[Book Spoilers] EP510 Discussion

[Attitude]

Well, Jon Snow "death" troubles me a bit, since the rest of characters besides Daenerys neverending quest to Westeros and Tyrion ( at times ) are not interesting for me at all .Bran will be stuck in a tree for all his life, I dont see Arya's journey ending well either, and the Lannisters are pretty much defeated. The Martells are a caricature, and so are the Tyrells. And I wont even start with Sansa's storyline.

We'll see if that interview is really true , if it is , they will have to come up with something really good to make people watch this show. ( they didnt even included Faegon or LS, no Manderly? )

I think I'll root for the white walkers now.

Who knows.. maybe GRRM told them that the WW will eventually conquer earth. The game of thrones is just a filler and Dany staying in Mereen was good for her. In tWoW the WW will conquer entire Westeros because Melisandre was too stupid to see Jon Snow was AAR. But because the NW stabbed him to death, he now is death and their only chance against the WW is gone. Once Westeros is entirely dead Dany will try to conquer it from the WW again. When she sees her cause is lost because she can't win she will fly on Drogon into the sun and into her death. End of story.

[intheswamp]

It would funny if Winds comes out before next season and reveals that Jon returns after all the talk from Kit and D&D that Jon was gone.

Edited June 15, 2015 by intheswamp

[lancerman]

It would funny if Winds comes out before next season and reveals that Jon returns after all the talk from Kit and D&D that Jon was gone.

I'm sure that regardless Jon's going to come back at some point. And I think most people would rather find out in the books. I know I would.

[ununsullied]

Say what you want about D&D, the quality of the episode or the whole season, but they just gave GRRM the opportunity to tell the fate of the main characters before the show does. They could've spoil everything and they choose not to at the risk of a very, very bleak ending. Really counting on a WoW release next year now.

Hello, this is a very good point. D+D left everything hanging, didn't spoil some plot lines - so that GRRM could be the first to tell the story.

I am new and unsullied (have only read 1.5 books), but I have been reading this forum this season and I just had to join to comment -

I have been reading over and over about the stabby stabby on here and then there is actual shock that he is killed and not coming back… of course he is

spoiler alert -

'Jon always comes back' and besides if Jon and Tyrion turn out to be Targaryens they will be related to Dany and ride the other two dragons to fight against the WW

And Sansa can't die, she must end up on the Iron throne with her husband Tyrion.

I watched this episode twice and the second time it felt much better. I loved it when Theon suddenly pushed Myranda when she started to taunt Sansa about what Ramsay was planning to do with her private parts - that was too much for him to bear.

Cersi's walk was fantastic. I hate Cersi but at the end I shed a tear for her, I think it was that lovely music, similar to the Red Wedding.

I felt Arya's scene with Trant was rushed. We were straight in with the three girls and it was too fast - but see! No sex with young girls, no nudity or worse.. I was glad as there have been so many rape scenes.

I really didn't want Sansa to get raped. Mainly because that really did break her marriage to Tyrion, and stopped her from ever being Elizabeth 1 the virgin queen.

[Attitude]

It would funny if Winds comes out before next season and reveals that Jon returns after all the talk from Kit and D&D that Jon was gone.

If tWoW will come out before S06 (I hope and think so), and it reveals that Jon survived, he can still be killed of in the Show.

[JonSnowed]

Its like only the worst characters are allowed to survive in Game of Thrones,

Lol " All Good Men Must Die" justice is never freaking served

Exactly that's what I am p1ssed off about. I know some characters are very grey and switch sides (Jamie/Dany/Stannis) but apart from Tyrion there are literally no 'good' guys left. From the main character lists (POVs from first book) you have the following:

1) Dany - Granted she has a fan base but she comes across a petulant and ignorant brat. There is simply no way she sweeps everyone aside and saves the day and I lost interest in her story from season 2/3 or Clash of Kings. She's been stuck in Meereen generally annoying people and now is stuck alone with the Dothraki, at very best she comes to Westeros end of next season but I wouldn't rule out a death if Jon is truly dead.

2) Tyrion - my only favourite character remaining (Jon/Oberyn being the others), now siding with Dany but at least telling her a few home truths, still being around her and stuck in Meereen his less interesting.

3) Sansa - I've always found her chapters some of the dullest in the books and now she is on the run in the North along with Reek and few allies left. I genuinely don't see where she is headed at the moment apart from a death next season.

4) Arya - I like her but I'm not absorbed enough for her to be the main protaganist, I think she will kill Dany or maybe Cersai and walk off into the sunset at the end.

Jamie/Cersai - not POV at the start of the books, I don't see either making it to the end and surely one is dying next season.

Reading the above sounds bleak but I see no hope unless Jon returns or no real plot lines of interest.

[AriStark]

The most underwhelming season finale so far, if you ask me... But the whole season was pretty good, except -
I'm so disappointed with the whole Dorne storyline, what they did to those characters is too much for me to bear... #ArianneComeBackAndSaveUsFromThisMess
Oh, and I forgot about "Sansa in the Winterfell" storyline - an awful, illogical mess! I thought everything will be cleared for us as the season progressed, but oh boy was that wishful thinking!
Praying to the old gods and the new ones that the 6th season will be much more satisfying

[pandagod]

Who knows.. maybe GRRM told them that the WW will eventually conquer earth. The game of thrones is just a filler and Dany staying in Mereen was good for her. In tWoW the WW will conquer entire Westeros because Melisandre was too stupid to see Jon Snow was AAR. But because the NW stabbed him to death, he now is death and their only chance against the WW is gone. Once Westeros is entirely dead Dany will try to conquer it from the WW again. When she sees her cause is lost because she can't win she will fly on Drogon into the sun and into her death. End of story.

haha , well that doesnt that bad actually.

[pandagod]

The most underwhelming season finale so far, if you ask me... But the whole season was pretty good, except -

I'm so disappointed with the whole Dorne storyline, what they did to those characters is too much for me to bear... #ArianneComeBackAndSaveUsFromThisMess

Oh, and I forgot about "Sansa in the Winterfell" storyline - an awful, illogical mess! I thought everything will be cleared for us as the season progressed, but oh boy was that wishful thinking!

Praying to the old gods and the new ones that the 6th season will be much more satisfying

You'll have to burn a lot of Shireens for that...

[The Emberheart]

If Sam reaches Old Town, given how the Sand Sisters still play a role, we can bet on meeting Sarella/Alleras there.

[Rikimaru05]

As non-book reader i am so glad about this episode , i rated it 9/10 (10 was for ep 8)

The tears from the book readers , the anger , such a great feeling.

Now finaly after 5 years i wont read their high horse spoilers on facebook and forums and stuff how they know everything .....

Their dreams and hopes burned like little princess..... Long live the show !

[The Ghost of Rhaegar]

The book and the show are basically caught up now, and I just have to say, the book story is far better than the show. There has been a bunch of stupid thing going on in the show, especially this season when they diverged from the books so much. This stuff is hard to defend.

I am of course no the first person to say/think this, but this is the first time i have really made a judgement about it. I am going back to read all the books again to cheer me up. This season was nonsense.

[The Ghost of Rhaegar]

As non-book reader i am so glad about this episode , i rated it 9/10 (10 was for ep 8)

The tears from the book readers , the anger , such a great feeling.

Now finaly after 5 years i wont read their high horse spoilers on facebook and forums and stuff how they know everything .....

Their dreams and hopes burned like little princess..... Long live the show !

At least someone enjoys the nonsense these guys threw up on the screen this season... even if it sounds like it was mostly out of spite. lol. Keep in mind not all book readers spoiled things for anyone.

[dannyk65]

The most underwhelming season finale so far, if you ask me... But the whole season was pretty good, except -

I'm so disappointed with the whole Dorne storyline, what they did to those characters is too much for me to bear... #ArianneComeBackAndSaveUsFromThisMess

Oh, and I forgot about "Sansa in the Winterfell" storyline - an awful, illogical mess! I thought everything will be cleared for us as the season progressed, but oh boy was that wishful thinking!

Praying to the old gods and the new ones that the 6th season will be much more satisfying

But that's about half of the entire season......

[JonSnowed]

Well, Jon Snow "death" troubles me a bit, since the rest of characters besides Daenerys neverending quest to Westeros and Tyrion ( at times ) are not interesting for me at all .Bran will be stuck in a tree for all his life, I dont see Arya's journey ending well either, and the Lannisters are pretty much defeated. The Martells are a caricature, and so are the Tyrells. And I wont even start with Sansa's storyline.

We'll see if that interview is really true , if it is , they will have to come up with something really good to make people watch this show. ( they didnt even included Faegon or LS, no Manderly? )

I think I'll root for the white walkers now.

Again I fully agree with this, you just don't kill your main protaganist 3/4 of the way through your story, he has to come back or the whole story becomes a right off. Like I said elsewhere I know she has her followers but Dany equally has many detractors and her riding in to save the day is so out of place with the story up until now. Also there is a huge power vacuum in the north an army of white walkers and the Boltons in charge with nobody to stand up to them...

[ThePrunesThatWasPromised]

So did Brienne give Stannis a red smile?

[falcotron]

I sometimes wish that the show was made by a really bad production team. Think Xena or Vikings or Black Sails.

Comparing Xena to Vikings is like comparing Tromeo and Juliet to the modernized Othello with Julia Stiles that I forget the name of. Vikings tries very hard to be good and fails badly. Xena tried very hard to be fun and succeeded pretty well. When Rob Tapert created Xena, he had three goals:

• To make an over-the-top, intentionally anachronistic, tongue-in-cheek series.

To prove that you can do fantasy with virtually no budget.

To get into Lucy Lawless's pants.

Which one of those did he fail at?

That being said, a Rob Tapert (or even Sam Raimi) adaptation of ASoIaF would be pretty bad…

[Brienne the Wench]

As non-book reader i am so glad about this episode , i rated it 9/10 (10 was for ep 8)

The tears from the book readers , the anger , such a great feeling.

Now finaly after 5 years i wont read their high horse spoilers on facebook and forums and stuff how they know everything .....

Their dreams and hopes burned like little princess..... Long live the show !

I never gave any spoilers! In fact, it was just too much fun watching the reactions of the Unsullied! :-P Not everyone was being arrogant about having read the books, we were just enjoying it, too! With a little more insight into the future, no big deal. And I wouldn't say any of my hopes have been dashed! I don't think The Bastard of Winterfell has breathed his last! I have faith :-) And just remember, if book 6 comes out in the next year (MIRACLE!), it will start all over again! LoL

At least someone enjoys the nonsense these guys threw up on the screen this season... even if it sounds like it was mostly out of spite. lol. Keep in mind not all book readers spoiled things for anyone.

I liked it! Haha but I agree, I never spoiled anything!

[obsessedwithjon]

I have been waiting so long for the FTW scene to get hints of what happens next and was utterly disappointed at the lack of any satisfying information there.

However, regarding Mel, these posts have listed lot of ideas on why Mel booked it to Castle Black when she did.

It's simple. In the show, she tells Stannis she knows he will win because she saw Bolton banners on the ground, but she doesn't see what banners are flying. In the book, she tells Jon that the Lord of Light never shows anything but the truth, but rather that the fallible reader might misunderstand them. (For example, in the book, her vision about the girl on the dying gray horse was accurate, but she wrongly interprets it as Arya.) So when she hears that half of Stannis' men have deserted, she realizes that she misunderstood this vision, that it is not Stannis who defeats the Boltons. She is not fleeing because she would be killed by Stannis' men; there are plenty of men at Castle Black who hate her too. She is on a mission to get back to Jon because finally some of her other visions make sense and she has to serve the Lord of Light in bringing AA (i.e. now Jon) to the throne. Worth noting here too that in the books she has seen the vision of Jon being stabbed with multiple daggers. Who knows what she has seen in the show, but it could easily include this. By this point in the book she has already had hints that Jon = AA but she at first doesn't know how to interpret them. ("All he shows me is Snow" or something close to that.) So basically when she hears about the desertion, which wasn't part of her visions, everything clicks in how she has been interpreting things wrong. She definitely did not kill Shireen for Jon (intentionally, though I suppose it could help unexpectedly if she was misinterpreting the visions that told her to do it).

And Jon probably is technically "dead" but that doesn't matter. Lord Beric said in the show that he had actually died all those times and that the Lord of Light brought him back, not that he saved his life. In the books, it is foreshadowed that Jon's body rests in the ice cells or under the wall for a while. It is possible that his body is there for all of season 6, though that seems idiotic. However, I agree with previous posters that there has not been enough foreshadowing in the show to have it mak sense to him warg into Ghost, which would be consistent with him not calling for Ghost (and for Ghost more or less being non-existent in Season 5). In the show, it will have to be Mel that brings him back.

Did anyone else feel like the entire purpose of Sam in the last 8 episodes was simply to deliver the line "He always comes back"?

[shahid-pk]

if the idea of the writers show or book is that heroes/good people do not exist in real life and all they get is betrayal and the pointy end. I am sorry this is not what history has taught me and this is not what i saw in my own life. Seriously how many great kings and conquerors we know that were good people and successful (thousands of ) . If all the books and show want to give me is that human being is utterly harmful and hopeless creature in real life i am saying sorry mate that must be fantasy.Because in reality i know their is no Elsa or Gandalf the grey but in reality their was Gandhi, their was lincoln, their was mandella, their were many slave who later became kings , their was Qudbudin Aibak (a slave of Ayaz who became the king) and before him in that so called slave king dynasty Ayaz was the king who was also a slave of Mahmood of Ghazni (Ghazni is a city in Afghanistan) . The slave king dynasty of Afghanistan and subcontinent of Asia is one Big slap on the faces of these writers if and only if they want to give us the impression that in real life good people are all betrayed and killed and you really need to be gray to become a successful person, king or soldier or god damn it even a farmer or cook. But if this is a fantasy a dark fantasy as one in which good gets the beating all the time instead of bad than i am in it because it is different but just stop giving me the shit excuse that this character died because he was too good of a person and this does not work in real life no way man.