Mychel_Redfort Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Besides, how can they keep the gates closed for so long anyhow? How are the merchants and farmers going to get back once they have delivered their goods to the markets? Two of the seven gates are not closed, but heavily guarded : Those who were allowed to leave left by the King's Gate or the Iron Gate, but Lannister men-at-arms in crimson cloaks and lion-crested helms manned the guard posts there. Spying down from the roof of an inn by the King's Gate, Arya saw them searching wagons and carriages, forcing riders to open their saddlebags, and questioning everyone who tried to pass on foot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gomagoti Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 who has warged Mormont's annoying raven? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Rose Crown Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Wait, I'm really confused about Lysa and the maiscarriage/abortion. I thought Tansy was a person, doesn't she show up in a later chapter? She's a whore in an inn, I think. So LF gets drunk and sleeps with lysa (who he thinks is cat). He duels Brandon for cat's hand and then lysa finds out she's pregnant. When LF feels better, hoster finds out (maybe they tell him) lysa is pregnant. Hoster slips her moon tea without her knowing (like jeyne's mother did to keep her from getting pregnant with Robb's child). She miscarries, hoster has tansy come to help (maybe he is sleeping with her since his wife is dead). LF is sent away. Lysa marries Jon arryn and loses all her joy because cat gets to have a baby and hoster took away/killed lysa's baby.Does this not work with the timeline? I admit, I am terrible with the dates in the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuvuuia Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I'd say, yes, the story would be known, wouln't it? And no, Dunk did not actually cause the trial. He played a very important role in rescuing the innocent from government violence, which eventually culminated in the trial and the death of Prince Baelor.Prince Aerion is the one to blame, if I was being asked. I would not say it was widely known, but it wasnt a secret eitherThe Mystery Knight In addition, IIRC, Maester Yandel mentions it in his book, so it's not that much of a secret.. Whether the common people know, I can't say.. Thanks, everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Rose Crown Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 If a man is married and takes the black, is his wife considered a widow or is the marriage annulled? So can she keep the same last name and is she free to marry again? Or is she still considered married? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dire Dawg Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 who has warged Mormont's annoying raven? The Three-eyed-crow/Bloodraven seems to be the best candidate so far, if he is being warged. Not everyone agrees that he is being warged. The best evidence I have read is that the Raven says "Burn" when LC Mormont is being attacked by the wight in CB, and Jon burns it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Wait, I'm really confused about Lysa and the maiscarriage/abortion. I thought Tansy was a person, doesn't she show up in a later chapter? She's a whore in an inn, I think. So LF gets drunk and sleeps with lysa (who he thinks is cat). He duels Brandon for cat's hand and then lysa finds out she's pregnant. When LF feels better, hoster finds out (maybe they tell him) lysa is pregnant. Hoster slips her moon tea without her knowing (like jeyne's mother did to keep her from getting pregnant with Robb's child). She miscarries, hoster has tansy come to help (maybe he is sleeping with her since his wife is dead). LF is sent away. Lysa marries Jon arryn and loses all her joy because cat gets to have a baby and hoster took away/killed lysa's baby.Does this not work with the timeline? I admit, I am terrible with the dates in the book.LF gets drunk and sleeps with Lysa, who he believes to be Cat. IIRC, this was because of LF learning of Catelyns betrothal (the same night Lords Bracken and Blackwood came to lay a dispute in front of Hoster).Nothing happens...When Brandon comes to Riverrun, and a wedding date is established, LF challanges Brandon for Cats hand. Brandon accepts, duels LF, wounds LF, and leaves, promising Cat they will marry when he returns.LF is wounded, and taken care of by Lysa. He remains for a fortnight at Riverrun after the duel, and sleeps with Lysa during this time (causing him to believe he slept with both sisters, as he'd later claim, instead of realising he slept with Lysa twice.).This is the encounter that leaves Lysa pregnant. Lysa, in love with LF for years, tells Hoster she is pregnant in the hopes of beig allower to marry LF, but Hoster responds by giving her moon tea (or, at the very least, a drink containing the necessary ingredients). Hosters guilt about 'tansy' suggest that the amount of tansy used was too much, because Lysa 'nearly dies' of it.Hoster connects tansy with blood and Lysa, IIRC, which heavily implies that he's not talking about a whore whom we can't even be certain of he ever met.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Rose Crown Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I forgot lysa helped LF during his recovery. That makes sense, thanks. The placement of Tansy as a minor character shortly after the chapter with hoster and cat seems too coincidental. But I can't see what connection they could realistically have.Does hoster say the baby is dead? That means she was pretty far along. Anything before 20 weeks is technically considered a miscarriage, not a stillbirth. So maybe he waited until a marriage was arranged to give her the moontea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I forgot lysa helped LF during his recovery. That makes sense, thanks. The placement of Tansy as a minor character shortly after the chapter with hoster and cat seems too coincidental. But I can't see what connection they could realistically have.Does hoster say the baby is dead? That means she was pretty far along. Anything before 20 weeks is technically considered a miscarriage, not a stillbirth. So maybe he waited until a marriage was arranged to give her the moontea.Lord Hoster groaned. "Dead," his hand groped for hers. " You'll have others... sweetbabes and trueborn" "Forgive me" he said so softly she could scarcely hear the words. "Tansy.... blood... the blood... gods be kind..."--aSoS Catelyn I. I would have given you a son too but they murdered him with moon tea, with tansy and mint and wormwood, a spoon of honey and a drop of pennyroyal.---Lysa to Littlefinger.aSoS Sansa VII Catelyn I --states that the only time Lysa could have miscarried when Lord Hoster was at hand to comfort her was after the wedding. Whis is why I asked: Did Lysa take moon tea after her wedding?--- it does not seem like such a small question anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Whis is why I asked: Did Lysa take moon tea after her wedding?There is nothing that suggests that she did. The conception of her child by LF would have been months before (4 to 5 would be my estimation). She would have been visibly pregnant by then, and for her bedding ceremony, she would have been stripped naked, where all men could have seen her pregnant belly..None did. And neither did Cat, for that matter.Hoster needed to be able to present Lysa as a marriage candidate, and her being visibly pregnant would ruin that forever. The fact the conception and the moment of Lusa's betrothal are so far apart, would also be a strong hint... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 There is nothing that suggests that she did. The conception of her child by LF would have been months before (4 to 5 would be my estimation). She would have been visibly pregnant by then, and for her bedding ceremony, she would have been stripped naked, where all men could have seen her pregnant belly..None did. And neither did Cat, for that matter.Hoster needed to be able to present Lysa as a marriage candidate, and her being visibly pregnant would ruin that forever.The fact the conception and the moment of Lusa's betrothal are so far apart, would also be a strong hint...aSoS Catelyn I states that the only time Hoster was on hand to comfort Lysa after she lost a child following her marriage. aSos Sansa VII shows the miscarriage that Hoster was mumbling about was the abortion of Littlefingers son. http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/130945-did-lysa-take-her-moon-tea-after-she-was-married/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allyria Winterborn Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Just because Catelyn doesn't remember Hoster comforting Lysa except after the marriage, it doesn't mean it didn't happen. The way I see it, the most logical way this could have happened is: - Lysa gets pregnant by LF and her father gives her tansy, causing an abortion. Cat doesn't know about this, since it was very shameful, so Hoster made sure no one knew about it. Later, Lysa and Hoster mention her "son", but technically they probably didn't even know the baby's sex, since it was aborted early enough so that no one figured out she was pregnant. It was a patriarchal society and everyone wanted to have sons, not daughters, so it was probably wishful thinking when Lysa says "I would have given you a son, but they killed him", or Hoster says "You will have other sons". - LATER, Lysa gets married to Jon Arryn. Hoster reveals to him that she is not a virgin and that she had been pregnant, but Jon agrees to marry her anyway, because the rebellion needs the Tullys and because at least he knows Lysa is fertile. - after the marriage, Cat and Lysa both think they are pregnant (by their husbands), but Lysa turns out not to be/maybe has a miscarriage. Cat notices Lysa is sad. She was probably still depressed over losing LF's baby and over realising that the violent abortion her father caused had affected her ability to bear children (thus the miscarriage). Knowing Lysa, she was probably also jealous because Cat was pregnant and she wasn't, thus her depression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Rose Crown Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 aSoS Catelyn I states that the only time Hoster was on hand to comfort Lysa after she lost a child following her marriage. aSos Sansa VII shows the miscarriage that Hoster was mumbling about was the abortion of Littlefingers son. http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/130945-did-lysa-take-her-moon-tea-after-she-was-married/ but she thinks that was the only time because she doesn't consider that lysa was pregnant with a bastard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dames do Moan Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Does anyone have much info on the founding of the Nights Watch? I know a lot of the records were destroyed, damn NK, can't remember if there were quotes regarding the origin throughout the books or TWoIaF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 aSoS Catelyn I states that the only time Hoster was on hand to comfort Lysa after she lost a child following her marriage. aSos Sansa VII shows the miscarriage that Hoster was mumbling about was the abortion of Littlefingers son. http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/130945-did-lysa-take-her-moon-tea-after-she-was-married/And how is Catelyn to conclude anything else? As far as she knew, Lysa was still a virgin upon her marriage..You haven't responded to any of the counter arguments I posted, btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 The Dame That Groans, we do not really know anything from that early on for sure. There are legends, like Bran the Builder built the wall with help from cotf and giants, there are legends of the last hero finding the cotf to fight the others, and the wall being built just after the long night ended, but none of us can say for sure what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystickristoff Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Was there a Braavosi waterdancer swordsman at the Meerenese Fighting Pits (or any fighting pit) in the books just like there was in Season 5 Episode 9? What was the name of the Braavosi ship captain that brought Arya to Braavos, in the books? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dames do Moan Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 The Dame That Groans, we do not really know anything from that early on for sure. There are legends, like Bran the Builder built the wall with help from cotf and giants, there are legends of the last hero finding the cotf to fight the others, and the wall being built just after the long night ended, but none of us can say for sure what happened.Thanks, wasn't sure if there were any portions in the text of characters mentioning the origins. I know all official records were post-13th LC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dames do Moan Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Was there a Braavosi waterdancer swordsman at the Meerenese Fighting Pits (or any fighting pit) in the books just like there was in Season 5 Episode 9? What was the name of the Braavosi ship captain that brought Arya to Braavos, in the books?The Titans Daughter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allyria Winterborn Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 The Titans Daughter That was the ship's name. The captain was called Ternesio Terys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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