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[No Spoilers] EP510 Discussion

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Non-spoiler discussion of the show goes here, for those who've not read the books or those who have but are happy to not actually reference them at all in discussion, taking each episode as it comes.

This topic should open automatically when the show begins airing.

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I expect a vast meltdown, vaster than anything since the start of the floob-pocalypse, of the internet in approximately 40 minutes at the end of this particular episode.

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Hi, I am still in an utter state of shock, I really really hate D&D, what have they done?????


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Hi, I am still in an utter state of shock, I really really hate D&D, what have they done?????

You will probably have to be more specific about to what in particular you are referring.

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Watched the show with my unsullied friends. Decent number of them said they wouldn't watch the show next season because they felt like there's no characters left that they really care about, and if they did have a character they still liked they don't seem them getting anywhere good by the end of the last two seasons or didn't care enough to keep watching because so many characters are dead.

I'm a book reader, Still enjoy the show, just thought that was semi interesting and worth pointing out.

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Jon is coming back for sure (I hope as a WW not Melissandre's resurrection), his story is far from over.


Is Stannis dead? I think he is but you never know.


I liked Sansa's Theon's scene thinking it was a beautifully made suicide, but everyone says that they survived????!!!


I look forward to Dany's story - seems to get interesting, wasn't cheering for her from season 3 but now it's going somewhere again.


Arya's story is also gonna be awesome.


Cercei's walk was IMO too long.



As an episode it was pretty great. But it wasn't made to be a finale. Half of it should have been ep 8, ep8 should have been ep9 and ep9 to ep10


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Watched the show with my unsullied friends. Decent number of them said they wouldn't watch the show next season because they felt like there's no characters left that they really care about, and if they did have a character they still liked they don't seem them getting anywhere good by the end of the last two seasons or didn't care enough to keep watching because so many characters are dead.

I'm a book reader, Still enjoy the show, just thought that was semi interesting and worth pointing out.

Actually I got the same comments from unsullied friends, like "Jon is a tough lose, not to many other characters I care about left."

Also, unsullied friends were confused about the Dothraki and Dany's current relationship with them. Wonder if that's a common theme or not. Few comments from them were, 'how are their so many Dothraki, there were way less in the desert with Dany'. And also 'ok, Khal Drogo was a Dothraki, so this should be good for her now'

Edited by The Dame That Groans

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um... shouldn't we start marking a new thread "Show Spoilers for Book Readers"? i'm fairly certain that we're all caught up now. and, in fact, i was rather enjoying wondering which of the brothers undertook "FTW" while seeing little Olly stab his mentor just broke my heart. we already have theoretically seen The Night King twice, we've seen the meeting of Dany and Tyrion. we've seen Stannis fail in his initial attack on Winterfell and the burning of Shireen - all things the books might have heralded, and may actually happen in WoW.



*i*, a book reader, feel spoiled by watching parts of this season. my decision to keep watching the TV show is likely going to be more influenced by whether or not George (who by all accounts is writing furiously) manages to beat the Season 6 opener with a Winds of Winter publication date.


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Actually I got the same comments from unsullied friends, like "Jon is a tough lose, not to many other characters I care about left."

Also, unsullied friends were confused about the Dothraki and Dany's current relationship with them. Wonder if that's a common theme or not. Few comments from them were, 'how are their so many Dothraki, there were way less in the desert with Dany'. And also 'ok, Khal Drogo was a Dothraki, so this should be good for her now'

Also another unsullied thing worth pointing out, most of my unsullied friends thought that Sansa/ Theon jump was them committing suicide.

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The revenge of the show viewers (on book readers for unconscionably and knowingly spoiling major events everywhere) will be even more sweet than Oberyn's would have been/for a while was on the Mountain. Omg I have been looking forward to this moment.


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Maybe a new topic should be created for book readers vs show viewers? And isn't there a separate "How did your non-reader friends react etc..." topic?



As to the show. Wow. Just wow. I am speechless. Once again, I did not see this happen, Jon Snow... one of my most favourite characters.





Jon is coming back for sure (I hope as a WW not Melissandre's resurrection), his story is far from over.


Is Stannis dead? I think he is but you never know.


I liked Sansa's Theon's scene thinking it was a beautifully made suicide, but everyone says that they survived????!!!


I look forward to Dany's story - seems to get interesting, wasn't cheering for her from season 3 but now it's going somewhere again.


Arya's story is also gonna be awesome.


Cercei's walk was IMO too long.



As an episode it was pretty great. But it wasn't made to be a finale. Half of it should have been ep 8, ep8 should have been ep9 and ep9 to ep10




I completely disagree with your assessment that the episode was not a finale. Maybe there was a bit much going on for one single episode (but then I always would prefer more character/background and less action), but overall exactly because of this it was (strategically thinking) a great finale. Essentially all threads were very intense, developed, and all have open ends, keep you wondering, even if you like only one house / storyline - you will be excited for the next season, no?



To expand your summary:



Jon: I agree he must be coming back. The romantics will dream that this was just a nightmare and he'll wake up at the start of next season. I think it is more likely that Melissandre will turn him into something, after all he has royal blood. Would she even have the power to heal him (after all she was quite interested in him). A White Walker resurrection sounds interesting, but he was killed by humans - unless they throw him over the wall which seems not unlikely. But then, shouldn't that be saved for later?



And now, what is going to happen to the Wildlings? A massacre?



So Melissandre. She managed to kill Stannis’ heir and wife, his army, maybe him too. Was her goal the downfall of Stannis all along? Or did she miscalculate her position (not so likely)? Or did she decide against Stannis once she had met Jon?



Death(?) of Stannis, I also agree, not sure. Usually the show quite enjoys graphic killing, so it was definitely a deliberate act to not show it - to keep us wondering. I also tend to think he's dead but who knows? Brienne might think he could be a token to free Sansa...



Sansa / Theon: Same thing - dead or not? You thought it was suicide, possible, I'm more inclined to think escape. It's Winterfell after all, they both know it perfectly (and furthermore in movies there is way too often a conveniently located haystack etc ;)), maybe somebody ended up seeing the candle after all?



Dany’s story: I confess, I always liked it. Now, not a good position for her, if I remember correctly, only a few Dothraki joined her back then, a lot were hostile, right? (Maybe I should re-watch all 5 seasons.) But then, we don’t know what happened with them in the meantime. And certainly a more seasoned queen is returning now.



Tyrion and Varys, great scene, I have grown fond of Tyrion and it will be interesting to see how this interim government will deal with the civil war. Ah, and what will happen to the two remaining dragons?



Arya's story, I’m excited about it too, she’s one of my favourite characters, but how will such a strong-willed person become no one? Sounds like quite a fight against herself



Cercei's walk: Yes I agree it was very long, could have been shorter, an orgy of humiliation, and I guess that was exactly the point. We have all known her for 5 seasons, now compare this walk to everything that happened before and imagine, how her hatred must have burned in her during this long long awful walk, and how her hatred will burn in the next season…



Cercei’s return to the palace: I need to re-watch the episode, but it definitely felt there is something very wrong. With the Grandmaester’s look, this silent giant, her uncle over-friendly and over-protective, felt fake, I think huge changes must have happened in the palace and not in Tommen’s / Cercei’s favour…



Also, we have not seen anything of Tommen and Margaery for two(?) episodes.



Jaime/Myrcella: I’m not surprised. The sudden change in Ellaria last episode, was just to easy, not credible, it was clear something bad was going to happen. Will Jaime or Trystane have antidote (they all, at least Doran, should be smart enough to know Ellaria a bit and have taken precautions). Will Trystane blame Jaime and kill him? Will Jaime take Trystane hostage to have a token for revenge? Will they both turn the boat to turn against Ellaria? Will Ellaria also kill Doran and rule, open a new front on the Lannisters?



So so many questions, so so many possibilities, and so so many months until season 6...


Edited by valirpaz

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Love how she used the poison... Maybe Tyene made it?



Funny how Tyene taunted Bronn by saying he wanted a nice woman but needs the bad... Yeah. Seems like Tyene will have a future in the show as she's the only one that really seems to be standing out from her sisters.



I assume Stannis lives... Would be sad if he was killed off as such as he's the the rightful King.


Edited by Sardorim

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Ollie is a little faggot, hope they throw him off the wall, that is all

Ollie could not deal with the loss he suffered and turned it into hatred. His reaction is more understandable than your statement and choice of words.

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Why is Stannis so dumb? I thought he was the greatest commander in all of Westeros?


  • He doesn't realize 20 men sneaking up on him and setting horses on fire
  • He doesn't realize half of his men leaving with all his horses
  • He doesn't realize that a massive cavalry is in front of him on the field until it's too late

If Stannis is the greatest commander in Westeros, Westeros doesn't stand a chance against the horsemen of the East. The armies of Essos are much more intelligent then the idiots of Westeros.


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Ok, I have to admit there are some scenes in the GoT season 5 finale which may annoy you, but not all is that bad.

- First, the battle of Winterfell.. I always thought that Stanis was a reasonable military commander... sometimes you should stay in bed if the day starts that shitty

- Mycella, after a touching scene with her daddy she collapsed.. I think there is a small possibility that Bron took the anti-dope from his "friend" when they said goodbye but I have to admit it is a very small chance. Especially as you see the anti-dope around Tyene's neck back at the docks.. however, we lived nearly 5 seasons without Mycella and I am sure we can live on without her

- Sansa and Theon.. back in Season 3 or 4 Maester Luwin told Theon how to escape from Winterfell through a secret tunnel.. why the hell didn't he use this option... I mean, jumping from a wall into nothing seems a bit... unreasonable

- Jon Snow, try your tears, he is not dead, I am sure he will return somehow. First, Melisandre returned right before he got stabbed (why did she return by the way). Second, in season 3 or was it 4 (I always mix them up) they showed some crazy abilities of red priests in the form of resurrecting people. Something that hasn't been used up to now but still made it into the show. Considering that the show producers reduced the story to its minimum and only information that turns out to be necessary for a storyline is given, I think it is time to use this ability now (Huray). Third, there are too many questions unanswered regarding JS.. especially about his parents and his uncle.
When thinking about the scene of Lord Bailish and Sansa in the catacombs of Winterfell, it more and more turns out that this question will be answered soon.
Fourth, all main characters who had been killed off already have had there "time".. Ned, Cathelyn, Robert Baratheon had there time during the rebellion.. Rob Stark tend to have a short time in the spotlights of Westeros to get the plot started. However, since start of season 4 the "good" main characters had been settled. There are too many visions and hints in the book that Jon's story hasn't been completed yet. Question is only how he will return (I mean in which form)

However, what I am angry about is the weather... when is winter finally comming!!!?? I mean, there had been 8 years of summer when GoT started (a long summer) and a couple of years have passed since. I mean that must be a hell of a winter we have to face when winters are generally longer than summers.

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Maybe a new topic should be created for book readers vs show viewers? And isn't there a separate "How did your non-reader friends react etc..." topic?

As to the show. Wow. Just wow. I am speechless. Once again, I did not see this happen, Jon Snow... one of my most favourite characters.

I completely disagree with your assessment that the episode was not a finale. Maybe there was a bit much going on for one single episode (but then I always would prefer more character/background and less action), but overall exactly because of this it was (strategically thinking) a great finale. Essentially all threads were very intense, developed, and all have open ends, keep you wondering, even if you like only one house / storyline - you will be excited for the next season, no?

To expand your summary:

Jon: I agree he must be coming back. The romantics will dream that this was just a nightmare and he'll wake up at the start of next season. I think it is more likely that Melissandre will turn him into something, after all he has royal blood. Would she even have the power to heal him (after all she was quite interested in him). A White Walker resurrection sounds interesting, but he was killed by humans - unless they throw him over the wall which seems not unlikely. But then, shouldn't that be saved for later?

And now, what is going to happen to the Wildlings? A massacre?

So Melissandre. She managed to kill Stannis’ heir and wife, his army, maybe him too. Was her goal the downfall of Stannis all along? Or did she miscalculate her position (not so likely)? Or did she decide against Stannis once she had met Jon?

Death(?) of Stannis, I also agree, not sure. Usually the show quite enjoys graphic killing, so it was definitely a deliberate act to not show it - to keep us wondering. I also tend to think he's dead but who knows? Brienne might think he could be a token to free Sansa...

Sansa / Theon: Same thing - dead or not? You thought it was suicide, possible, I'm more inclined to think escape. It's Winterfell after all, they both know it perfectly (and furthermore in movies there is way too often a conveniently located haystack etc ;)), maybe somebody ended up seeing the candle after all?

Dany’s story: I confess, I always liked it. Now, not a good position for her, if I remember correctly, only a few Dothraki joined her back then, a lot were hostile, right? (Maybe I should re-watch all 5 seasons.) But then, we don’t know what happened with them in the meantime. And certainly a more seasoned queen is returning now.

Tyrion and Varys, great scene, I have grown fond of Tyrion and it will be interesting to see how this interim government will deal with the civil war. Ah, and what will happen to the two remaining dragons?

Arya's story, I’m excited about it too, she’s one of my favourite characters, but how will such a strong-willed person become no one? Sounds like quite a fight against herself

Cercei's walk: Yes I agree it was very long, could have been shorter, an orgy of humiliation, and I guess that was exactly the point. We have all known her for 5 seasons, now compare this walk to everything that happened before and imagine, how her hatred must have burned in her during this long long awful walk, and how her hatred will burn in the next season…

Cercei’s return to the palace: I need to re-watch the episode, but it definitely felt there is something very wrong. With the Grandmaester’s look, this silent giant, her uncle over-friendly and over-protective, felt fake, I think huge changes must have happened in the palace and not in Tommen’s / Cercei’s favour…

Also, we have not seen anything of Tommen and Margaery for two(?) episodes.

Jaime/Myrcella: I’m not surprised. The sudden change in Ellaria last episode, was just to easy, not credible, it was clear something bad was going to happen. Will Jaime or Trystane have antidote (they all, at least Doran, should be smart enough to know Ellaria a bit and have taken precautions). Will Trystane blame Jaime and kill him? Will Jaime take Trystane hostage to have a token for revenge? Will they both turn the boat to turn against Ellaria? Will Ellaria also kill Doran and rule, open a new front on the Lannisters?

So so many questions, so so many possibilities, and so so many months until season 6...

Great post! Thank you for NOT putting book spoilers in it, as so many others on this site seem incapable of doing.

This was really a great episode. Yes, Cersei's walk of shame burned a bit too much film time, but overall it was excellent.

Pycelle seemed like a changed man when Cersei returned. He stood proud and confident, and was not at all the cowering toad we have seen in so many of the episodes.

As much as I hate Cersei, I hope to see her crush the Sparrow and his friends. I expect the Mountain will lead a vanguard to attack them.

Ellaria's 'playing nice' with Jaime always seemed on orders from the Prince, and her poisoning of Myrcella seems to confirm that. Too bad - I was beginning to like M. (I should know better).

Varys' return was a high point for me. I love the banter between him and Tyrion - some of the best in the series.

Melissandre's actions were very interesting. After the finale, I think she knew Jon was the One when she met him/tried to lay with him at the Wall. She seemed shocked when she saw the mutiny in Stannis' camp, but that might have just been normal shock and realization she needed to get out of Dodge.

Predictions:

Stannis is dead. The Hound is dead. Jon Snow will be brought back by Melissandre. Davos will commit suicide when he learns what Stannis did and the results. Varys and Tyrion will gain control of Mereen from the Harpies. They will release Dany's other two dragons, and the three will join up and burn the Dothraki holding Dany. Dany will return to Mereen, grab her people and armies and head for Westeros.

Season 6 is going to be great.

Edited by Desiato

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