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[Book Spoilers] EP510 Discussion

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In the books, Kevan isn't killed by Varys until some time after Cersei's return to the Red Keep. Could be several weeks, but certainly several days later, at the least.



They'll probably drag out the wait for Cersei's trial next season, so Kevan will have some time to try to deal with the death of Myrcella before someone -- Littlefinger??-- decides to off him. Frankly, I figured Varys wasn't going to be killing Kevan once he went to Pentos and Volantis with Tyrion.


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Exactly when there is nobody left to root for the story is done, if Jon Is truly gone then there simply is nobody left.


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D&D are so obviously trolling us at this point. I mean, look at this:

1. It was called "Mother's Mercy", even though the episode had very little to do with that topic. Obviously a troll on the LSH hopefuls.

2. Jon's last word was "Olly", trolling all those who hope he warged Ghost.

3. The Benjen reference... Just to troll those of us who think Benjen still has an important roll to play.

4. Battle Of Winterfell is over in 30 seconds and happens off screen. We've been waiting years to read it, after all that buildup, it's over and like "Eh, oh yeah, Stannis lost."

5. Speaking of Stannis, he (apparently?) dies in the forest somewhere after being found by Brienne. The greatest military commander in Westeros gets beaten by Ramsay Snow, then executed by his gay brother's jilted female groupie.

6. Still in Winterfell, we were all waiting to see Sansa become a player in the game, when she picked up the corkscrew, it was like the ricin in Breaking Bad. "Who's she gonna use it on, who's she gonna use it on???" She used it on..... The door lock. Way to play the game!

7. Robert Strong, instead of his true nature being left mysteriously ambiguous, we see he has a head and even eyes. He looks like Darth Vader under the mask.

Seriously... it seems like D&D don't like criticism and are using the show to bitterly troll those who criticize them. I may be way offbase, but I think there is a fine line between "misdirection" and straight up "trolling." D&D are now crossing that line.

1) Cersei throws herself on the mercy of the mother goddess

2) The warging story was silly

3) No, I think it is because Benjen reappears next season. He is the only Stark left from Ned's generation who might know Jon's parentage.

4) You got a big battle two weeks ago, don't be greedy. The shot on the plains made the outcome obvious.

5) Payback is a bitch

6) Cute, I liked that.

7) That is probably because Dr Who had an episode with headless warrior monks not too long ago.

I thought the show was epic. Nice to see Stannis get his payback so very soon. The evil man loses everything and an ignominious execution.

The idea that Stannis is let off to kill Mel seems silly to me. Stannis does not deserve revenge, he has lost that right. Brienne can slaughter Mel without any help from Stannis. The time has come for him to die.

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Another thing I have a hard time believing that Stannis will be killed by Brienne in the books. Half her neck is gone, if she can survive that why not Jon getting stabbed?


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I kept waiting to see if anyone would stab Jon above the shoulders. If they weren't going to bring him back they would stab him in the neck or the head. All wounds were on the lower part of the body meaning if he was resurrected his scars would be easily concealed.


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I kept waiting to see if anyone would stab Jon above the shoulders. If they weren't going to bring him back they would stab him in the neck or the head. All wounds were on the lower part of the body meaning if he was resurrected his scars would be easily concealed.

I've noticed this as well... It made me think that if they were going to truly kill him off that they would take his head off or something

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In the first season, Bran asks Ned if a man can be brave if he is afraid, and Ned answers that that is the only time a man can be brave.



Azor Ahai cannot be reborn unless he first dies. "Kill the boy." "What is dead can never die."


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I can't help but wonder whats going to happen in King's Landing now. Why did they make the decision to have Varys not kill Kevan and keep him alive to share rule with Cersei?

Because unlike the books Kevan and Pycelle really aren't important enough that anybody would care if they died in comparison to an episode that just offed Stannis and Jon Snow (though Snow isn't really dead).

Personally I thought the only way Kevan in Pycelle get killed is if Tommen went with them. Which would have been good with the death of Myrcella. But he must have a few more important things to do.

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Maybe we all have it completely wrong! Is it possible that the white walkers are the protagonists in Game of Thrones?

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If Ellaria and the Sand Snakes wanted to poison a lannister so bad why didn't she just kiss Jaime?

The #1 Thing that the Sand Snakes want is a war between Dorne and the Iron Throne. If the Lannisters do anything to harm Trystane, boom, mission accomplished. I doubt Doran would take the death of his heir very well.

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Imagine if you know who had book six stashed away all this time and miraculously it comes out now after season 5 is concluded and ... cannot buy better publicity....with HBO not having spoiled anything of relevance for the next novel...can you plan that???


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Overall, great episode. Moved the plot significantly forward and had *some* satisfying conclusions (unlike ADwD).



Looks like the books and shows converge in the same general area w/r most mainline plots.



Loved the acting. Cersei was amazing. Theon is back! Stannis is dead and the pink letter is right. (sorry conspiracytrolls)



We get a fairly straightforward resurrection of Jon by Mel and then back on track. Can't wait for next season. Here's hoping it comes out before the book so the book won't spoil the show.


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Maybe we all have it completely wrong! Is it possible that the white walkers are the protagonists in Game of Thrones?

Yea, I'm starting to root for the White Walkers to kill everyone at this point.

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I've noticed this as well... It made me think that if they were going to truly kill him off that they would take his head off or something

That is why Mel can't resurrect Stannis, she can't put heads back on.

Because unlike the books Kevan and Pycelle really aren't important enough that anybody would care if they died in comparison to an episode that just offed Stannis and Jon Snow (though Snow isn't really dead).

Personally I thought the only way Kevan in Pycelle get killed is if Tommen went with them. Which would have been good with the death of Myrcella. But he must have a few more important things to do.

They only become important in the books some time after the walk of shame which has only just happened.

Varys can still cause them to die but remotely. He doesn't need to do it himself.

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Okay... just watched this one. What. The. Fuck? I mean I'm one to give episodes the benefit of the doubt, but this season is like putting a gun to the viewer's head to shock them. Sure it accomplishes the point, but it's not exactly enjoyable.



I did enjoy the opening with Stannis, where he just realized he gave away his basic humanity. If I was one of his men, I'd desert too. Even Selysse hanging herself is just... understandable. Melisandre bailing out could've been handled better too. Just running off felt rather forced.The battle itself was just... I dunno for the last year I've been waiting for the result of this WInter Battle and I feel it was just... anti-climatic in the extreme. Brienne literally walks away from Sansa to take revenge on Stannis. Though I do wonder if he's dead with that awkward cut away and the "do your duty" line. Sansa and Theon surviving that fall seems rather certain too even if they left it hanging. Unless they really did make a mutual suicide pact.. and who could blame them?



Jorah sudden is reminding me of book level stubbornness in this show, blaming Tyrion for his second exile when he saved his freaking life. Dany was going to kill him, but he conveniently forgot that. Still it was nice to see Varys return. I guess this means poor Kevan gets to live. Guess he was a minor player in the show anyways that killing him off wouldn't be that dramatic.



Drogon winning the "arguement" with Dany was amusing. Beyond that, seems like Dany's reunited with the Dothraki. Not effective as a cliffhanger goes, I'd honestly have just left it a mystery and give that screen time to Daario and Jorah riding off to find her. A bit of character development instead of just... hey I'm lost with my dragon that won't fly.



Now we get to the scene that just made me mad. A touchingly beautiful scene were Jaime and Myrcella embrace each other as father and daughter for the first time... nope, the Sand Snakes poisoned her because... reasons. Right? The one nice moment of the episode and even that one gets ruined.



Arya, Arya, Arya... we pretty much knew this scene was coming and it was rather brutal. Reminsicent of the book Tickler death I though. The Jaqen suicide fake out kept my interest though beyond the rather predictable blinding.



And Cersei... well, I can't blame Lena Headley for wanting to keep some of her hair at all. She took that rather brutal scene like a trooper and you almost felt sorry for Cersei. But then you know the second she gets back to the Keep she's all "I'm gonna make those mf'ers pay." And there's Gregorstein to do it. Not sure I like the gold armor. It would've been more surreal if they just put him in regular Kingsguard attire. The grey skin was a bit weird too.



And the Wall, well we had to get Sam out of there and that was a rather hamfisted way to do it. Sam's "if I stay here I'll die" argument seems like it should've been followed up with "and so will you." Also am I the only one hoping Davos would've slapped Melisandre in that scene? First Shireen and then abandoning Stannis, I think Davos could be forgive a bit of non-chivalrous behavior. The Benjen fake out was interesting and it almost made you forget what was coming for a moment. I dunno, I don't like that Alisser led the "for the Watch" bit. Sure the man's a dick, but not quite to that degree. Having every member of the watch take part in the stabbing was just... ugh.



They should've just titled this episode "All men must die." :closedeyes:


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Say what you want about D&D, the quality of the episode or the whole season, but they just gave GRRM the opportunity to tell the fate of the main characters before the show does. They could've spoil everything and they choose not to at the risk of a very, very bleak ending. Really counting on a WoW release next year now.


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That is why Mel can't resurrect Stannis, she can't put heads back on.

They only become important in the books some time after the walk of shame which has only just happened.

Varys can still cause them to die but remotely. He doesn't need to do it himself.

True that. Really wasn't much of a reason to use them yet.

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Also, booksnobs this season:



1) There won't be any "Egg, I dreamed I was old." WRONG.



2) D&D are gonna show Sophie Turner naked because they are pedophiles (borderline libel). WRONG.



3) They won't say "For the Watch". WRONG.



And still we have ridiculous frothing at the mouth fanatics here claiming D&D's entire raison d'etre is to troll the fandom. WRONG.


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