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[Book Spoilers] EP510 Discussion

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I think she gets out of it easily. If the dothraki know about the dragon, they have come to see it. The rider of a dragon is by any definition the most badass warrior imaginable. Even if the dragon is wounded it may be expected to recover.

Danny is still a Khalessi and entitled to deference and respect as such even without a dragon. So they are not going to kill her on sight.

All she needs to do is to ask the khal to provide food for her dragon and he is putty in her hands.

Is she? A khaleesi who used blood magic, who many blame for getting her khal killed and who isn't with the rest of the widows where she's supposed to be? My guess is that they're not happy with her at all and it's going to take some dragon fire to make it work out in her favor.

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Why the eff would Ramsay NOT seek out Stannis' body? That's like, the number one thing to do. In terms of writing, why would they make Ramsay not be concerned with finding Stannis on the battlefield to confirm the kill?

Don't say "his army is gone so they aren't worried anymore." Anyone would still seek out the leader's body. Especially Ramsay, the sadistic little elf.

Nobody in the TV show seems to care much about Stannis. LF seems to plan to use Stannis as an excuse to intervene in the North. After his defeat on the Blackwater nobody in Kings Landing mentioned him for two seasons. He is just this hopeless rebel on the periphery of the empire, like it was pointed out, the Iron Throne cares nothing for the North. I'd imagine that Ramsey would have people looking for him or his body but with his army defeated he has no value. Shireen would have had more value as a captive than he wouid.

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I think she gets out of it easily. If the dothraki know about the dragon, they have come to see it. The rider of a dragon is by any definition the most badass warrior imaginable. Even if the dragon is wounded it may be expected to recover.

Danny is still a Khalessi and entitled to deference and respect as such even without a dragon. So they are not going to kill her on sight.

All she needs to do is to ask the khal to provide food for her dragon and he is putty in her hands.

Shes entitled to live out her years with the rest of the used up Khalessi's back in Vaes Dothrak. It is well known she killed her Khal with Blood Magic which is highly forbidden by the Dothraki.

She might be looked upon more favorably because she was the great Khal Drogo's wife in which case she becomes a trophy. But her status as Khalessi is moot. They arent going to bow down in front of her.

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Isn't she the one with almost blind faith in Stannis winning? And along with the visions... What if she saw Jon Snow in the fire visions and decided to head out for the wall? She also may have realized that he is the AA and abandoned Stannis because of that.

I think it's pretty clear that's what they're hinting at, but of course we won't know for sure until she tells someone next season.

Remember, most of her visions aren't all that clear, and require interpretation. She doesn't actually see Stannis pulling down the Bolton banners, she just sees the Bolton banners coming down. She doesn't actually see Stannis defeating the White Walkers, just someone wielding a sword against them that they cannot withstand. And so on. Because some of her visions were specifically about Stannis, she's convinced herself that he will be both King and AAR, and then interpreted all of the ambiguous visions in that light. But now, something has convinced her to reexamine all of those visions, and she's realized that they're all consistent with a different interpretation.

We don't know what that new interpretation is, but there are multiple possibilities, and the most obvious one is: Stannis was the rightful king, but he will never sit the throne; his role was to make the ultimate King's Blood sacrifice to allow Jon Snow to be reborn as AA. She could realize this by seeing Stannis's death, or seeing Jon Snow wielding a magic sword against the WW (possibly not even as AAR, just seeing a vision from Hardhome which she again misinterpreted...), or seeing herself resurrecting Jon, or who knows what else.

The books made different parts of this clear in different ways. Because we're looking at interspersed internal monologue rather than an external chronological narrative, we get progressively stronger hints that she's wrong but won't see her realize it until the next book, instead of seeing her realize it but not getting an explanation until next season. (The most obvious hint is when she's talking to Devan and thinks to herself, "I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and R'hllor shows me only Snow". Which is reinforced by the two "all I see is snow" conversations, even if they're more likely about literal snow rather than Jon Snow.)

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Is she? A khaleesi who used blood magic, who many blame for getting her khal killed and who isn't with the rest of the widows where she's supposed to be? My guess is that they're not happy with her at all and it's going to take some dragon fire to make it work out in her favor.

I think this may frame a conflict within this particular Khalassar and the conflict for episode 1, at least.

But many within the Khalassar will have heard of Dany's conquest of Mereen and Astapor and will realize that a Unsullied army may be on the way to find her and destroy them if they harm her.

...and then there is Drogon.

Nobody in the TV show seems to care much about Stannis. LF seems to plan to use Stannis as an excuse to intervene in the North. After his defeat on the Blackwater nobody in Kings Landing mentioned him for two seasons. He is just this hopeless rebel on the periphery of the empire, like it was pointed out, the Iron Throne cares nothing for the North. I'd imagine that Ramsey would have people looking for him or his body but with his army defeated he has no value. Shireen would have had more value as a captive than he wouid.

I'm sure Kevan, Pycelle, Littlefinger are in the know about Stannis. Edited by TheReal_Rebel

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Has anybody figured out how did Mel know Stannis was defeated? If I'm not mistaken she left the camp before Stannis decided to march on Winterfell. And has anybody figured out how did Boltons muster such a large force? Those were at least twice the numbers of Stannis. Have the Stannis sellswords defected? The show explicitly mentioned Stannis losing horses and then suddenly the Boltons have a huge cavalry-only army. Is that a bit of Chekov?

If they did not defect, then how did Stannis even think that he could lay a successful siege to Winterfell? Even with the deserting sellswords he still has inferior numbers to the Boltons.

I think Melisandre finally realized she's been backing the wrong horse all along, and therefore also realizes she's in the wrong place.

As for the numbers, in the books, Bolton has 1,500+ cavalry plus several hundred mounted bowmen and freeriders. Stannis has almost no surviving horse. Stannis's strategy was never anything other than folly. In the show, he believes (or at least concedes to) Melisandre that sacrificing Shireen could make it something other than folly, but he was wrong. Either way, as he told Davos, he was going forward, either to victory or death.

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Plausible. In the books Drogon is with her so I don't see them taking her unwillingly or face being toasted. I see her agreeing to go with them mainly because she is stranded, needs help and Drogon is still untamed.

You're right. They want her to join the dosh khaleen, she doesn't have any other options at the moment, so it doesn't really matter how forceful the invitation is. So we'll have to wait and see the details.

But however it plays out in the books, I think the show will simplify it to her being taken back as a prisoner, because, as you imply, they pretty much have to cram the whole story into (just the Dany segments) of the first episode or three.

Shes entitled to live out her years with the rest of the used up Khalessi's back in Vaes Dothrak.

Entitled, and also obligated. (Shades of Stannis, whose right and duty always overlapped--but, unlike Stannis, she will not just go where they point no matter what.)

She might be looked upon more favorably because she was the great Khal Drogo's wife in which case she becomes a trophy.

I think that just makes placing her among the dosh khaleen even more important. I wouldn't be surprised if the Dothraki believe the greatest seers are the widows of the greatest khals.

But many within the Khalassar will have heard of Dany's conquest of Mereen and Astapor and will realize that a Unsullied army may be on the way to find her and destroy them if they harm her.

Many of the Dothraki may relish the chance to prove themselves in such a battle (while very few of them would fear it enough to admit their fear).

...and then there is Drogon.

... but that one, maybe not so much. :)

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Haven't got through all the pages yet, so this might have come up. Did anyone else think that the septa shouting "Shame!", got a little too much fun during Cersei's Walk of Shame? I swear I saw her smirk a tiny bit after every time she said the word, or something happened to Cersei.

Edited by Lady Snowsand

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If she gets out of it easily, it's a cop out. If she doesn't, she's stuck there for *another* season. UGH.



GRRM might just troll everyone: Jon is dead and Dany never makes it to Westeros.


Edited by Spilt Pea Soup

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Why did Drogon take Dany north? Why not take her to Valyria? Or is this the prophecy about north to south first and then east to west?

Edited by BranDaMan

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Why did Drogon take Dany north? Why not take her to Valyria? Or is this the prophecy about north to south first and then east to west?

I'm not sure Drogon knows or cares about the go east to go west prophecy (although he does know that you have to be cruel to be kind in the right measure, and that it's hip to be square).

My guess is that he smelled yummy horses in the Dothraki Sea, and brimstone and rot in Valyria, and decided to follow his nose.

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I'm not sure Drogon knows or cares about the go east to go west prophecy (although he does know that you have to be cruel to be kind in the right measure, and that it's hip to be square).

My guess is that he smelled yummy horses in the Dothraki Sea, and brimstone and rot in Valyria, and decided to follow his nose.

Haha...That makes perfect sense. I am over thinking what made Drogon fly where he did. I'm just stumped on what's going to happen if Dany heads to Vaes Dothrak.

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Marg may not be guilty of sleeping with Cersei's plants, but I'm pretty sure Marg is sleeping with someone which is still treason for a Queen.

It's okay, treason isn't a death sentence in the Show, for some reason. I mean, Cersei just admitted to treason and she is still allowed to live.

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The Dothraki are rallying around Dany, they know her power and feel she is one of them, plus why start another storyline this late in the story. 2 books, 2 seasons on HBO left, the most that will happen is she has to wait for Drogon to get better.


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It's okay, treason isn't a death sentence in the Show, for some reason. I mean, Cersei just admitted to treason and she is still allowed to live.

The church court doesn't have the power to try a case of treason. Only the adultery part.

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It's okay, treason isn't a death sentence in the Show, for some reason. I mean, Cersei just admitted to treason and she is still allowed to live.

True, but if Robert had been alive, I wonder.

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Haven't got through all the pages yet, so this might have come up. Did anyone else think that the septa shouting "Shame!", got a little too much fun during Cersi's Walk of Shame? I swear I saw her smirk a tiny bit after every time she said the word, or something happened to Cersi.

And it totally looked like the High Sparrow was ogling Cersei's ass as she started her walk.

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