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Small Questions v.10101


Jon Weirgaryen

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If Houses that keep the Faith use maesters and septas to educate their children, who teaches the offspring of Houses that keep the Old Gods?

There are maesters in both Winterfell (Luwin) and the the Boltons brought at least two maesters with them when they took Winterfell, and both the Starks and Boltons keep to the Old Gods. I don't think the maesters necessarily have a religious aspect to them. There was a Septa at Winterfell, but she was brought up for Cat since she keeps to the seven.

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There are maesters in both Winterfell (Luwin) and the the Boltons brought at least two maesters with them when they took Winterfell, and both the Starks and Boltons keep to the Old Gods. I don't think the maesters necessarily have a religious aspect to them. There was a Septa at Winterfell, but she was brought up for Cat since she keeps to the seven.

Maybe gals like Old Nan?
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Re-reading The Mystery Knight, can't figure out when it takes place in relation to The Sworn Sword.

The narrative makes it seem like only a few weeks have passed. Is that right?

No, they've been to Dorne and Oldtown in between. And isn't Eggtwo years older? I believe The Sworn Sword takes place about 18 months to 2 years later. The Myster Knight follows more closely.
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No, they've been to Dorne and Oldtown in between. And isn't Eggtwo years older? I believe The Sworn Sword takes place about 18 months to 2 years later. The Myster Knight follows more closely.

That's from The Hedge Knight to The Sword Sword. I'm asking about the time between the 2nd and 3rd Dunk and Egg stories.

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That's from The Hedge Knight to The Sword Sword. I'm asking about the time between the 2nd and 3rd Dunk and Egg stories.

Per the wiki. We do not know if these occur early or late in the year. Also, we are not given exact weeks or months between events.

Egg was born = 200AC.

Tourney at Ashford Meadows = 209AC

Coldmoat disturbance = less than 2 years after Ashford

Tourney at Whitewalls = 212AC

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That's from The Hedge Knight to The Sword Sword. I'm asking about the time between the 2nd and 3rd Dunk and Egg stories.

My bad. Yeah the Mystery Knight follows within a year I think since he's ten in both IIRC.
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Anyone know the rules for bastards? Is it conceived out of wedlock or born out of wedlock? I know when bronn marries lollys, he tells tyrion he will get her pregnant with one of his kids and implies the baby will be a bastard, but could be claim it if he wanted to? Would it be different if he were the biological father?

Brought to you by the bastard name thread.

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Anyone know the rules for bastards? Is it conceived out of wedlock or born out of wedlock? I know when bronn marries lollys, he tells tyrion he will get her pregnant with one of his kids and implies the baby will be a bastard, but could be claim it if he wanted to? Would it be different if he were the biological father?

No, the bastard was the baby that Lollys was carrying at that moment, the result of the rape. If Bronn conceived a child with Lollys after he married her, that child would obviously not be a bastard.

I don't remember any exact rules to be stated in the books, but I think we should guide ourselves after common sense:

- if the baby is born at least 6-7 months after the marriage, so that it could be believed that it was conceived after the wedding, then it would be a legitimate baby;

- if the baby is born too soon after the wedding, or if is already known that the husband is not the father (as in Lollys' case), then it is a bastard.

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If Houses that keep the Faith use maesters and septas to educate their children, who teaches the offspring of Houses that keep the Old Gods?

There's a saying (of supposedly African origin) that goes: It takes a whole village to educate a child.

In a thouroughly religious society, religion may be picked up by the early learning of watching and imitating and replaying/roleplaying that children do. Children will ask questions, and go asking mom and dad and aunt and uncle and the neighbor's grandpa and so on.

In the Stark children's case there were a septon, a maester and old Nan, too, as in above answers, but of course not all people were raised in castles.

eta:

- if the baby is born at least 6-7 months after the marriage, so that it could be believed that it was conceived after the wedding, then it would be a legitimate baby;

- if the baby is born too soon after the wedding, or if is already known that the husband is not the father (as in Lollys' case), then it is a bastard.

In the country I live in, the second case makes the baby still a legitimate one. Being born in a marriage is what does it. The husband has to take legal action to make the child a bastard. and the courts may be want to rule against him.

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In the country I live in, the second case makes the baby still a legitimate one. Being born in a marriage is what does it. The husband has to take legal action to make the child a bastard. and the courts may be want to rule against him.

Yeah, I think it's the same in my country. But that's because nowadays we have well-defined, strict laws that are meant to protect the children. In a medieval world though, preserving the bloodline and the honor of the house would be way more important than the rights of children and women. No man would want his name to be inherited by another man's child. That's why women were much more severely punished for adultery than men - because there was a risk they would pass off a bastard as a legitimate child.

Therefore, when there was no doubt whatsoever that the baby was conceived with another man (as was Lollys' case), that baby would be a bastard. That's why Lollys' baby is called Tyrion Tanner, not Tyrion Blackwater or Stokeworth. He has a bastard's name, because he is obviously a bastard.

Of course, if the baby was born more than 9 months after the marriage, then it would probably be legitimate, because even if he knew his wife was unfaithful, the husband would not be able to prove the baby was not his (assuming they had a normal sex life). See Tywin Lannister: he probably suspects Tyrion is not his, but he can't prove it, so he has to accept Tyrion as his legitimate son.

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Re-reading The Mystery Knight, can't figure out when it takes place in relation to The Sworn Sword.

The narrative makes it seem like only a few weeks have passed. Is that right?

As per the World of Ice and Fire, both take place in 211 AC, though for the Mustary Knight, there might be a error there.. until there is a fourth print, an errata, or an e-book update, we can only guess.

But TMK describes the Redgrass Field as having been 16 years ago, and with the RF in late 196 AC, you'd expect such a statement to be made in 212 AC, instead of 211 AC.

In any case, Dunks injuries have healed properly, so a few months, at least. They travelled from the coast of the Reach, IIRC, to the Riverlands..

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I've seen art of Robert and Rhaegar at the Ruby Ford where they are both mounted and on foot. Which one was it?

According to the books, they were mounted at some time, and at least Rhaegar must have been unhorsed. The fan theory goes when Rhaegar had thrown Robert off his horse, he most chivalrously dismounted to continue the fight on foot. But there is too little to say for sure at this moment.

eta:

A quote to show they fought on horseback, at least initially:

They had come together at the ford of the Trident while the battle crashed around them, Robert with his warhammer and his great antlered helm, the Targaryen prince armored all in black. On his breastplate was the three-headed dragon of his House, wrought all in rubies that flashed like fire in the sunlight. The waters of the Trident ran red around the hooves of their destriers as they circled and clashed, again and again, until at last a crushing blow from Robert's hammer stove in the dragon and the chest beneath it. When Ned had finally come on the scene, Rhaegar lay dead in the stream, while men of both armies scrabbled in the swirling waters for rubies knocked free of his armor.

A Game of Thrones, chapter 4, Eddard I

Robert was wounded by Rhaegar at first, though:

Lord Robert was wounded by the dragon prince in the combat, yet in the end, Baratheon’s

ferocious strength and his thirst to avenge the shame brought upon his stolen betrothed proved thegreater. His warhammer found its mark, and Robert drove the spike through Rhaegar’s chest,

scattering the costly rubies that blazed upon the prince’s breastplate.

The World of Ice and Fire - Robert's Rebellion

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As per the World of Ice and Fire, both take place in 211 AC, though for the Mustary Knight, there might be a error there.. until there is a fourth print, an errata, or an e-book update, we can only guess.

But TMK describes the Redgrass Field as having been 16 years ago, and with the RF in late 196 AC, you'd expect such a statement to be made in 212 AC, instead of 211 AC.

In any case, Dunks injuries have healed properly, so a few months, at least. They travelled from the coast of the Reach, IIRC, to the Riverlands..

Ah, thanks.

Egg is ten in TSS and eleven in TMK, so that fits with your "few months" timeframe.

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Since Barristans removal from the KG would that allow removal of brothers from the NW considering the KG vows are based off the NW (according to the world book)

So far, it seems not. Barristan's removal from the KG created a precedent for the KG and seems to have turned the KG into a joke (with Boros getting kicked out and then sworn in again, the Hound entering the KG and then leaving, etc.). But so far no one seems to have used that precedent for the NW.

At the same time, the situation is a bit different: most NW members are thieves, rapists, murderers, etc. for whom the NW was an alternative to an even harsher punishment. So even if they were removed from the NW, that would just mean that they would be turned over to the kingdoms' justice system for whatever crimes they did. Therefore, I'm pretty sure they would rather stay in the Watch. As for the few members who joined the NW willingly (like Jon), they wouldn't want to leave the Watch anyway.

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So far, it seems not. Barristan's removal from the KG created a precedent for the KG and seems to have turned the KG into a joke (with Boros getting kicked out and then sworn in again, the Hound entering the KG and then leaving, etc.). But so far no one seems to have used that precedent for the NW.

At the same time, the situation is a bit different: most NW members are thieves, rapists, murderers, etc. for whom the NW was an alternative to an even harsher punishment. So even if they were removed from the NW, that would just mean that they would be turned over to the kingdoms' justice system for whatever crimes they did. Therefore, I'm pretty sure they would rather stay in the Watch. As for the few members who joined the NW willingly (like Jon), they wouldn't want to leave the Watch anyway.

Didn't Jon refer to Barristan as a precedent for having Jon released from the Night's Watch?
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