shireen's death is all a ruse. He and Melisandre are both working on together secretly to rally the troops so to speak, with tricks of the eye and the use some dark magic.

Shireen was burned with the stag in her hand, watch the tape, she has it the whole time. Just like Mance Rayder wears the bones. It gives an impression, then people see what they want to see. What if Stannis put his wife to a verbal test, and she said that they should sacrifice their only living child. Coming to his senses and realizing that his wife has the heart of a monster, maybe he switched Selyse with Shireen and gave his daughter's stag to her to hold (which had also been given special powers by the red lady).

HBO is constantly molding stories together with different characters... what if this is a case of them showcasing Melisandre's powers in the season finale while also pulling a great bait and switch on the audience? Instead of keeping Mance alive, they do the story line with Shireen.

If sacrificing a princess has power....wouldn't it stand to be that sacrificing a Queen has even more power? He keeps his only heir alive and get the powers of the sacrifice to help his army win the battle.

i like the idea but i think D&D have just rogered us with a red hot poker on this one

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I was hoping he would have a change of heart, pull out his sword to try kill her and it burst into flames. A trick by Mel ultimately but it would have made the scene better.



According to George's blog he hasn't even wrote this scene yet. Who knows what actually happens, does that mean Stannis now survives way into TWOW or even ADOS.


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I highly doubt this.



The books did pull a surprise making Mel seem like a much purer character internally than most of us imagined. And so if she plays a bigger part as a hero in the books and the show this change would make it possible.



But really, I think this is wishful thinking.


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If it were Selyse, she wouldn't have been screaming "Mother!" and "Father!" and such. In the books as Rattleshirt begins to burn, he starts yelling that he isn't the king and a few other things that are super uncharacteristic of Mance. All a glamour does is change the appearance of an individual to others; it does not inherently change their personalities, thoughts, or actions.



So for that reason, sad as it may be, it has to be Shireen (IMO).


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No one other than Shireen and Davos knew about the stag. So anyone watching, wouldn't know to associate the stag with Shireen, and therefore wouldn't "see what they want to see" because they wouldn't know what they wanted to see since the stag isn't familiar.



Shireen is dead.


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I realize this was a hard pill to swallow, but no...she is dead. :frown5:





According to George's blog he hasn't even wrote this scene yet. Who knows what actually happens, does that mean Stannis now survives way into TWOW or even ADOS.





I looked through his blog, did I miss something? Where did he say this?

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... and then Ned, Robb, and King Rob step out from behind a tree to shake a finger at naughty Cersei... "THIS is why you don't sleep with your brother." Montage of flash-backs showing that every single death was part of an elaborately staged punking of Cersei... (Except for Renly who actually choked to death on a Peach-pit.) Freeze-frame, 'It's in the Way That You Use It' by Eric Clapton plays over credits.


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