Cursed is the kinslayer/Shireen's Revenge

[Rise Above]

here is what i think will happen

mel summons an ice dragon that stannis will ride into battle

once dany lands in westeros drogon realizes jon is the true last dragon and falls under his command. jon orders him to eat dany cuz dany sux

jon and the stannis with there new dragons battle the white walker army and they almost lose but jon kills the nights king in an epic valeron sword duel

jon becomes the new night king aka the true king in the north. stannis takes the iron throne and is king in the south

the end

[Pigeon Pie]

Well, every kinslayer in this series didn't seem to have many happy things coming at them after. Robb was killed after killing Karstark, Stannis lost at the Blackwater, Robert was horned by his wife all his life and died a pretty shitty death post killing Rhaegar, etc. Whether it's really some sort of magic or energy (like our own Karma) or just the fact that killing your relative means you're desperate and makes you lose sympathy and therefore, by logic, causes you bleak things...

[A Ghost of Someone]

Stannis is doomed and what he did to Shireen solidified that. He will succeed at something, might even take Winterfell but will not be around to enjoy it for long.

[ummester]

Stannis is doomed and what he did to Shireen solidified that. He will succeed at something, might even take Winterfell but will not be around to enjoy it for long.

He'll get the IT, I recon - I'm starting to think he is the little brother that will strangle Cersie now, also. He's is definitely the smallest out of the book Baratheons and smaller than Robert in show.

Anyways, yea, I'm starting to think he'll get the north to bend the knee and move on to KL. He'll probably just leave the Boltons as wardens now.

[WhitewolfStark]

my boyfriend is an unsullied viewer and he seems to think it will all work out for Stannis the Mannis. Boy will he be upset when shit hits the fan also hes not at all upset about him burning his daughter

My father (also unsullied, who just binge watched Season 1 through Season 5, Episode 9 over the course of one week I should add) wants Melisandre to fail more than he wants Stannis to fail. He was practically yelling "burn the red witch".

Granted, he is 72.

[WhitewolfStark]

yeah i became a crazy tree dude a lot of people would say that is a punishment

yeah it really is something the the people who in the world really hate and would mark you as someone you should avoid or etc..

Not just avoid, but sometimes even: "kill on sight" kind of deal.

[of man and wolf]

All the words Davos has said to support Stannis...must feel like bile in the throat now. I wonder if Davos believes murdering Shireen is an honest accounting of justice.

[hallam]

I've made this point before but I think it bears repeating.

My theory is that it is not King's Blood that Mel really wants. Baratheon blood is valuable not because they just became kings. It's valuable because Stannis' grandmother was a Targaryen.

On that basis, Florent blood is worthless, as is Stark blood - pending the results of Jon Snow's paternity test.

The funny thing is, that also opens the door for Robert to be Jon Snow's father. Either way, it's still R+L=J.

I think you might be onto something. The idea Lyanna would sleep with Rheagar is really silly. We are told that Lyanna is absolutely dead set against adultery and that Rheagar is a paragon of princely virtue.

The idea that Lyanna would sleep with Robert is not so silly. Nor is the idea that Robert might then go and insult her by sleeping with another woman. In fact we have a hint of the same. So Robert cheats on Lyanna, Lyanna takes off, Rheagar meets her on the road and agrees to hide her to help teach Robert a lesson.

It is even quite plausible that Robert and Lyanna got married first in secret. They were engaged. They had a septon at their disposal.

Every other part of the Rhaegar+L=J timeline works and Jon has sufficient Targarean blood for dragon riding duties.

We definitely won't get an easy reveal on this. In fact I bet it will be spun out as the main plot line of Season 6 and the reveal won't come till episode 9 till the earliest. In the meantime we will see a whole rack of theories being raised and dismissed.

[Steve Stark]

I always thought of it as more taboo not a curse. I mean, yes, it is sometimes defined as that but I agree that it is superstition. Though on the flip superstitious things are sometimes magic with another name in this world... Or sometimes they are just consequences.

I hear you.

I don't think many in Westeros knew that Stannis killed Renly. After all they blamed Brienne & Cat. And I don't think he was cursed from it, necessarily. But I do think it helped build on his character's "tortured soul". It stuck with him. They don't know, but HE KNOWS that he killed his own brother. It will eat away at him, but I don't think it cursed him. And since no one knows, they didn't LABEL him a kinslayer.

Now with his daughter, people KNOW that he killed her. They witnessed it. That will have ramifications.

Not many would follow a man willingly if he was willing to burn his own daughter alive. If he's willing to burn his own daughter alive, he's willing to burn ANYONE. So fear alone is enough to make people leave his side... or more accurately, RUN from his side. Then there are people like me, who believe he's a giant pile of shit for murdering his own daughter, who wouldn't follow him simply because he lacks character, honor, and compassion. He's a lost cause.

Shireen sealed the deal. Stannis just signed his own death warrant. He will never be king.

As the Mad King came to find out...you can't just burn whatever you want to without ramifications. Eventually someone like Jaime is going to come along, and stick a sword through your back.

[calo760]

No it's perfectly interesting if he did it thinking he was doing the right thing and it turns out it was unnecessary or the red God is a sham. Given GRRM's grim view of religion, I don't see Stannis faith in fanaticism to be rewarded ultimately.

i thought about this point actually. .and I know GRRM has stated that he grew up Catholic but is not agnostic/athiest..but I remember him saying that he loves religions and finds them very interesting, but he doesn't believe in them. However, he added that he would love it if God was real (he just doesn't see logic in it) and if it was his world God would be...so maybe God is real in his books as a way of expressing that?

[Stag_legion]

Shireen says a line to Stannis that got me thinking about Stannis' ultimate fate: "It was a disaster for the Targaryens, they never truly recovered."

I think, in the short term, the sacrifice will pay off(ie. defeating the Boltons), but long term, it will destroy Stannis.

But we know that wasn't true. Targaryens ruled for another 150 years after that and the only reason the house crashed was because Aerys went crazy and started burning great lords.

[Stag_legion]

He'll get the IT, I recon - I'm starting to think he is the little brother that will strangle Cersie now, also. He's is definitely the smallest out of the book Baratheons and smaller than Robert in show.

Anyways, yea, I'm starting to think he'll get the north to bend the knee and move on to KL. He'll probably just leave the Boltons as wardens now.

confusing post. are you talking about stannis?! Stannis' actor is taller than robert's actor on the show, in the books robert is significantly taller and bigger than stannis, but its not clear whether renly or stannis is bigger. All three brothers are really tall and muscular nonethelss (in the books).

[vuk]

But we know that wasn't true. Targaryens ruled for another 150 years after that and the only reason the house crashed was because Aerys went crazy and started burning great lords.

And what Stannis does?

[HoboJed]

I've been wondering if Shireen's stoneskin has been laying dormant, and her burning has infected everyone who stood and watched. I know in reality, incinerating an infected body would most likely destroy the pathogen, but when has GRRM or D&D let reality get in the way of a good idea? (Baratheon genes, anyone?)

[Stag_legion]

And what Stannis does?

Burning your sole heir, yeah that would make you a hard sell for other feudal lords. But I m hoping this is a show only thing, and stannis is actually not a participant in shireen's burning in the books.

My wishful thinking is that D&D have made stannis a participant in shireen burning on the show to shock and or make stannis turning on melisandre at a later point more dramatic. I could imagine stannis strangling melisandre next season like he did in season 2 (something that wasn't in the books!) while telling her "you made me kill my daughter my heir" but this time he ll go all the way and kill her.

[vuk]

Burning your sole heir, yeah that would make you a hard sell for other feudal lords. But I m hoping this is a show only thing, and stannis is actually not a participant in shireen's burning in the books.

My wishful thinking is that D&D have made stannis a participant in shireen burning on the show to shock and or make stannis turning on melisandre at a later point more dramatic. I could imagine stannis strangling melisandre next season like he did in season 2 (something that wasn't in the books!) while telling her "you made me kill my daughter my heir" but this time he ll go all the way and kill her.

We are in show thread IIRC.. And what do you mean by "burning your sole heir"?

[Annarkie]

There's a theory going round that the warm spell, which Mel says is a gift from R'hllor for the sacrifice, is actually going to make it a lot easier for LF to march the Knights of the Vale up the King's Road to kill them all.

I can easily see this happening! And OMG, I realized that this makes me root for Littlefinger. Oh God, what is this world coming to?

[King Tyrion I]

We are in show thread IIRC.. And what do you mean by "burning your sole heir"?

Shireen was his only - surviving - daughter after some stillborn.

[vuk]

I can easily see this happening! And OMG, I realized that this makes me root for Littlefinger. Oh God, what is this world coming to?

To be honest rooting for the Night's King.. As Ned had said - Others take them all.

[Ludo Kressh]

But we know that wasn't true. Targaryens ruled for another 150 years after that and the only reason the house crashed was because Aerys went crazy and started burning great lords.

And how does that make what I said not true? And, as vuk pointed out, Stannis is doing the same thing. What I was implying is that Stannis is making some very bold decisions here that could result in the near destruction of his house. It may not be instantaneous, but eventually it could happen, like with the Targaryens.