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[Book Spoilers] EP510 Discussion


Ran
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Hallam, are you sure of this? There was a rich vein of popular literature in 19th Century and nearly all of it is forgotten. The classics are not. Same goes for early 20th Century. Hell, even the mid-20th Century popular novels are forgotten.

I just took a peek at the top ten selling books of all time, and was surprised to find i read most of them at school as part of the curriculum - unsurprisingly the only ones in the top ten we were not required to read were the two fantasy books.

So yes i would say the true classics dont disappear over time.

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What Dolorous Gabe said. And she can always use it as a method of mutually assured destruction. And even leaving out an angry Sansa (assume she either dies or is too stupid to be angry at LF) she offers no benefit in Winterfell. Again, it's not about LF really caring about her (I have no doubt he'd cut her throat if the price was good enough) but about him not risking a piece needlessly.

Maybe LF didn't anticipate a letter from Cersei, but surely he intended to tell her about the marriage regardless. Because otherwise he was relying on a Stannis victory to potentially get anything out of the Sansa-Ramsey marriage. Without telling Cersei, he doesn't have the Crown's permission to take the Vale armies North, nor does he get the reward of Warden of the North from Cersei.

I went back and looked over some of the scenes (hard to believe that spread across so many episodes). He stopped before Winterfell and gave Sansa the option to return to the Vale. She got on her horse and led the way, after a lot of hard thought. I think that was LF making sure that this was somehow her decision, even though he is obviously manipulating her.

As for her coming up with the story about LF killing Lysa, I am not even sure that would affect LF. He has been cleared, and now he is the unquestionable Lord of the Vale. Despite being a Stark, I think it would be a bigger plot hole for her to even consider reversing her testimony. She could be killed for her treachery before her new testimony would even be considered.

As for the Bolton's I don't think we know everything about what Roose promised LF in exchange for Sansa. And when LF talked to Ramsey, he said that Ramsey is an "unknown" quantity. Whether I believe that last part or not, I don't think that LF cares too much what happens to Sansa in her marriage to Ramsey, and he probably believes that there is no risk of anyone killing Sansa as the Bolton's need her alive so much.

Granted, I am just a show watcher, not a book reader. :idea:

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Making fun of someone's mental illness because they don't like a show you do? That's a might bit cuntish don't you think?

Also book readers should really take stock in the type of people who are critiquing them, people with names like khal boner or 420, we're you really expecting them to be intelligent in any way.

Spilt peas there is only a level you can to without sounding completely fucking ridiculous and you reached that level. Brienne was better in the show? Literally all she did was accidently stumble upon a main character and then sit outside a castle for 8 episodes. That'd better than her fighting biter?? I refuse to believe that any sane person would believe that her killing a wounded man is more exciting than her killing the new hound and then have half her face chewed off. If you want to delude yourself that somehow doing nothing> something then you're clearly just here because you want to bitch about the show haters bitching, which honestly is fucking stupid too "you guys are so full of hate and are soooooh nitpicky, so fuck you guys, let me nitpick your nitpicks and then complain that only an insane loser would continue to rant about something they hate"

Guess what dipshits thats exactly what you're doing when you come here and write 50 posts trying to disparage the people you hate.

It was me. I can say confidently I wasn't making fun of someone's mental illness because I had no idea there even was mental illness. I used a common idiom in a heated discussion. Things like "that's insane". "You're crazy". "That's crazy talk" Etc can be construed as an attacking on someone's mental illness but that isn't the point.

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I just took a peek at the top ten selling books of all time, and was surprised to find i read most of them at school as part of the curriculum - unsurprisingly the only ones in the top ten we were not required to read were the two fantasy books.

So yes i would say the true classics dont disappear over time.

What list?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_books

Original language First published Approximate sales

Don Quixote (Don Quixote) Miguel de Cervantes Spanish 1605 315 million[citation needed]

A Tale Of Two Cities Charles Dickens English 1859 200 million[5]

The Lord of the Rings

(published as a series) J. R. R. Tolkien English 19541955 150 million[6]

The Hobbit J. R. R. Tolkien English 1937 140.6 million[7]

Le Petit Prince (The Little Prince) Antoine de Saint-Exupéry French[Note 1] 1943 140 million[8][9]

Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone J. K. Rowling English 1997 107 million[10]

And Then There Were None Agatha Christie English 1939 100 million[10]

紅樓夢/红楼梦 (Dream of the Red Chamber) Cao Xueqin Chinese 1754[11]1791 100 million[12]

She: A History of Adventure H. Rider Haggard English 1887 100 million[13]

Has Harry Potter, the hobbit, lord of the rings, agatha Christi on it. Hardly academic classics, but definitely well loved books no doubt.

I maintain that popular books do not usually translate to academically acclaimed books. There are exceptions (twain and Hemingway are great exceptions). But it hardly a controversial opinion.

If you think college literature courses are studying popular best sellers, you are just wrong. Now that's not to say there aren't any, but by and large the Venn Diagram of classics and popular best sellers doesn't overlap. (Of course, some books become popular after they are no longer contemporary and only then enjoy higher book sales, eg, Melville).

Edited by Spilt Pea Soup
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It was me. I can say confidently I wasn't making fun of someone's mental illness because I had no idea there even was mental illness. I used a common idiom in a heated discussion. Things like "that's insane". "You're crazy". "That's crazy talk" Etc can be construed as an attacking on someone's mental illness but that isn't the point.

I quoted Shienberg about that and also its a bit different to say this is a bit insane compared too, "oh you have a serious mental disorder, obvs you want an online pity party gtfo" I would never be that fucking heartless when someone has specifically stated that they are struggling with their mental health. And you didn't either, you made an easy claim that wasn't meant to be serious, and after the claim you didn't make fun of him/her about it. Apparently that was a trash person like Shienbergs duty. Honestly he's worse than regular garbage for that, he's the nasty trash water that collects for months at the bottom of a dumpster.

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I quoted Shienberg about that and also its a bit different to say this is a bit insane compared too, "oh you have a serious mental disorder, obvs you want an online pity party gtfo" I would never be that fucking heartless when someone has specifically stated that they are struggling with their mental health. And you didn't either, you made an easy claim that wasn't meant to be serious, and after the claim you didn't make fun of him/her about it. Apparently that was a trash person like Shienbergs duty. Honestly he's worse than regular garbage for that, he's the nasty trash water that collects for months at the bottom of a dumpster.

Yeah. You're right.

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No. Definitely not. In the books its Dany's husband Hizdhar zo Loraq, and in both the show and the books Varys has been the one plotting to reinstall Daenerys on the Iron Throne.

Thank you. I was under the impression that it was an open question in the books so far.

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What list?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_books

Original language First published Approximate sales

Don Quixote (Don Quixote) Miguel de Cervantes Spanish 1605 315 million[citation needed]

A Tale Of Two Cities Charles Dickens English 1859 200 million[5]

The Lord of the Rings

(published as a series) J. R. R. Tolkien English 19541955 150 million[6]

The Hobbit J. R. R. Tolkien English 1937 140.6 million[7]

Le Petit Prince (The Little Prince) Antoine de Saint-Exupéry French[Note 1] 1943 140 million[8][9]

Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone J. K. Rowling English 1997 107 million[10]

And Then There Were None Agatha Christie English 1939 100 million[10]

紅樓夢/红楼梦 (Dream of the Red Chamber) Cao Xueqin Chinese 1754[11]1791 100 million[12]

She: A History of Adventure H. Rider Haggard English 1887 100 million[13]

That's only 9. But then the Bible, the Quran, and the Little Red Book have to push the bottom 3 off anyway, so we don't really need 10? (Plus, without looking, I'd bet #10 is either Narnia 1 or Harry Potter 2...)

Anyway, ignoring Red Chamber (because most Westerners haven't read it), of the 3 "academic classics", The Little Prince is openly fantasy, and Quixote is borderline, and of the 5 "non-classics", the only non-fantasy is a mystery novel, and it comes pretty low on the list. Which is, of course, completely irrelevant to the point under discussion here, but it's interesting nonetheless.

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Hallam, are you sure of this? There was a rich vein of popular literature in 19th Century and nearly all of it is forgotten. The classics are not. Same goes for early 20th Century. Hell, even the mid-20th Century popular novels are forgotten.

I just don't think this holds up. I too love the Beatles more than the Opera, but they inhabit a strange place all of their own, and in any case, music is consumed over and over and over again, in a much different fashion than books are.

Most popular lit is forgotten, certainly.

But the same is even more true of what was fashionable among the lit set of the day. I am pretty sure that there will be more people reading Harry Potter than Gravity's Rainbow in fifty years time. But I am certain that more folk will be reading Potter than the Da Vinci code.

Sherlock Holmes is indisputably a classic these days but it was not regarded as such in its day. Nor was Dickens.

The stuff that survives usually has to be good or cater to some sort of cult.

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Most popular lit is forgotten, certainly.

But the same is even more true of what was fashionable among the lit set of the day. I am pretty sure that there will be more people reading Harry Potter than Gravity's Rainbow in fifty years time. But I am certain that more folk will be reading Potter than the Da Vinci code.

Sherlock Holmes is indisputably a classic these days but it was not regarded as such in its day. Nor was Dickens.

The stuff that survives usually has to be good or cater to some sort of cult.

Definitely have the cult thing going for us around here.

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Interesting tid bit on Tyrion and cersie, In a round about way tyrion has cost cersei two of her childern despite trying to save both them (albiet Joffery was relucant). He sent myrcella to dorne which in the books get's her maimed and in the tv show gets her killed. He also is part of the forged alliance between the Tyrells and littlefinger. I wonder if he will have a role in tommens death in a round about way?


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For some reason, I got the weird vibe that Daario is going to betray Dany from this episode.





Interesting tid bit on Tyrion and cersie, In a round about way tyrion has cost cersei two of her childern despite trying to save both them (albiet Joffery was relucant). He sent myrcella to dorne which in the books get's her maimed and in the tv show gets her killed. He also is part of the forged alliance between the Tyrells and littlefinger. I wonder if he will have a role in tommens death in a round about way?




In the books, if Aegon's invasion leads to Tommen's death, then you could say Tyrion putting the seed into Aegon's head to invade helped lead to it.

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