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Small Questions v.10101


Jon Weirgaryen

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No, the bastard was the baby that Lollys was carrying at that moment, the result of the rape. If Bronn conceived a child with Lollys after he married her, that child would obviously not be a bastard.

I don't remember any exact rules to be stated in the books, but I think we should guide ourselves after common sense:

- if the baby is born at least 6-7 months after the marriage, so that it could be believed that it was conceived after the wedding, then it would be a legitimate baby;

- if the baby is born too soon after the wedding, or if is already known that the husband is not the father (as in Lollys' case), then it is a bastard.

Yes, that's what I meant, that the baby she was carrying was a bastard.

But, for example, if LF had married lysa after he got her pregnant, would that baby be a bastard? The biological parents are married at the time of the birth but it was still conceived outside of marriage.

Imagine how much it would suck if that baby were a boy but the younger brother were the heir because the older brother was technically a bastard.

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That was Robb discussing his will with Cat...

Martin also made the connection in an interview.

Shaw: Is there any possible way for the vow of the Black to be revoked, other than what Stannis offered Jon?

Martin: Well, not historically, but of course kings can always change the rules if they want. The Kings Guard was created by Aegon the Conqueror, and he initially created the rules that they lived by, drawing on some previous historical traditions, and other things were perhaps added and modified later, but they've been fixed in their present form for a long time. But you can see them changing in the books. When Joffrey dismisses Ser Barristan from the King's Guard, on account of age, that's precedent breaking. Normally they serve until they die. Of course, Cersei later dismisses Ser Boris Blount for cowardice, but that's unusual too. So these things are subject to change.

http://web.archive.org/web/20051103091500/nrctc.edu/fhq/vol1iss3/00103009.htm

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How many Iron Islands are there I know there are like seven main ones but isn't there a bunch of small ones?

From TWoIaF:

“Mapmakers tell us that there are thirty-one Iron Islands in the main grouping off Ironman’s Bay west of the Cape of Eagles, and thirteen more clustered around the Lonely Light, far out in the vastness of the Sunset Sea.”

Also did the Iron Islands use to be fertile and now it's not?

“The soil of the Iron Islands is thin and stony, more suitable for the grazing of goats than the raising of crops. The ironborn would surely suffer famine every winter but for the endless bounty of the sea and the fisherfolk who reap it.”

Can't find any quote from the world book mentioning that the iron islands used to be fertile.

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Since no one besides a small few who know what happened at TToJ, why isn't Ned considered/mentioned as being the best swordsman in Westeros? As far as common people know Ned beat three lengardary KG.

He actually was. For example, Catelyn notes that Northern soldiers:

They whispered of Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning, deadliest of the seven knights of Aerys's Kingsguard, and of how their young lord had slain him in single combat.

That's true for the Northern folk at least. I doubt that much of Sountern lords and smallfolk know that Ned was at the TOJ or of the events that happened there.

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He actually was. For example, Catelyn notes that Northern soldiers:

That's true for the Northern folk at least. I doubt that much of Sountern lords and smallfolk know that Ned was at the TOJ or of the events that happened there.

true, but wasn't that cat talking about WF household servants when she was remembering the events when wylla was brought up?

My point is when anyone in asoiaf mentions badassery swordsman, almost everyone brings up tSoTM but no one mentions who killed him in particular. Neds honor is what he is known for but not defeating the single most lengardary swordsman that ever lived.

Because as far as anyone knows he defeated him singlehandedly.

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true, but wasn't that cat talking about WF household servants when she was remembering the events when wylla was brought up?

My point is when anyone in asoiaf mentions badassery swordsman, almost everyone brings up tSoTM but no one mentions who killed him in particular. Neds honor is what he is known for but not defeating the single most lengardary swordsman that ever lived.

Because as far as anyone knows he defeated him singlehandedly.

Wylla is brought up twice: Ned names her as Jon's mother to Robert and Edric names her Jon's mother a servant at Starfall since before he was born.

Cat brings up Ashara Dayne as Jon's mother...

Did Ned ever take part in a tournament?

That does seem the way to a reputation as a great swordsman....

Dayne did, Selmy did, Jamie did... just 3 random swordsmen that are famous.

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Wylla is brought up twice: Ned names her as Jon's mother to Robert and Edric names her Jon's mother a servant at Starfall since before he was born.

Cat brings up Ashara Dayne as Jon's mother...

Did Ned ever take part in a tournament?

That does seem the way to a reputation as a great swordsman....

Dayne did, Selmy did, Jamie did... just 3 random swordsmen that are famous.

And when the Kingslayer and The Bold die more than likey everyone will know how and why is all I'm saying.

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And when the Kingslayer and The Bold die more than likey everyone will know how and why is all I'm saying.

I see your point. The Kingsguard are famous throughout the kingdom and Ser Arthur is legendary, so there would be considerable interest in how they died. A couple of factors might play into Ned's low profile after TOJ. There was a war on and a lot of people died including the king, the crown prince, lords, knights, Kingsguard Darry, and thousands of combatants and smallfolk - so a 'mopping up' battle would not get as much interest. Communication was medieval at the time and there were more important topics in the realm such as the new non-Targaryen king with his new world order.

I suspect the most dominant factor is embodied in that old saw about history being written by the victors. In this case, Ned Taciturn Stark and Howland Reclusive Reed are the only confirmed witnesses to what transpired and they are both fairly uncommunicative, retreating to their homelands away from inquiring minds. Ned does not speak of the TOJ except when he praises Ser Arthur and credits Howland Reed for saving his life. Also, when others try to expound on what they think happened, Ned is quick to quash any scuttlebutt - so his limited story becomes the official version. Just my thoughts.

eta: words

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he says he would be dead if not for howland reed. So it wasnt single combat. And maybe the story is more, Ned and 6 others killed 3 KG... Doesn't sound as impressive.

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Yes, I know that, we know that, but in universe no one knows that except Ned, Howland and possibly a few servants /wetnurse. After TToJ, when people say " remember Arthur Dayne!,he was sick with a sword. Amazing mofo! A god!, where'd he go again?"

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Yes, I know that, we know that, but in universe no one knows that except Ned, Howland and possibly a few servants /wetnurse. After TToJ, when people say " remember Arthur Dayne!,he was sick with a sword. Amazing mofo! A god!, where'd he go again?"

In universe, I don't think that many people south of the Neck even know that Ned was at the TOJ and had part in killing Arthur. Circumstances around Arthur Dayne's death and Ned's involvement in it are not widely known.

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How come is it not known that they were 7 against 3 at the ToJ? I've just checked TWOIAF and it only mentions Jaime was in KL and Barristan, Darry and Lewyn of Dorne were with Rhaegar on the Trident. The other 3 are unaccounted for (except for a brief mention that Ned killed Arthur Dayne in single combat). So what is the official version about the 3 remaining KG?


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But, for example, if LF had married lysa after he got her pregnant, would that baby be a bastard? The biological parents are married at the time of the birth but it was still conceived outside of marriage.

Imagine how much it would suck if that baby were a boy but the younger brother were the heir because the older brother was technically a bastard.

In our world, that baby would not be a bastard, if its biological parents were married at the time of the birth. That's why there's the concept of "shotgun wedding" - the man who got a girl pregnant would marry her (usually forced by the girl's parents) in order to "save" her honor and to insure the baby is born legitimate. Therefore, I think the same applies in Westeros.

The situation would be more complicated if the baby was born out of wedlock and *then* its biological parents married each other. Then I suppose the baby would be a bastard and the father would have to legitimize it (possibly needing his liege lord's permission). But I guess this situation would be very rare: if the guy didn't bother to marry her after getting her pregnant, why would he do it later?

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