[Book Spoilers] EP510 Discussion

[BranDaMan]

When does the Season 6 prediction (spoilers) thread start:-)

[The Kind Nihilist]

When does the Season 6 prediction (spoilers) thread start:-)

Here are my predictions (and I've called them a few months back):

- Brienne murders the fuck out of the North and in her uncontrollable fury smashes the Wall, allowing the Others in.

- Larry finds a dragon-binding horn in Porne and takes Bronn on a sea adventure to Meereen (where they arrive in a couple of episodes, courtesy of a borrowed Batlongship) so that he can become a dragonrider and earn back Carol's respect.

- Batfinger tries to marry Sansa off to an Other, realizing Westeros is theirs for the taking. Sansa complies, as this will empower her even further.

- Tyrion marries Dany, who immediately falls in love with his wit and sainthood, delivers phallic witticisms while riding Drogon and pretty much takes over the show in Meereen. 'Khaleesi' becomes 'Tyrion's girl' for TV viewers. Varys gets retconned so that he had been supporting Tyrion for the Iron Throne all along.

- Sam discovers scrolls alluding to a mysterious seventh Kingdom called the Riverlands. Gilly berates him for believing everything he reads.

- Margery is forced into a walk-of-shame by the Faith. Audiences worldwide applaud as she was always such a mean bitch to Carol.

- Jon actually dies. Olly now commands the Night's Watch.

- Upon Stannis' death at the hands of an increasingly brutified and bloodthirsty Brienne, Davos simply disappears from the plot, having had nothing significant to say or do for the past season and a half.

- Loras bangs a dude. Someone makes a gay joke. Two episodes later, someone keeps making gay jokes about it.

- Vague mention is made of the Tower of Joy in a scene involving a prostitute and a cocumber;

- Euron kicks major ass in every scene he's in and quickly becomes a fan-favourite despite the ridiculous eye-patch.

- Everybody hates Aeron because he gets in the way of Euron's ass-kicking. In season 7 it is revealed that it was mostly Aeron's fault that he got raped by Euron and that Aeron is a hypocrite bigot who takes advantage of little girls. Varys gets retconned once again. He is Kraken through and through. Via a sex scene, Melisansbra is revealed that Euron is Azor Ahai.

- Ellaria Sand dies of syphilis.

[falcotron]

At the end of the day I think the story is about the ice god versus the fire god, and they are manipulating/using the people to battle each other and take over. I personally think the fire god will win out in the end.

You mean R'hllor and the Great Other?

First, why do those gods matter, and not, say, the Drowned God, or the Black Goat?

Second, GRRM has said that the gods aren't real, and what appears to be divine influence is just ordinary magic. Do you think D&D have decided to ignore that, and in their show the gods are real? That's certainly possible, but is there any (on-screen or behind-the-scenes) evidence?

Also think that HBO will do a prequel to game of thrones after this and it will be about young Ned, Littlefinger, the mad king etc, which would be pretty cool!

You think they'll just license the world and characters from GRRM, but not license either of the prequel stories he's actually written (the Dunk & Egg novellas or The Princess and the Queen)?

Even if they don't want to do Dunk & Egg (or GRRM doesn't want them do) and instead want to do a completely new story, I wouldn't want it to be giving the characters of GoT the Smallville/Gotham treatment; there's so many other areas of the world and its history to explore.

[ubermensch]

Here are my predictions (and I've called them a few months back):

- Brienne murders the fuck out of the North and in her uncontrollable fury smashes the Wall, allowing the Others in.

- Larry finds a dragon-binding horn in Porne and takes Bronn on a sea adventure to Meereen (where they arrive in a couple of episodes, courtesy of a borrowed Batlongship) so that he can become a dragonrider and earn back Carol's respect.

- Batfinger tries to marry Sansa off to an Other, realizing Westeros is theirs for the taking. Sansa complies, as this will empower her even further.

- Tyrion marries Dany, who immediately falls in love with his wit and sainthood, delivers phallic witticisms while riding Drogon and pretty much takes over the show in Meereen. 'Khaleesi' becomes 'Tyrion's girl' for TV viewers. Varys gets retconned so that he had been supporting Tyrion for the Iron Throne all along.

- Sam discovers scrolls alluding to a mysterious seventh Kingdom called the Riverlands. Gilly berates him for believing everything he reads.

- Margery is forced into a walk-of-shame by the Faith. Audiences worldwide applaud as she was always such a mean bitch to Carol.

- Jon actually dies. Olly now commands the Night's Watch.

- Upon Stannis' death at the hands of an increasingly brutified and bloodthirsty Brienne, Davos simply disappears from the plot, having had nothing significant to say or do for the past season and a half.

- Loras bangs a dude. Someone makes a gay joke. Two episodes later, someone keeps making gay jokes about it.

- Vague mention is made of the Tower of Joy in a scene involving a prostitute and a cocumber;

- Euron kicks major ass in every scene he's in and quickly becomes a fan-favourite despite the ridiculous eye-patch.

- Everybody hates Aeron because he gets in the way of Euron's ass-kicking. In season 7 it is revealed that it was mostly Aeron's fault that he got raped by Euron and that Aeron is a hypocrite bigot who takes advantage of little girls. Varys gets retconned once again. He is Kraken through and through. Via a sex scene, Melisansbra is revealed that Euron is Azor Ahai.

- Ellaria Sand dies of syphilis.

Really loved it!

[Zelda87]

falcotron,

The great other and yes R'hllor or the force that's behind him, I realize that GRRM says the gods aren't real but I put my money down that it's going in that direction. He also likes to lead us astray and I don't think most people think it comes down to this. Clearly Melisandres lord of light is real, we've seen that power, as well as the power on the other side, white walkers etc. I really feel like it will come down to the two gods/forces, those are the big two. I think the Drowned God and the Black Goat are on a much smaller scale and not in the running. A song of fire and ice after all.

As far as the prequel I'm not sure about the Dunk & Egg novellas or The Princess and the Queen, but they have a lot of solid material if they do the mad king/Roberts rebellion that they could probably do 10 seasons again but not with the novellas. Game of thrones is hugely popular and everyone seems to be doing prequels. Just my thoughts! cheers

[Zelda87]

****I don't think it's simple magic** forgot to add that

[HexMachina]

The books pretty much established that too. Of course the Faith are bound by their own internal rules, however the High Sparrow chooses to interpret them. But beyond that, the only thing stopping the Faith from doing whatever they want was Maegor's edict and Jaeharys's treaty, which Cersei appears to have rescinded. If the King wants to try to enforce his own rules on them, and has the power to do so, of course he can (as Maegor did), but Tommen doesn't seem to be in that position--Mace Tyrell, maybe, but not the King.Back to TV, they pretty much told us the same thing, in a simpler and more direct way, with Tommen realizing that the only way he could directly free Margaery is by having his soldiers attack, which he wasn't willing to do.

Okay? That's pretty much the point I was making. The Faith can snip of Cersei's head for treason, yet she confessed to treason, and they did not. It's one thing to admit to fornication, and another to admit to adultery (the latter of which is treason when you are married to the King)

[falcotron]

Okay? That's pretty much the point I was making. The Faith can snip of Cersei's head for treason, yet she confessed to treason, and they did not. It's one thing to admit to fornication, and another to admit to adultery (the latter of which is treason when you are married to the King)

She confessed to adultery. Did they actually say adultery to the King is treason on the show, or are you just assuming it from the books, or guessing?

More importantly, while treason is the worst possible crime to the State, the Faith may not care about it so much. The Catholic Church (which the show Faith is even closer to than the book version, by a long shot) isn't going to punish you for treason. If that treason involved lying or bearing false witness or something, then they might make you say a few hail marys for penance, but that's about it. (Christianity does tell you to render under Caesar's what is his, but they don't try to enforce that; they assume Caesar can do that for himself.)

[Dolorous Gabe]

Here are my predictions (and I've called them a few months back):

- Brienne murders the fuck out of the North and in her uncontrollable fury smashes the Wall, allowing the Others in.

- Larry finds a dragon-binding horn in Porne and takes Bronn on a sea adventure to Meereen (where they arrive in a couple of episodes, courtesy of a borrowed Batlongship) so that he can become a dragonrider and earn back Carol's respect.

- Batfinger tries to marry Sansa off to an Other, realizing Westeros is theirs for the taking. Sansa complies, as this will empower her even further.

- Tyrion marries Dany, who immediately falls in love with his wit and sainthood, delivers phallic witticisms while riding Drogon and pretty much takes over the show in Meereen. 'Khaleesi' becomes 'Tyrion's girl' for TV viewers. Varys gets retconned so that he had been supporting Tyrion for the Iron Throne all along.

- Sam discovers scrolls alluding to a mysterious seventh Kingdom called the Riverlands. Gilly berates him for believing everything he reads.

- Margery is forced into a walk-of-shame by the Faith. Audiences worldwide applaud as she was always such a mean bitch to Carol.

- Jon actually dies. Olly now commands the Night's Watch.

- Upon Stannis' death at the hands of an increasingly brutified and bloodthirsty Brienne, Davos simply disappears from the plot, having had nothing significant to say or do for the past season and a half.

- Loras bangs a dude. Someone makes a gay joke. Two episodes later, someone keeps making gay jokes about it.

- Vague mention is made of the Tower of Joy in a scene involving a prostitute and a cocumber;

- Euron kicks major ass in every scene he's in and quickly becomes a fan-favourite despite the ridiculous eye-patch.

- Everybody hates Aeron because he gets in the way of Euron's ass-kicking. In season 7 it is revealed that it was mostly Aeron's fault that he got raped by Euron and that Aeron is a hypocrite bigot who takes advantage of little girls. Varys gets retconned once again. He is Kraken through and through. Via a sex scene, Melisansbra is revealed that Euron is Azor Ahai.

- Ellaria Sand dies of syphilis.

All brilliant. The bolded particularly had me in stitches!

The death of the pouty and juvenile Faullaria (and the Sand Fakes for that matter) would be most welcome.

[FantasyFan73]

When does the Season 6 prediction (spoilers) thread start:-)

My prediction (not joking -its what i expect)

S6 E1 Jon is burnt and is gone for good.

The hordes of women with an unhealthy level of investment in Kit Harington cancel their HBO in a fit of rage, expect twitter feeds to be full of 'i quit this show'

Meanwhile, in essos we will be treated to a buddy movie as daario and jorah gallop across grasslands looking for dany, i have a horrible feeling they will find the dropped ring in a LOTR styled sequence.

At the wall, the new POV will be davos and maybee olly.

Cersei will take her revenge, the nun has a horrible fate awaiting her in particular.

Margaery will do the walk of shame, not because it advances the plot but because naked margaery will be good for ratings.

Jaime will turn the ship around and we will have lots more dorne.

__

I hope all of that is wrong, but i can see it.

Edited June 18, 2015 by trw1972

[Ludo Kressh]

My prediction (not joking -its what i expect)

S6 E1 Jon is burnt and is gone for good.

The hordes of women with an unhealthy level of investment in Kit Harington cancel their HBO in a fit of rage, expect twitter feeds to be full of 'i quit this show'

Meanwhile, in essos we will be treated to a buddy movie as daario and jorah gallop across grasslands looking for dany, i have a horrible feeling they will find the dropped ring in a LOTR styled sequence.

At the wall, the new POV will be davos and maybee olly.

Cersei will take her revenge, the nun has a horrible fate awaiting her in particular.

Margaery will do the walk of shame, not because it advances the plot but because naked margaery will be good for ratings.

Jaime will turn the ship around and we will have lots more dorne.

__

I hope all of that is wrong, but i can see it.

No, oh gods no! Please, no more bad pussy, Power Ranger fight scenes and Ellaria's bad haircut. D&D wouldn't be that cruel! :bawl:

[A_Cornered_Wolf]

She confessed to adultery. Did they actually say adultery to the King is treason on the show, or are you just assuming it from the books, or guessing?

More importantly, while treason is the worst possible crime to the State, the Faith may not care about it so much. The Catholic Church (which the show Faith is even closer to than the book version, by a long shot) isn't going to punish you for treason. If that treason involved lying or bearing false witness or something, then they might make you say a few hail marys for penance, but that's about it. (Christianity does tell you to render under Caesar's what is his, but they don't try to enforce that; they assume Caesar can do that for himself.)

While it may not have been explicitly stated in dialogue directly that,"A queen's adultery is treason," the actions of various characters treat it as so, from Jaime and Cersei themselves, to Ned and you can even see it in Robb's speech to Jamie at the beginning of season 2. Its one of those show don't tell things. Some while not explicitly stated as 'treason' it is clearly a crime with dire consequences.

I also think you are bringing in modern concepts of separation of church and state which don't really apply to a culture based on feudal Europe. Remember that whole 'crime against an ordained King is a crime against God' concept?

[Dolorous Gabe]

No, oh gods no! Please, no more bad pussy, Power Ranger fight scenes and Ellaria's bad haircut. D&D wouldn't be that cruel! :bawl:

But... we can't deny Bronn his much needed "bad pussy". How will he survive without it?

[WSmith84]

While it may not have been explicitly stated in dialogue directly that,"A queen's adultery is treason," the actions of various characters treat it as so, from Jaime and Cersei themselves, to Ned and you can even see it in Robb's speech to Jamie at the beginning of season 2. Its one of those show don't tell things. Some while not explicitly stated as 'treason' it is clearly a crime with dire consequences.

I also think you are bringing in modern concepts of separation of church and state which don't really apply to a culture based on feudal Europe. Remember that whole 'crime against an ordained King is a crime against God' concept?

Isn't a Queen's adultery treason in pretty much any medieval monarchy? Let's face it, if a Queen is committing adultery, the legitimacy of her children will be called into question. There's no real way the show can say that it isn't treason and maintain any realism.

[A_Cornered_Wolf]

Isn't a Queen's adultery treason in pretty much any medieval monarchy? Let's face it, if a Queen is committing adultery, the legitimacy of her children will be called into question. There's no real way the show can say that it isn't treason and maintain any realism.

Agreed. It is almost a necessity in any system based on male primogeniture to minimize succession issues and the conflict that comes with it.

[ASongOfWarmWater]

I will actually give the show a lot of credit if they truly kill off Jon Snow. It sounds crappy to kill off a character you have spent years developing, but I think it just adds to the suspense that NO ONE is safe. It's a story driven show with a clear end in sight, not a character driven show like Downton Abbey. Ultimately the characters are just a means to drive the story and the story is larger than any 1 character. I think most shows are too scared to actually kill off a main character, but D&D seem to have the cojones to do it. Ultimately everything happens for a reason on this show and Jon's death will drive something important down the line just as the deaths of Ned Stark, Robb Stark, Khal Drogo, etc. did.

Let's be honest, Jon had become a little too perfect of a character. He was a brilliant fighter, he was the most honorable man in the show, he controlled a Direwolf, he was always right, he banged a hot chick, he had a white walker killing sword, etc. His biggest fault was that he was too kind and too smart and too honorable. In a world full people who skin humans for fun and people get raped and murdered seemingly on a daily basis, Jon Snow was too good to last.

[WSmith84]

Agreed. It is almost a necessity in any system based on male primogeniture to minimize succession issues and the conflict that comes with it.

I just checked the GoT wiki, and it says that Lancel entered a sexual relationship with Cersei following Robert's death. Is this incorrect, or did the writers (once again) forget what has actually been established?

[FantasyFan73]

I will actually give the show a lot of credit if they truly kill off Jon Snow. It sounds crappy to kill off a character you have spent years developing, but I think it just adds to the suspense that NO ONE is safe. It's a story driven show with a clear end in sight, not a character driven show like Downton Abbey. Ultimately the characters are just a means to drive the story and the story is larger than any 1 character. I think most shows are too scared to actually kill off a main character, but D&D seem to have the cojones to do it. Ultimately everything happens for a reason on this show and Jon's death will drive something important down the line just as the deaths of Ned Stark, Robb Stark, Khal Drogo, etc. did.

Let's be honest, Jon had become a little too perfect of a character. He was a brilliant fighter, he was the most honorable man in the show, he controlled a Direwolf, he was always right, he banged a hot chick, he had a white walker killing sword, etc. His biggest fault was that he was too kind and too smart and too honorable. In a world full people who skin humans for fun and people get raped and murdered seemingly on a daily basis, Jon Snow was too good to last.

I understand what your saying, but for myself (and i suspect a lot of people) if you dont actually care about any of the characters then you dont care what happens.

[PatrickStormborn]

I will actually give the show a lot of credit if they truly kill off Jon Snow. It sounds crappy to kill off a character you have spent years developing, but I think it just adds to the suspense that NO ONE is safe. It's a story driven show with a clear end in sight, not a character driven show like Downton Abbey. Ultimately the characters are just a means to drive the story and the story is larger than any 1 character. I think most shows are too scared to actually kill off a main character, but D&D seem to have the cojones to do it. Ultimately everything happens for a reason on this show and Jon's death will drive something important down the line just as the deaths of Ned Stark, Robb Stark, Khal Drogo, etc. did.

Let's be honest, Jon had become a little too perfect of a character. He was a brilliant fighter, he was the most honorable man in the show, he controlled a Direwolf, he was always right, he banged a hot chick, he had a white walker killing sword, etc. His biggest fault was that he was too kind and too smart and too honorable. In a world full people who skin humans for fun and people get raped and murdered seemingly on a daily basis, Jon Snow was too good to last.

I can't speak for whatever this show has become, but ASOIAF is certainly a character-driven story, even if the story is an epic tale. When GRRM originally pitched the series he even specified that five characters would not die - Jon Snow, Daenerys Targaryen, Tyrion Lannister, Bran Stark, and Arya Stark (presumably he meant that they will all survive until the endgame, not "they will all live until the series is complete"; and I would also assume that Sansa got promoted to this level at some point). That may very well have changed, but the structure of the series suggests that the survival of those characters is important.

And I have to admit, I really, really, really despise this trend of worshipping TV shows that kill characters seemingly at random. It's not "OMG BRAVE" - it's usually a sign of poor storytelling, bad characterisation and moronic writing. I understand that it's a big reason so many people watch The Walking Dead, for example, but for me it was the reason I eventually quit the show. Particularly because not any character could actually die in TWD (Rick and Carl are pretty much safe for most of the show, for example, unless there are contractual disputes somewhere down the road). The same is true of GoT. Daenerys and Tyrion need to be kept alive until they at least reach Westeros, and then they presumably need to do something in Westeros to justify their journeys. Similarly, Jon Snow needs to remain in the story, otherwise the mystery of his parentage was unneccessary and poor storytelling.

The only "perfect" character in this show is Saint Tyrion, who can do nothing wrong apparently.

[Cas Stark]

And I have to admit, I really, really, really despise this trend of worshipping TV shows that kill characters seemingly at random. It's not "OMG BRAVE" - it's usually a sign of poor storytelling, bad characterisation and moronic writing.

Preach it brother. We've lost the middle.

We've gone from Gary Cooper/Tom Cruise never get killled to the way to get props is fucking kill people at random to generate buzz for the hell of it, whether it make sense or not.