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[Book Spoilers] EP510 Discussion

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Well, that was kind of a trainwreck


D&D have never liked Stannis, and that shines through in this episode. I have no doubt that Stannis will die in the books, but it won't be anything like this. Ridiculous, to the end, from half the army leaving with nobody noticing, to Stannis just walking up to Winterfell, to somehow ending up in the woods completely alone just so Brienne can appear to kill him.


And Sansa's Winterfell story can officially be declared a complete waste of her character development, as she did nothing all season but re-enact her season 2 story, and all the things people suggested might be manipulations were in fact just "cool" one-liners. Apparently, putting a Stark in Winterfell means absolutely nothing.


Arya's storyline finally got good (apart from the scene opening with Meryn beating the three girls; yeesh, why was that necessary? We already know he's a villain), and had a very effective ending.


I thought Cersei's story was also done well, and I found it interesting how the last few episodes have mimicked the books' POV approach, in that we see nothing of King's Landing beyond what she sees.


They botched "For the Watch" completely. If Thorne was going to kill Jon based on the stuff he'd already done, why the hell did he let him through the gates last episode? Because when the Pink Letter is removed, that's all he's acting on.


Oh, and Dorne. Goddamn Dorne, with the Sand Snakes' brilliant plan to get Trystane immediately killed. Though I did enjoy that Bronn survived, validating my conviction the idea that he was going to die based on nothing beyond the fact that Arys Oakheart, a character with no connection whatsoever to Bronn's role in the show, died, was dumb.

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fuck brienne. how is nobody upset that she killed the hound and stannis? i hate that bitch

My prediction. They are both alive. We'll see them next season. In fact, we'll know by August when they start filming. Only gotta wait couple of months to find out. (of course, Jon Snow is alive)

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LOL. Plus, in a year, the dumb viewers will forget that Mel had Stannis burn his daughter alive so he would beat the Boltons...but instead he lost and died, so it will be kewl that she's all mystical and powerful again. Did you notice how in the same scene her clothing appeared to change from black to red? Maybe the crazy prop woman also works lights.

At least her magic serves a purpose! She teleports to Castle Black and she changes dresses! I'm almost betting on show Melisandre becoming the green priestress next year! Oh, the possibilities!

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just finished. that sucked lol



im sure this has been brought up 10000 times but lol why would the sand snakes kill myrcella when jaime literally has the prince of dorne. just the first thing i remembered, but i have 2039483 other issues as well. :)


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What a MESS.

Wow, like they hadn't messed with Jon enough, his death was even lame, D&D have no understanding of Jon.

Traitor on a post? Are you kidding me? At least the shining light proved that he was not "dead".

I was more scared at Hardhome than here; even if that would've gone wayyy off book, that would have been a better way to kill him. Unbelievable.

Mel, RAN??? Where the hell did she go when she arrived at Castle Black? She just walked in? They turned her into a coward?!

HBO Stannis deserved it, thank the Lord we have the real one in the books;

Brienne got her revenge.

Right, because book Stannis is such a nice guy. The one that killed his brother, burned to death his brother-in-law, and was about to burn to death his nephew (Shireen's playmate) until Davos scuttled those plans.

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he's not dead in the books. neither is shireen or selyse.

We actually don't really know about Stannis.

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My prediction. They are both alive. We'll see them next season. In fact, we'll know by August when they start filming. Only gotta wait couple of months to find out. (of course, Jon Snow is alive)

They wait until August? Not doubting you, but I never thought that would be the case. A show this big and far flung, I just always assumed they filmed more or less year round.

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The problem isn't her magic, it never has been.

Mel does have powers. The problem is she's been betting on the wrong horse the whole time. Everyone knows that Stannis is NOT the chosen.

And please understand I'm NOT defending this episode, or the general writing that we've seen since like season two, lol.

Yeah. The neat part is the show Melisandre seems to understand this and for the first time, we see her genuinely afraid for her life. I found that really cool to be honest. She knows she failed. She knows if Stannis lives, hes gonna kill her. She knows if Stannis dies, its her fault. Either way, she knows she done fucked up.

You know, in the episode, Jon gets killed because he favoured the wildlings. Just like in the books.

Yet, it feels so so so so so so so so so so so so different.

This is what happens when you change EVERYTHING preceding the scenes and insist on make the book scenes.

This is for those who keep saying "you book readers just are pissed they make everything different!"

Every scene of this episode WAS FROM THE BOOKS.

But they simply tossed them in the episode without any context or motivation.

I'll say it again

People jump from their seats when the player runs through the goal to score, because they don't know whether he might or might not do it. That's what moves them. Not the score itself. They celebrate or rage about the resolution of the play, but it's the play what gives them feelings.

The thing about Jon was that the situation was entirely different and took away the sense of urgency in the books. While i did like the Benjen nod, it didnt feel like Jon was gearing up to go kick ass and take names with Watch members and wildlings. Therefore it felt a little cheap. The scenes that did feel cool were Cersei's and Dany's. Those, imo, made perfect sense. Arya's did to an extent, but Arya in the books is more subtle and taking her subtlety away bugs me.

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Men... I wish I could pay my debts walking naked around the city...

You can, its in the stimulus act. But you have to do it before sunup on June 15th 2015

I love the way the High Sparrow cons her. She thinks she has got away wiv it and then she finds this is only part one.

Stannis died before Balon. Goddamn it D&D, at least let him technically win TWO5Ks before offing him. Fuck.

Yeah, thats an error IMO. Though it is possible Balon is already dead but we only find out about it next season. Stannis and Mel are actually responsible for the deaths of all five kings:

Renly - shadowbaby

Robb - Leech / Red Wedding

Tommen - Leech / Purple Wedding

Balon - Leech / Falls off walk

Stannis - Army runs away / is routed in wake of Shireen's BBQ, Brienne performs coup de grace

I guess Ramsey was telling the truth in the pink letter? If Stannis isn't dead on the show he might end up playing the role Manc will play in TWoW.

No, I think it clear that the pink letter in the book is a fake from the other watch members to draw him out so he can be murdered.

Olly was a bit of a surprise, waaaay too obvious.

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[email protected] Sam with his little cart off to Oldtown, some 1500 miles away? Have a nice trip! Ta!

Will use the LittleFinger and Melisandre developed Teleporter. Old Town is but a kick of the heels away!

You know, in the episode, Jon gets killed because he favoured the wildlings. Just like in the books.

Yet, it feels so so so so so so so so so so so so different.

This is what happens when you change EVERYTHING preceding the scenes and insist on make the book scenes.

This is for those who keep saying "you book readers just are pissed they make everything different!"

Every scene of this episode WAS FROM THE BOOKS.

But they simply tossed them in the episode without any context or motivation.

I'll say it again

People jump from their seats when the player runs through the goal to score, because they don't know whether he might or might not do it. That's what moves them. Not the score itself. They celebrate or rage about the resolution of the play, but it's the play what gives them feelings.

Yeah I...it was the journey to get there. Its really frustrating that we went this whole season, stumbling from plot to plot to wind up at Episode 10 where there was 50 minutes of crammed in conclusions.

I agree that it felt very messy and just all tossed in for the sake of it at the end.

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I can do it anymore. What they did to the books is horrible. Dorne, without a fucking master plan, Stannis is dead while BALON -Widow-maker- Greyjoy is alive, and OLLY. Jon last word was this kid name!


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1. The lovely momentum of latinoamerican soapopera when "if she only waited for a single second"...


2. Battle that was, well...


3. WoS that had the emotional impact as reading the news of snowing in Siberia.


4. Sansa jumping... Jesus, Mary and Joseph...



Arya was sort of good...



I have no ways to express how bad this season was. And I am genuinely questioning anyone's taste claiming that this was good. We have passed that "opinions are different". Nope. If you liked this, you have a bad taste. That is the point they had brought us.


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Yeah. The neat part is the show Melisandre seems to understand this and for the first time, we see her genuinely afraid for her life. I found that really cool to be honest. She knows she failed. She knows if Stannis lives, hes gonna kill her. She knows if Stannis dies, its her fault. Either way, she knows she done fucked up.

The thing about Jon was that the situation was entirely different and took away the sense of urgency in the books. While i did like the Benjen nod, it didnt feel like Jon was gearing up to go kick ass and take names with Watch members and wildlings. Therefore it felt a little cheap. The scenes that did feel cool were Cersei's and Dany's. Those, imo, made perfect sense. Arya's did to an extent, but Arya in the books is more subtle and taking her subtlety away bugs me.

I can't believe I'm gonna say this... but Dany's scene was great BECAUSE SHE DIDN'T FUCKING TALK.

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I honestly don't get this. Arya is with the FM, Jon is "dead". Cersei took the walk, Robert Strong showed up, Myrcella was killed to provoke a war, Reek is escaping Winterfell, etc. etc.

The biggest departures here are that Sansa was in Winterfell, that Jaime went to Dorne with Bronn, and that Brienne was the one who offed Stannis (though I can't help but notice he didn't die on screen).

Those are fairly minor details. I don't see the sense in changing them, but then I don't have to adapt 1000 page novels for TV either.

Make no mistake: this was a shit season. I still hope they can do better next year though. Especially if GRRM publishes the damn book already.

Nope you're right. Most major characters finished the way they did in the book.

-Jon got stabbed

-Cersie did her walk and got un-Gregor

-Stannis died (sorry this just confirms the Pink Letter is most likely true)

-Theon escaped Winterfell with Ramsay's bride.

-Arya was blinded

-Dany and Drogon are out of Mereen and the Dothraki find them

-Tyrion stays in Slaver's Bay

-Mel is at the wall and free to do whatever she planned on doing their.

The only major characters in different situations are

-Sansa because she took the Jeyne Pool role (otherwise we'd get an ending with her eating lemon cakes

-Jamie, because LSH isn't happening

-Brienne because LSH isn't happening.

Everyone else who is in a different situation is a minor character like Selyse, Myrecella, Kevan and Pycelle

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LoL...maybe Brienne spared Stannis, and by next season's finale, Brienne confesses her love for Stannis...right before LSH hangs them both.


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