Robb_Warged Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 You think burning Shireen will play a significant role in the fall of Stannis? Assuming he falls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blushingfae Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 It will be the end for Selese. She will not be able to live with herself. Stannis is bewitched by the Red Woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ghost of Someone Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 What more can Stannis do, Dany at some point is coming to Westeros and Jon is at the wall and Sansa knows her brothers are alive, Littlefinger is headed North. Let Stannis bath in Bolton blood and kill as many of them as he can and let him die. His time has come. Obvilously, the show wants us to want him dead like we do the Boltons for some reason, let them wipe each other out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarantula Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I couldn't help but notice how put off his men seemed by it. They did as he asked but none of them looked happy about it, and IIRC there were a couple of shots where someone would turn away or look down. I feel like ultimately morale is probably going to hit an all time low, considering the recent loss of supplies and now witnessing Stannis burning his own daughter alive. I wouldn't be surprised if it was all too much for Selyse. Davos isn't likely to take the news well either. At this rate, Stannis will only have Melisandre to turn to, and that doesn't seem like a good thing... :leaving: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ghost of Someone Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I couldn't help but notice how put off his men seemed by it. They did as he asked but none of them looked happy about it, and IIRC there were a couple of shots where someone would turn away or look down. I feel like ultimately morale is probably going to hit an all time low, considering the recent loss of supplies and now witnessing Stannis burning his own daughter alive. I wouldn't be surprised if it was all too much for Selyse. Davos isn't likely to take the news well either. At this rate, Stannis will only have Melisandre to turn to, and that doesn't seem like a good thing... :leaving: Yes, the show made sure that some of his men became disenchanted with Stannis for sacraficing his own child and heir for the sake of a march. Consequences anyone? Defections anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jet199 Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 If defections come they won't while he acts strong but as soon as he shows any weakness they will turn on him. It's like with ISIS, people say "how can people remain part of a group that does such horrible things" but that ignores the fact that many people see horrible acts as being a sign of strength and the rest get frightened into silence. It's usually only well after the events that people start to think that maybe it wasn't a great idea or feel safe enough to act. This of course relies on D&D going along with what happens historically like GRRM would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Drunkard Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Fairy sure the sellswords would be wondering what the fuck they signed up for right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkAndFullOfTurnips Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Stannis is already a kinslayer because of Renly. I see his burning of Shireen moreso as an extension of the theme of his story which is that he would do anything for what he believed was right and in the end it all wouldn't be worthwhile. He will likely win the Battle of Winterfell because of it, sort of like how he beat Renly to open the road to KL, but it will come back to bite him in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Suburbs Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I keep thinking that Selyse is a Florent and they are descended from the old Gardner Kings of the Reach. I'm not sure how many generations king's blood remains viable, but if they need any more sacrifices there are only her and Stannis left (although I suppose it is possible that some of the bannermen have KB too), and I doubt Stannis will sacrifice himself. Mel sacrificed a few Florents just before they sailed to wall and got the benefit of a nice trade wind that sped their journey north. Also, in one of the few times that Mel said exactly what she saw in the flames rather than what she thought it meant, it was Stannis sitting on the Iron Throne. So I'm pretty sure he will get there, but whether it means anything in the end is debatable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jet199 Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Mel sees things in the flames then does a sacrifice and claims it causes those things. Not just the leeches but the weather too. And she often gets it wrong, she wanted to kill Renly because she saw him defeating Stannis on the Blackwater but what she really saw was Loras in Renly's armour. She actually convinced Stannis he needed to kill Renly in error when they could have come to terms. Shireen's death won't achieve anything and she has misread the fires again so she wont be able to even pretend it has once the sun goes back in. She wanted to remove Shireen purely because she was a threat to her power over Stannis and Selyse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blackmont Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Exactly, Mel is just a charlatan when it comes to sacrifices. She sees something, sacrifices, and claims that the sacrifice is the cause. She also has a bad rap for causing bad futures to happen. i.e. Blackwater. If Stannis had just sailed to KL, or allied with Renly, things would have gone down differently. Her Prophesies are self fulfilling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noneofyourbusiness Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I keep thinking that Selyse is a Florent and they are descended from the old Gardner Kings of the Reach. I'm not sure how many generations king's blood remains viable, but if they need any more sacrifices there are only her and Stannis left (although I suppose it is possible that some of the bannermen have KB too), and I doubt Stannis will sacrifice himself. Mel sacrificed a few Florents just before they sailed to wall and got the benefit of a nice trade wind that sped their journey north. Also, in one of the few times that Mel said exactly what she saw in the flames rather than what she thought it meant, it was Stannis sitting on the Iron Throne. So I'm pretty sure he will get there, but whether it means anything in the end is debatable. If it works multiple generations distant, then any Tyrell (also descended from the Gardeners), Arryn, Lannister or Stark will do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyanna Tarly of Horn Hill Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 my boyfriend is an unsullied viewer and he seems to think it will all work out for Stannis the Mannis. Boy will he be upset when shit hits the fan also hes not at all upset about him burning his daughter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tullster Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I keep thinking that Selyse is a Florent and they are descended from the old Gardner Kings of the Reach. I'm not sure how many generations king's blood remains viable, but if they need any more sacrifices there are only her and Stannis left (although I suppose it is possible that some of the bannermen have KB too), and I doubt Stannis will sacrifice himself. Mel sacrificed a few Florents just before they sailed to wall and got the benefit of a nice trade wind that sped their journey north. Also, in one of the few times that Mel said exactly what she saw in the flames rather than what she thought it meant, it was Stannis sitting on the Iron Throne. So I'm pretty sure he will get there, but whether it means anything in the end is debatable. I've made this point before but I think it bears repeating. My theory is that it is not King's Blood that Mel really wants. Baratheon blood is valuable not because they just became kings. It's valuable because Stannis' grandmother was a Targaryen. On that basis, Florent blood is worthless, as is Stark blood - pending the results of Jon Snow's paternity test. The funny thing is, that also opens the door for Robert to be Jon Snow's father. Either way, it's still R+L=J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Snow Bengal Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Stannis is already a kinslayer because of Renly. I see his burning of Shireen moreso as an extension of the theme of his story which is that he would do anything for what he believed was right and in the end it all wouldn't be worthwhile. He will likely win the Battle of Winterfell because of it, sort of like how he beat Renly to open the road to KL, but it will come back to bite him in the end. Ahhh yes, good point, well made, I'd forgotten all about that. It's like Tyrion says "“Most men would rather deny a hard truth than face it.” Stannis started down this path and he's gone too far to turn back & change his mind now. He is trapped within his previous decisions & it's easier to just go on living the lie because the alternative is madness. Exactly, Mel is just a charlatan when it comes to sacrifices. She sees something, sacrifices, and claims that the sacrifice is the cause. Not completely true, she gave birth to that shadow creature that killed Renley - that was not an illusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borodin Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Stannis is already a kinslayer because of Renly. No, Reny broke the laws of succession - an act of treason - and was executed by the rightful king. Executing a traitor is not murder. Kinslaying is a kind of murder, like when you burn your innocent child alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
239JMFL34109 Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 No, Reny broke the laws of succession - an act of treason - and was executed by the rightful king. Executing a traitor is not murder. Kinslaying is a kind of murder, like when you burn your innocent child alive. he still killed his kin it does matter if he broke the laws. that is an old taboo not really a law of any kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonehearted Snake Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 he still killed his kin it does matter if he broke the laws. that is an old taboo not really a law of any kind. :agree: He could have taken him as a POW. Unlike Ned and Jaime, who would really risk their armies to release him? I doubt the Tyrells would care that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borodin Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 he still killed his kin it does matter if he broke the laws. that is an old taboo not really a law of any kind. Well, while there might be question about whether he is kinslayer with respect to Reny, there is no question with respect to Shireen. Likewise, there is a question about whether Robb Stark is a kinslayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonehearted Snake Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Well, while there might be question about whether he is kinslayer with respect to Reny, there is no question with respect to Shireen. Likewise, there is a question about whether Robb Stark is a kinslayer. You mean about Carstark? I know he says that but I don't buy it. They are too far removed by now. Renly is immediate family though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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