[Book Spoilers] EP510 Discussion

[Daniel Cianureto Frentzen]

The theory is simple: Stannis + Jon = Dead, then: Wall is f**** done... nobody will protect.

if one of them lives: Someone will protect the wall. Melisandre arrival at castle black maybe is a clue that something will happen there, because she is always where strange things happens.

[draft0]

This season was so rushed.

Really sort of just the cliff notes or the crayon drawing version of the real story.

I mean, I still enjoy it... but damn, can you imagine if For the Watch had actually been done right? One of the greatest scenes in television history without question.

As is: meh.

[Daniel Cianureto Frentzen]

The theory is simple: Stannis + Jon = Dead, then: Wall is f**** done... nobody will protect.

if one of them lives: Someone will protect the wall. Melisandre arrival at castle black maybe is a clue that something will happen there, because she is always where strange things happens.

:P

[Associate Maester]

I know some think Stannis is still alive, but the viewers guide lists him as dead and they haven't lied about this before. I will miss Stephen Dillane's amazing portrayal and I'm not happy about the outcome but Stannis will come to tragedy in book too. Although, I don't think we can assume what happened in show has bearing on his current state in the books. He's going to die for sure, don't think he's dead yet in the books.

[of man and wolf]

Thank God this is the last time I have to do this anymore for a whole year.

Lets get the GRAND FINALE on the road:

-So we start off with Stannis' magic camp, where TWENTY GOOD MEN are able to sneak in and kill all stores and horses effortlessly then leave effortlessly, now half the men are magically able to desert with the remaining horses and NOBODY NOTICES A DAMN THING, AGAIN. WTF IS WITH THIS CAMP. ARE D&D THIS DUMB.

-Selyse hangs herself out of grief to the burning. TOP KEKS, she's the one who fucking wants to do it. D&D have this bizarre idea that every woman character must be shown to be morally superior to her male plot-counterpart

(what was the point of it all?), though I guess show-knights can easily say "OMG U DONT KNO YET" to excuse this.-HOW DID THAT GUARD KNOW MELISANDRE HAD RODE OFF. HE WAS WITH STANNIS THE WHOLE TIME. Melisandre betraying Stannis at this stage makes 0 plot sense either

-This battle scene. Kek. D&D at their finest. First a gigantic army of thousands of horsemen is able to magically appear right on top of them on a flat plain without any of them noticing until they're already there. Not to mention where these guys came from, or how they're able to fit that much cavalry in Winterfell or have them leave without being spotted or heart. It's all just so stupid and banal to begin with. THEN in their infinite wisdom D&D decide to cut the "battle" they've been building up the entire season to, I'm sure the excuse was "budget" but this is BS (look at how many battles this size shows with less funding like Spartacus had, plus more on this later). And SHOCKER: Ramsay easily wins again. He's so tedious and boring and effortlessly wins anything he tries at, a caricature of what D&D think they got from skimming Ramsay in ADWD.

-Stannis dying to Brienne after he gets owned. It's completely 100% plot justifiable, logically consistent, and brilliant writing. This was totally a climatic and reasonable conclusion to Stannis' arc. Yup. Nothing wrong with this at all.

I mean sarcasm aside, what is there to say? It's just so banal, so terrible. Stannis gets done in by revenge strnk wmyz. I mean it not be awful as an ultimate conclusion to the two characters stories, but at this stage of the story it certainly was and just totally wasted the entire Stannis plot since season 2. And you can say "Brienne didn't really kill him you never saw him die" as a weak defense, I guess, but all the signs point there (remember when people said this about Adriana in the Sopranos because she died "off screen" and she was really dead?). I'll never understand D&D's problem with Stannis.

-This annoying Ramsay girl again. Every line out of her mouth is cringe. Why can't D&D create interesting or enjoyable original content characters? What are they all such cringe-worthy garbage?

-Reek turning for no reason. It was nuanced and involved heavy soul-searching and development in the books, and even then he had to be strong-armed into it and only made the jump out of sheer panic as opposed to bravery. This just wreaks of mediocre writing to do it this way.

-Making Meryn Trant into some kind of monster. OMG HE BEAT SANSA SO HE MUST LOVE BEATING CHILDREN. Really? Are D&D this banal? Do they have to make everyone Arya wants to kill cartoonishly evil so we "sympathize" with her. They do this shit with show-Cersei, Tyrion, and Dany too. It's fucking tedious. Not to mention they claim Trant was her first person on the list, when IRL it was Sandor for killing Micah. D&D can't even remember their own goddamn plot.

-Holy God, that Cringe snakes dialogue. Even going off, they were fucking terrible. That awful tough love line, that ear bite. It was just so embarrassingly bad. These people are caricatures of what D&D think strnk koo hawt women are.

-D&D and truly pleb writing. Jaime's grand moral lesson in all this is "you can't choose who you love" because of some cheesy as shit teen romance. Really? REALLY? The understanding of leadership, war and defeat, managing the realm, and what he really wants out of life is replaced by some done-to-death cringe-worthy love lesson? Bravo D&D. This Dorne arc has sure bee fulfilling and worth it in place of the Riverlands.

-So they recast Mycrella (even though the past actress wanted to reprise the role) and wasted time with all this just to kill her off? What was the point of it all? This was LITERALLY filler, which is bizarre given how much of the book D&D keep cutting for this banal garbage.

-Ellaria's assassination plot behind Doran's back makes ZERO sense. The ship was RIGHT THERE. They could have turned around and shouted off the bow "Hey Doran Mycrella is dead and I know who did it!". WTF!??! WHY IS EVERYONE IN THIS SHOW SO STUPID. And of course you know Jaime will just go back to Dorne. Not to mention that this wastes the whole Doran master plan plot is gone, as he can no longer have a contender for the throne. waste for fucking nonsensical filler.

-OH LOOK IT'S MORE MISSANDEI AND GREY WORM. EVERYONE'S FAVORITE PLOT

-So they're just abandoning Meereen to Tyrion basically? Why would people "trust" Grey Worm? He's a Unsullied slave, the whole POINT of this Meereen thing is Dany has to learn to work with the nobility, who if they had a hard time accepting Dany would definitely never recognize a dickless (yes, this matters in this era's politics) slave. And they call the Unsullied capable of ruling the city? What? When have the Unsullied EVER been shown to be capable of anything but hilariously dying in the show? "Oh Tyrion can do it because it's just like King's Landing because it's a big city". Uh, no, Meereen isn't ANYTHING like Westeros or KL, as is pointed out over and over in the book. All This just hurts my head with its stupidity. Reminder that they could have just kept Barristan to fill this void to rule Meereen instead of needlessly killing him off, but that would make too much sense and the actor was critical of D&D's BRAVO BRILLIANT writing so they couldn't have that.

-More ridiculous Varys-Tyrion bromance, he was a good friend. Reminder this trash is what we're getting instead of ruthless master plan ambiguous guy who enacts chaos in Westeros and Tyrion flat-out says he doesn't trust or like.

-Drogon's lair is lame and nonsensical. He just made a mound of shit in the middle of a big, easily accessible empty field. Wtf. Even the wildlife in this show are dumbed down.

-No Dany SQUATTING IN THE GRASS at sunset. The greatest line of the series, gone.

-And here we are with a giant useless drawn-out Dothraki scene. 100,00 Dothraki run around (when she should have been able to hear that many well in advance). Why does this piss me off the most though? Because D&D wasted money on this useless, needless stupid scene instead of actually showing the Battle of Ice. Why not just have Dany run into a few scouts and save that supposedly desperately slim budget?

-Cersei isn't being charged with regicide or killing the High Septon apparently, it never comes up. KEK. This is just more shit with show-Sparrows obsessing over sex because D&D are fedora tippers.

-WHY WOULD DAVOS JUST TRUST MEL'S WORD AND LET HER WALK AWAY. Book Davos literally contemplates killing her every 2 seconds and he isn't dumb enough to think he had no role in this. A non-stupid book Davos would immediately have her seized and locked up in a dungeon.

-Killing Jon for dumb reasons. "omg he loves wildlings see wur racist modern analogy durrrrr" instead of breaking his vows and getting the Watch into the realm's business. What dumbed down garbage. Not to mention the mutiny makes no sense in its execution (notice non-stupid book characters actually create a distraction first?!) and isn't wasted on Olly, that awful turd nobody cares about but D&D shoehorn into every scene. Really, they removed the whole tragedy of it, especially by not having Bowen Marsh crying.

-Misleading title. D&D probably made the title of the ep to try and mess with book fans who want LSH (and real writing). Their obnoxiousness knows no bounds, especially with trying to create false hype with Benjen (fortunately I never bought it).

Overall this "finale" wreaks of desperation where D&D try to be "edgy" by killing off all the cahracters they deem unimportant to create media hype and make it easier to worship the feet of Dany/Tyrion/Cersei again next season.

Well that's all for this season folks! Yearly reminder that the show has been garbage since season 2 and the books are better.

There was a guard that came up to the other guards already there and whispered in his ear, then that guard told Stannis about Mel.

[RoamingRonin]

What in seven hells did I just watch?

[Cas Stark]

How they'd butcher that? I don't understand, what was wrong with it? Actually it makes more sense than it does in the books. Why assassinate him in front of everyone. In front of Wildlings and King's men? Doing it in secret makes sense to me.

How does it possibly make sense to stab him after he just returned from a huge battle with the Others, which proves his entire point about the wildlings, who fought beside the night's watch and oh by the way, valyrian steel kills them too? It does not make any sense at all since Hardome shows he was right about everything. In the books, it's all still very abstract, nobody has seen an army of the undead, so wildlings are much more real to them.

[The One And Only]

Look at the writing on this show for the example he doesn't know how to write. And unless you can prove they changed his script, the wga doesn't say so, the BS. Plus any who can write wolverine does not know how to write

Every script is changed by a director. There i no proof a hater of the show will take.

The Troy script was very popular in Hollywood at the time. He wrote 25th Hour. And HBO has commended him on his great writing for GoT. Three examples of his greatness.

He did better on adapting books 4 and 5 then GRRM did at writing them.

[lancerman]

This season was so rushed.

Really sort of just the cliff notes or the crayon drawing version of the real story.

I mean, I still enjoy it... but damn, can you imagine if For the Watch had actually been done right? One of the greatest scenes in television history without question.

As is: meh.

Eh idk. I would have preferred the Pink Letter ending where you get blindsided with Stannis' defeat and then it really seems like Jon made a huge mistake and the Watch is justified in getting rid of this maniac who wants to fight a war.

At the same time, you would have heard none stop bitching if Stannis' defeat was off camera. And the Pink Letter loses a lot of impact if you already know the outcome of the battle. So I don't know that this was the worst way to do it. I personally would have liked it the other way, but GRRM can get away with having an entire crucial battle and its outcome off page.

[Neds Secret]

Who's hate watching next season?? Lol the nerve of you people, I don't waste time on people that I hate or dislike, let alone watch a show. That's the dumbest petty shit I've ever heard.

Not hate, but sufferance, the first two seasons of the show were awesome to me and inspired me to read the books, I was a huge fan until this season but unfortunately I have really really disliked this seasons "offerings". However I am too invested in the show now, it's like an accident I cannot turn away from. Watching episode 10 tonight was painful, I have never been angry at at a TV show for the whole episode ever, I was constantly arguing with it and finding fault, it is was worse then watching your team get flogged in a football game, even jorah was idiotic when blaming Tyrion for his predicament, all the characters are suddenly bipolar or schizophrenic, but I know I will keep watching and waiting for next season, I consider myself a captive audience

[KingBlackfyre]

Every script is changed by a director. There i no proof a hater of the show will take.

The Troy script was very popular in Hollywood at the time. He wrote 25th Hour. And HBO has commended him on his great writing for GoT. Three examples of his greatness.

He did better on adapting books 4 and 5 then GRRM did at writing them.

You're joking with that last comment if you truly believe that there's no talking to you. And of course HBo commeneded him his creation is making them shit tons of money it'd be like paramount commending micheal bay for great directing. And on troy again we saw the finished product there was nothing redeemable if he was involved at all he takes blame

btw the show started me on the books and I was loyal to the show until this season even complaininh about purists but this season went to far and not only that but it was shit pure unadulterated shit

Edited June 15, 2015 by KingBlackfyre

[El Guapo]

Where were Meryn Trant's Lannister bodyguards?

He doesn't have any bodyguards.

[Hos the Hostage]

Okay, so after some reflection, this is my conclusion:

Brienne asks Stannis if he has any last words, he says - "go on now, do your duty".

Possibility-> Brienne is reminded that her #1 oath is to save Sansa & Arya. She spares Stannis because he can play a role in defeating the Boltons.

The Red Bitch leaves Stannis's camp after predicting that the Bolton banners will be burning in flames.

Possibility-> She leaves after having a vision of Jon being spam-stabbed and rushes to the wall to resurrect him. The Bolton banners may indeed be in flames next season, her vision might not be deceiving her here.

Sansa & Theon jump off a Winterfell Wall.

Possibility-> Sansa might survive but might lose the use of her legs like Bran. Miranda threatening to disable her legs might have been foreshadowing. Theon might actually die. Without Sansa, the Boltons lose support of 1/2 of the North and if Stannis is indeed still alive then he's back in business.

Also, there's going to be a war between King's Landing and Dorne, that part is obvious.

Thank you. I needed this.

[JonSnowed]

Let's just say for a moment Jon is really dead. Firstly aside from Tyrion and to a lesser extent Davos/Sam there are no really good characters to side for and secondly the whole north story arc is gone. I mean the whole story falls apart unless it's as pathetic as Dany riding in to win the iron throne and defeat the white walkers and that would be horrid.

[JonSnowed]

Let's just say for a moment Jon is really dead. Firstly aside from Tyrion and to a lesser extent Davos/Sam there are no really good characters to side for and secondly the whole north story arc is gone. I mean the whole story falls apart unless it's as pathetic as Dany riding in to win the iron throne and defeat the white walkers and that would be horrid.

[conceptualinertia]

Wow. He really is dead in the show. We have to throw out every theory. Geez.

[cornkingsnow]

at least stannis is not dead, i think she hit the tree, and she'd be like i need to drag him to court for a confession to clear her name

[The Bastard Dayne]

I've seen a couple of people making comments about all the calvary that the Boltons seem to have magically acquired.

I'll just say this;

Stannis's army was supposedly 6000 men to the Bolton's 3000. And half of them were mounted. So, 3000 horsemen.

Now, those men were staving, had no food to make it back to the wall, and apparently half of them ( around 3000 men ) just deserted with their horses.

So....Where the F$%K do you think they went???

Remember, these men are starving, have just watched what most of them would now consider a total f^&king nutjob burn his daughter alive, have no supplies to make a trip anywhere, have no real loyalty to Stannis ( they are payed foreign mercs ), and the closest place to seek refuge is Winterfell.

Humm.....what could Roose possibly demand in return for saving these men???

Suddenly the Boltons have an army twice the size of Stannis's ( and all of them mounted ), and several of you wonder where the men came from???

Seriously??? I thought it was basic commen sense.

[Northbound3.0]

What in seven hells did I just watch?

Don't worry. JCRB, has been passing out sympathy hugs, all night. I'm sure she has one for you too.

[lancerman]

You're joking with that last comment if you truly believe that there's no talking to you. And of course HBo commeneded him his creation is making them shit tons of money it'd be like paramount commending micheal bay for great directing. And on troy again we saw the finished product there was nothing redeemable if he was involved at all he takes blame

btw the show started me on the books and I was loyal to the show until this season even complaininh about purists but this season went to far and not only that but it was shit pure unadulterated shit

Okay what was the mostly commonly complained about plots in the book. Dorne, Brienne, Sansa. Those were the three biggest changes this season, and still the 3 biggest complaints.