Jump to content

[Book Spoilers] EP510 Discussion


Ran
 Share

Recommended Posts

Thank you for recognizing that. JCRB knows full well that I didn't know, have reason to know, or actually believe s/he needed treatment and was just using an idiom that means "calm down". And I got a Warning point.

Wonder if the trolls who call D&D pedos and Pervs get warning points. They are actually serious.

I got a warning point for calling someone "boring" who suggested Martin himself were a pedo.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't want to belabour the point, but we aren't supposed to discuss moderation of posts. Or make personal attacks against other board members (the latter not addressed to WoW, but something I saw when reading the thread).

Anyway, I didn't enjoy this epsisode, I make no pretence about that. I did, however, think Cersei's Walk of Shame was well done. There was some stuff in her confession that was a bit sloppy (she confessed to treason, why is she allowed to live?) but I was able to pass over that. But Lena was phenomenal, acting-wise. And the scene where she arrives back at the RK was great too. As Robert Strong carried her off I could practically hear the "Oh yes." From the books. Minor quibble with the scene would be that the Septas disrobed her, instead of her doing it herself. That would have shown her proud and confidence at the start, only to be broken by the end...but yeah, in the grand scheme of things that is put much. Still have problems with the Faith Militant being overly brutal in the show but I've just come to accept that and try to ignore it.

Dany's scene was...ugh, awful. Nothing at all on her last chapter in Dance. I mean, I know it's very internal, that chapter, but there are ways to express what happens there. Have her hallucinate Jorah and talk to Iain Glen (as she does in the book) or Daario, or someone. Have her talk to Drogon about it. Anything. That chapter is extremely important in terms of her character, and it is such a shame they missed the mark with it. As for the whooping Dothraki whirlpool (do they surround every potential slave with the entire khalasar?), well, it was pretty ridiculous.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's explained in the Inside the episode thing. She drops it so she can be tracked, like a bread crumb. I'm sure there will be a scene next season where Daario and Jorah come across it and know they're on the right track (as unlikely as that is lol).

Well, they might look for a big burned spot with scattered bones ..........

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why would Alliser Thorne stab Jon. He despises him but he would never do this. Epic fail.

I agree. I think Alliser Thorne is such an interesting character they've developed in the show. They've added so many more layers to the character that he has easily risen to being one of my favourites; however it feels like the show pigeon-holed themselves into using Alliser in this scene because Bowen Marsh was never developed and they had to use some of the known faces in The Watch to make that same impact (for some reason that includes using the boy steward of Jon, as for why I have no idea. At a guess I would say he is play-mates with the child of someone important in the show.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh really? You mean all the folk that think Stannis is a really nice stand up guy don't exist?

No, they definitely exist. But Littlefinger does not have that kind of fandom.

People are still whining that LF wouldn't possibly send Sansa to Winterfell because he is Mr NHG.

I've never seen a single person say that.

When the first episode implied his plan, every unsullied person I know immediately understood that LF was sending Sansa to Winterfell, and the only argument was whether he was overconfidently assuming his protege Sansa could take down the Boltons or callously using Sansa as a pawn to mislead the Boltons.

Many book fans refused to believe it, of course, but not because they think he's a nice guy. It's just because that's not what happens in the book. And, if you press them, because it would be a stupid plan unless he had the whole Vale behind himwhich he does on the show, but that can't possibly be true because that's also not what happens in the books.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also, in the book, the brothers assassinate Jon because he is deserting the night's watch to go participate in a political war. In the show they murdered him because they were butthurt about wildlings, even though they have proof that Jon's decision was the best option by far.


Edited by Grizzly Mormont
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't even see the point in discussing the episodes anymore. Certain people hate the way the show has gone, others think that legacy book readers are too negative and that the show is the best things since sliced bread... and never the twain shall meet.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jon isn't going to marry his Aunt.

Oddly, I think it'd be interesting if he and SANSA got together once it came out.

:)

That would be DELICIOUSLY messed up.

Next week, on Game of Thrones: Jon lets slip to Sansa that he's not really her half-brother, he's just her cousin (even though they were raised as brother and sister since she was born). And then he takes her to the theater to see the new Tyroshian play, Les Demifrères Dangereuses, and this happens.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

How do you know Stannis and Shireen dies in WoW? If you say they are because you saw it on the TV show you aren't basing it on anything canon.

GRRM told D&D that they die in the books. They told the world that he told them that. He confirmed it. So, unless he changes his mind somewhere between now and the time he finishes the book, I think it's safe to say that they die.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's an awful lot of anger floating around here today.



For me it's just disappointment.



To go from S01E01 - pretty much an exact retelling of the first 3 or 4 chapters of GoT - to this season, feels wrong.



D&D were handed a masterpiece and turned it into amateur hour. Reminds me of the Spanish woman who 'retouched' the painting of Jesus Christ.



-------------------------------



Some of the differences from the books were understandable, some of them were even enjoyable, but this season (hardhome aside) they were appalling.



-------------------------------



On another note; Has anyone ever explained why they dropped 'The Rhoyner' out of the Kings title?



Robert Baratheon, first of his name, King of the Andals, the Rhoyner and the first men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms and Protector of the Realm.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wait, some of you actually believe Stannis is dead? No, he's not. There was some gruesome death


scenes and his fades to black? Right. The way Brienne screamed it's like something


"got" her. Could it be Pod? hmmmm



The shock of Jon's death is slowly dying, and now my favorite thing is reading what people think will happen


to Jon. The producers of the show already, in their own way, shown they don't care what people want...


they do as they please aka Benjen...



I still feel like this show will now sink. There's no one to stand higher than Jon. When Ned was killed his son Rob


Stark pushed up in ranks (and he was one of my favorite) so when him and his mother were slaughtered-Jon


took his place. When Joffrey was killed-Ramsey (though it's not the same) It appears there's no one-and I mean no one-to even


come close to Jon. Most of the remaining characters are "side kicks" and stale....no leading character. That's why I fell


for Benjen coming back-he would be my pick for someone to take control of the show....but I now firmly believe Benjen is dead.

Edited by jenniferashley99
Link to comment
Share on other sites

D&D were handed a masterpiece and turned it into amateur hour.

-------------------------------

AFFC was about as far from a masterpiece as it's possible to get. ADWD better but still far from a masterpiece. It's a mess of book. D&D had poor source material to work with for this season and managed to vastly improve a fair bit of it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also, in the book, the brothers assassinate Jon because he is deserting the night's watch to go participate in a political war. In the show they murdered him because they were butthurt about wildlings, even though they have proof that Jon's decision was the best option by far.

The plans for the "assassination" of Jon started long before the Pink Letter in the books. What they tried to do was murder in the books as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When Jon tells Sam that it's not like they have a mountain of obsidian or something like this if i remember correctly, didn't any of you thought immediately at Dragonstone ? I did, and even thought Sam's reply will be in reference to this.


Edited by GeorgeIAF
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wait, some of you actually believe Stannis is dead? No, he's not. There was some gruesome death

scenes and his fades to black? Right. The way Brienne screamed it's like something

"got" her. Could it be Pod? hmmmm

The shock of Jon's death is slowly dying, and now my favorite thing is reading what people think will happen

to Jon. The producers of the show already, in their own way, shown they don't care what people want...

they do as they please aka Benjen...

I still feel like this show will now sink. There's no one to stand higher than Jon. When Ned was killed his son Rob

Stark pushed up in ranks (and he was one of my favorite) so when him and his mother were slaughtered-Jon

took his place. When Joffrey was killed-Ramsey (though it's not the same) It appears there's no one-and I mean no one-to even

come close to Jon. Most of the remaining characters are "side kicks" and stale....no leading character. That's why I fell

for Benjen coming back-he would be my pick for someone to take control of the show....but I now firmly believe Benjen is dead.

Brienne screams like that most of the time when she fights. Look at her fight with the Hound.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

However, I don't agree with the part that I bolded. I think that's counter to the real world, and also (at least possibly) counter to the themes of the series. While it's certainly true that we see people seizing power through evil and dastardly deeds, those same deeds seem to predictably also be the seeds of an ultimate comeuppance. Tywin is dead because of what he did to Tyrion; Cersei humiliated because of what she tried to do to Margaery; Freys are hunted; Aerys and his family wiped out; there are plenty more examples and trust me, Ramsay will get his.

Evil-doing works in the short run, but you make people hate you and hate has staying power and consequences.

What you're saying is, "Bad guys may conquer the world, but they can't hold it". I'll agree with that, at least usually.

But how does that contradict "Good guys don't conquer the world"?

The people who conquer the world and hold it (at least for their lifetimes)Saul, Alexander, Julius Caesar, Napoleonall of them did things that are pretty hard to justify if you want to see them as Great Noble Heroes; all of them also did some pretty impressive good things for their subjects that no Dark Lord of Evil Evilness would even consider.

And what they did generally was not really "enlightened self-interest" in the normal sense that they calculated that making the realm stable and rich would keep them in power, but it often was self-interest in a twisted sense that they identified themselves with their realms to an abnormal degree. (Timur even made that explicit. When the Spanish diplomats told him he was clever for focusing on the roads because it kept the merchants and pilgrims happy, he told them that was a reason for merchants and pilgrims, not a reason for him; he kept the roads strong for the same reason he kept his bones strong.)

If you're looking for an Aragorn instead of a Babur, you're going to be disappointed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...