[No Spoilers] EP510 Discussion

[ubermensch]

Why is Stannis so dumb? I thought he was the greatest commander in all of Westeros?

• He doesn't realize 20 men sneaking up on him and setting horses on fire

Dear Sir, I think that you're missing something here. Those were 20 good men!

[AlexKj]

Ollie is a little faggot, hope they throw him off the wall, that is all

Ollie is just an angry Kid, he'll probably regret what he has done later.. If he survive the White Walkers !

[AryaSansa]

I'm annoyed at Stannis, Brienne, and Olly. All of them do stupid things that don't make sense.

[AryaSansa]

Dear Sir, I think that you're missing something here. Those were 20 good men!

I'm not a sir :P But 20 good men should not be able to wreak that much havoc on an experienced commander. Also the experienced commander should have scouts right?

[Skulb]

Watched the show with my unsullied friends. Decent number of them said they wouldn't watch the show next season because they felt like there's no characters left that they really care about, and if they did have a character they still liked they don't seem them getting anywhere good by the end of the last two seasons or didn't care enough to keep watching because so many characters are dead.

I'm a book reader, Still enjoy the show, just thought that was semi interesting and worth pointing out.

Personally I think too many deaths are being left ambiguous. What was the point of cutting the Stannis scene in that weird way for instance? Until otherwise proven I am quite sure Stannis is still alive. He`s much too badass to have such a milquetoast farewell and it is quite possible that Brienne saw something in him in that last moment that made her change her mind. If not, why were we not shown his death in the usual grisly fashion?

But it`s not just him. No one saw the Hound die either, nor Marcella. As for Jon Snow my prediction is that Mellisandre is his mother or quite possibly just in love with him. She will in either case therefore be able to bring him back to life, like the two guys in the Brotherhood were doing in a previous season, simply because she may actually love him. If anything I was disappointed with the customary "surprise" deaths for this season. As far as I can tell the only significant character - if he even qualifies - who`s legitimately dead, except for Shireen and her mother, Ramsey`s squeeze, Trant and the curly aristo in Mereen, is Master Aemon. And he was like 280 years old or something so no surprise there then. The Mountain is even back from his lame Frankenstein experiment. Killing off Tyrion or Daenerys would have been surprising.

This is of course provided that I am right about Stannis and Snow. But I am fairly confident that I am. Stannis` death scene makes no sense at all if the plan was to kill him off. And the Snow resurrection is just so predictable at this point in the story I can`t see that not happening in the first episode of next season.

PS: I also take it for granted that Sansa and Reek will land in a pile of snow and are not dead. As with Stannis; if they are dead why were we not shown it?

Edited June 24, 2015 by Skulb

[Spilt Pea Soup]

I used to scoff at Stannis druthers, but they've made a strong case. We may see the one true King return next season.

[jakelamotta]

Personally I think too many deaths are being left ambiguous. What was the point of cutting the Stannis scene in that weird way for instance? Until otherwise proven I am quite sure Stannis is still alive. He`s much too badass to have such a milquetoast farewell and it is quite possible that Brienne saw something in him in that last moment that made her change her mind. If not, why were we not shown his death in the usual grisly fashion?

But it`s not just him. No one saw the Hound die either, nor Marcella. As for Jon Snow my prediction is that Mellisandre is his mother or quite possibly just in love with him. She will in either case therefore be able to bring him back to life, like the two guys in the Brotherhood were doing in a previous season, simply because she may actually love him. If anything I was disappointed with the customary "surprise" deaths for this season. As far as I can tell the only significant character - if he even qualifies - who`s legitimately dead, except for Shireen and her mother, Ramsey`s squeeze, Trant and the curly aristo in Mereen, is Master Aemon. And he was like 280 years old or something so no surprise there then. The Mountain is even back from his lame Frankenstein experiment. Killing off Tyrion or Daenerys would have been surprising.

This is of course provided that I am right about Stannis and Snow. But I am fairly confident that I am. Stannis` death scene makes no sense at all if the plan was to kill him off. And the Snow resurrection is just so predictable at this point in the story I can`t see that not happening in the first episode of next season.

PS: I also take it for granted that Sansa and Reek will land in a pile of snow and are not dead. As with Stannis; if they are dead why were we not shown it?

Yeah, cutting in the Brienne/Stannis scene is so cheap. It makes no sense and was a terrible desicion, I really have lost confidence in Benioff/Weiss. Even for me who have only read the books after seing each season it was blatantly obvious what scenes were added by them and were not at all from the source material. Just due to the quality of the dialogue and if anything did not make logical sense you could always be sure that it must be them making that up.

Leaving the hound hanging is a different story though given how the books are written. Arya is the pow in that scene and she leaves so as do the viewers. Same goes for Syrio Forel for example.

Sansa and reek would also be fine IF they in fact did die, then I would like it alot although we have seen little signs of narrative consistency before. Otherwise thats just cheap aswell.

[Skulb]

I`m actually relatively happy with S5 all told. E8 was a particular highlight. The characters in the eastern part of the story with Daenerys are just all absolutely horrible and they have been since Viserys died, Getting Tyrion and Varys over there will help make that part of the show more interesting, at least if the dialogue is well written. And you still have one or two dirtbags to hate and prots to root for in the west so that should be fine without them. I`ll miss Stannis if he really is dead though.

What did somewhat bug me was an entire season with no Bran. There was quite the build up of that in S4 and then bupkis in S5. Perhaps it`s because the actor playing him is busy with school or something.

[valirpaz]

Great post! Thank you for NOT putting book spoilers in it, as so many others on this site seem incapable of doing.

Thanks and you're welcome. To somewhat quote someone you know very well: "I have not read a single book 1. I am incapable of spoilers." ;)

Pycelle seemed like a changed man when Cersei returned. He stood proud and confident, and was not at all the cowering toad we have seen in so many of the episodes.

Exactly. Suspicious I'd say.

Stannis is dead. The Hound is dead. Jon Snow will be brought back by Melissandre. Davos will commit suicide when he learns what Stannis did and the results. Varys and Tyrion will gain control of Mereen from the Harpies. They will release Dany's other two dragons, and the three will join up and burn the Dothraki holding Dany. Dany will return to Mereen, grab her people and armies and head for Westeros.

I bet against Davos' suicide. At least it will not be a real suicide like cutting his throat or jumping down the wall. I think he'll try to kill Melissandre (possibly even knowing he'll fail) an be killed by either by her or Jon.

Edited June 26, 2015 by valirpaz

[missingm]

Personally I think too many deaths are being left ambiguous. What was the point of cutting the Stannis scene in that weird way for instance? Until otherwise proven I am quite sure Stannis is still alive. He`s much too badass to have such a milquetoast farewell and it is quite possible that Brienne saw something in him in that last moment that made her change her mind. If not, why were we not shown his death in the usual grisly fashion?

But it`s not just him. No one saw the Hound die either, nor Marcella. As for Jon Snow my prediction is that Mellisandre is his mother or quite possibly just in love with him. She will in either case therefore be able to bring him back to life, like the two guys in the Brotherhood were doing in a previous season, simply because she may actually love him. If anything I was disappointed with the customary "surprise" deaths for this season. As far as I can tell the only significant character - if he even qualifies - who`s legitimately dead, except for Shireen and her mother, Ramsey`s squeeze, Trant and the curly aristo in Mereen, is Master Aemon. And he was like 280 years old or something so no surprise there then. The Mountain is even back from his lame Frankenstein experiment. Killing off Tyrion or Daenerys would have been surprising.

This is of course provided that I am right about Stannis and Snow. But I am fairly confident that I am. Stannis` death scene makes no sense at all if the plan was to kill him off. And the Snow resurrection is just so predictable at this point in the story I can`t see that not happening in the first episode of next season.

PS: I also take it for granted that Sansa and Reek will land in a pile of snow and are not dead. As with Stannis; if they are dead why were we not shown it?

First, I definitely agree that Sansa and Reek live. When they looked down I was pretty sure there was a sizeable snow bank to break their fall. At worst Reek uses his body to break Sansa's fall.

As for the others, I think the show has to leave so many cliffhangers as it has caught up to the books and the final decisions for the books hadn't been made before the final scripts had to be written. It seems to me that when they started the Game of Thrones TV show that the next book was supposed to be finished before Season 5... or at least the storyline would have been complete. Do you think the author may be rethinking some things himself?

Also, as per the show, Jon Snow's death looks pretty final.

[Skulb]

Also, as per the show, Jon Snow's death looks pretty final.

True. But then so did the death of the Brotherhood priest. Mellisandre is very conveniently placed for a resurrection now right next to Jon Snow`s corpse. If that doesn`t happen, what was the point of having her see the resurrecting priest in S2? She knows she can resurrect people if she truly cares about their deaths. Right?

[valirpaz]

I forgot to add yesterday: Arysansa - I totally agree on your comments on the Stannis scenes, very unlikely for a military commander, this should have been solved a bit more elegantly.

As for the others, I think the show has to leave so many cliffhangers as it has caught up to the books and the final decisions for the books hadn't been made before the final scripts had to be written. It seems to me that when they started the Game of Thrones TV show that the next book was supposed to be finished before Season 5... or at least the storyline would have been complete.

I'm not exactly sure about the relation between show and books but I'm sure GRR Martin must have a basic idea of where he's going and at least give the screenwriters some insight, after all they probably need to include some keys way in advance? I think the cliffhangers were more done to keep people wondering - they must have shot the full scenes rather than making a cut and trying to re-arrange everyone in the same position to complete the scene during the shots for season 6...

Also, as per the show, Jon Snow's death looks pretty final.

We'll see. In our world: Pretty final, agreed. In Westeros with magic and supernatural powers, not so much. Personally, I'd bet he's coming back.

[jakelamotta]

I`m actually relatively happy with S5 all told. E8 was a particular highlight. The characters in the eastern part of the story with Daenerys are just all absolutely horrible and they have been since Viserys died, Getting Tyrion and Varys over there will help make that part of the show more interesting, at least if the dialogue is well written. And you still have one or two dirtbags to hate and prots to root for in the west so that should be fine without them. I`ll miss Stannis if he really is dead though.

What did somewhat bug me was an entire season with no Bran. There was quite the build up of that in S4 and then bupkis in S5. Perhaps it`s because the actor playing him is busy with school or something.

Yes E8 was actually among the best of the entire show imo.

The lack of Bran and Hodor was explained long before the first episode aired and is due to that story line basically catching up to the books already in S4 (I have heard, have not read Feast or Dance).