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[Book Spoilers] EP510 Discussion

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I sometimes wish that the show was made by a really bad production team. Think Xena or Vikings or Black Sails.

You think Vikings or Black Sails are bad shows?

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No clue why people need to argue with each other. You like the show? Great. You enjoy the books? That's great too.

Because the name of the thread is "EP510 Discussion". It's for discuss the show. :dunno:

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I gave it 5 seconds of thought and I came up with:

1) "All the horses are gone." Mel rides into WF on horse

2) "How dare you try to kill our Lannister guest, I am outraged! . . . But come say goodbye to them on the dock today, You, me, them, bring your murderous daughter and her friends too . . . don't be late, wear that nice lipstick you have."

3) Jorah, Tyrion and gang are alive after being surrounded in a pit by so hostile a host, a fire-breathing dragon in berserker mode had to be led away or else would have died.

4) "The fuck we need horses for anyway, we're camped like 20 mins walk from Winterfell, let's leg it, gang."

5) "Let's Jump." "Are you crazy? Did you even watch the battle, it isn't snowing and there's like an inch of snow on the ground.." "Fuck it, we good."

6) "Renly, the rightful heir . . . " Has least legitimate claim to throne.

holy holes

The first one might be plot hole. That's about it. And that's assuming you hold the context of a member of an army saying all the horses are gone to mean that so literally that a few aren't lying around but not enough to support the host in any meaningful way.

The rest.. no.

Obviously anyone that close to Renly is going to have an overinflated opinion of Renly. We saw all the Harpies run out at the end of the last episode. Ellaria tearful pledged loyalty and begged forgiveness from Doran and extended an olive branch to Jamie. And the jump was kind of a damned if you were damned if you don't.

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Those are all plot holes. Every single one. I particularly like how they showed us the snow melting a few miles from Winterfell, and that there is hardly any snow on the ground, and then Theon and Sansa just jump off the wall. I mean... come on. That has nothing to do with nitpicks about book to show adaptations. That's just stupid.

These are not plot holes. I assume Theon and Sansa used a sloped part of wall and aimed for a drift. Seriously, the plot point is that they've escaped. You are nit picking about perceived mistakes in how the scenes have been shot. I disagree but please learn what the term plot hole means before you try spraying it about it so liberally.

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Not according to some people. Everything makes perfect sense, the show is better than the books. :dunce:

Have you seen the endless complaints on these forum boards from book readers about how boring Dany being stuck in Mereen is; or that Sansa hasn't been heard from in ten years; or how boring the Brienne chapters are and what was the point of Quentyn's chapters after how he ended up?

The show is only a condescended version of the books. Yet it has the power to move people to move people, millions of people, disgust, horror, triumph and discussion of the many important themes GRRM raises in his magnum opus.

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OK, let's start with really basic plot holes. If the Martels' plan is to assassinate Myrcella 500 feet off of the docks of 'Sunspear' or wherever that was supposed to be, why in fuck's name would they send their heir Trystane to the Lannisters?

Anyone?

The point of killing her is to start a war - so why send the heir to your royal seat unprotected into King's Landing? It's going to be really damn clear who fucking killed her. I mean, you don't have to read the books to realize that makes no sense. That has NOTHING to do with nitpicks about adaptation. That just doesn't make any damn sense.

Not a plot hole. They wanted to start a war. Ellaria was willing to go against Doran to do it. Her actual best case scenario is for them to retaliate with Trystane because that would force Doran's hand.

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Isn't the point that Ellaria Sand wants to start a war, has no real respect for or fear of Doran and doesn't give a fuck what happens to Trystane.

Trystane is the heir to Sunspear and house Martel. It's one thing for her to think war is the best path for Dorne, but sacrificing the heir to the throne is insane. What's the point of that? If she want to provoke war, she would do what Darkstar did - kill her in Dorne. If you're going to do that, you'd kill Jaime too while you had him.

Really? You thought Ellaria is trying to kill Doran's heir and cause civil war in Dorne while she starts a war with the Lannisters? That doesn't make any damn sense either.

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And how the F Varys managed to get into a pyramid? Wouldn't the Unsullied be all red alert? Did he say "I'm friends with the imp" and the Unsullied said "ah, ok!". :dunno:

i wondered about that as well

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God you're insufferable. I was pointing to the popularity in response to a different post. The post was that the show is so terrible and even unsullied now think it's a farce and anyone who likes it is an HBO troll. I pointed out that this is just objectively insane. But thanks for moving the goalposts.

I have posted a defense SEVERAL times.

Quickly:

1) Tyrion's travelogue cut -- better than books

2) Tyrion meeting Dany -- better than books

3) Sansa not eating Lemoncakes all season -- better

4) Brienne not doing absolutely nothing on screen constantly -- better

5) Getting rid of Quentyn the Irrelevant Plot -- better

6) Ditto JonCon and Young Grifter

7) Resolution to Winterfell Battle

8) Hardhome being on screen

Worse:

1) Dorne -- sucked

2) Daznak's Pit -- not as good

3) Varys -- leaving out pycell and kevan killing sucked but probably next season

Anyway, some of you are living in an alternate reality where the show has no logistical constraints at all, when in reality writing a book and making a big budget cable show are two different things. Location filming, actors, timing, CGI, entertainment purposes (audience pleasing), these are all things that put actual constraints on the plot.

Had HBO made ADWD and AFFC into 4 seasons as some of the Pollyanna's around here wanted to happen, then the show would have gone the way of Rome and been cancelled before arriving at a conclusion.

No you're insufferable. Honestly I'm just laughing at you right now. You're trying so hard to convince everyone the show is the best thing since sliced bread and D&D are way better writers than GRRM. Even if I liked the show I would begin to hate it because I'm so tired of reading your cr*p.

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Have you seen the endless complaints on these forum boards from book readers about how boring Dany being stuck in Mereen is; or that Sansa hasn't been heard from in ten years; or how boring the Brienne chapters are and what was the point of Quentyn's chapters after how he ended up?

The show is only a condescended version of the books. Yet it has the power to move people to move people, millions of people, disgust, horror, triumph and discussion of the many important themes GRRM raises in his magnum opus.

It's not anything close to a condensed version of the books. That was true of season one only.

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On the plus side, the acting of Jonathan Pryce and Lena Headey was nuanced and very effective, with subtle changes in expression.



On the minus side...well, lots of things that others have summed up more effectively than I could.


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I agree. It looked weird, and the way it was filmed made it look like some hidden significance, but I really doubt it had any significance. I think she just didn't want them to see that she was wealthy. But it didn't matter cuz she had a crazy necklace on, and was a gorgeous white girl alone in the middle of fuckin nowhere.

They said in the into the episode segment, she's dropping bread crumbs, so her necklace is next.

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None of these are plot holes. Brienne is saying what her character believes to be true. She was sworn to Renly and loved him.

If not Websters definition of plot holes, they are major (with a capital M) consistency errors. There is absolutely no discernable explanation why 4 of the 7 Dornish people present at the ship send off were those implicated in the assassination attempt. There was one guard there. One. They are illogically allowed to be there for the sole purpose of contriving another character's death.

There is no explanation (and none given) how Tyrion and Jorah and company are alive. They were last seen beset against odds so hopeless a dragon had to run away. Yet the next scene they feature in, all are alive and unwounded. That seems rather swiss-cheesy to me.

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Trystane is the heir to Sunspear and house Martel. It's one thing for her to think war is the best path for Dorne, but sacrificing the heir to the throne is insane. What's the point of that? If she want to provoke war, she would do what Darkstar did - kill her in Dorne. If you're going to do that, you'd kill Jaime too while you had him.

Really? You thought Ellaria is trying to kill Doran's heir and cause civil war in Dorne while she starts a war with the Lannisters? That doesn't make any damn sense either.

They can have another heir. Dorne is filled with bastards related to the Martell's and they actually allow for female's to rule. Anyone of them could be legitimized. This is actually better than their plot because the Lannister's are liable to kill Trystane. Either Jamie or Cersie in a fit of rage or Tommen to avenge his sister. That forces Doran to retaliate.

Why should Ellaria give one shit about Trystane when one of her kids could likely be legitimized and be the next heir. And she gets her revenge for Oberyn. It's all a win for her.

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Two things though: I guess Balon has won the war of the 5 kings.



And secondly, Roose would surely be the type of guy having his men scour the battlefield looking for the body of Stannis. Ramsay would too, just so he can bring him back to parade his body about while flaying his hide.


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Jeez, I feel like we first need to explain what a plot hole is. Is something that has no explanation neither in the show or out of it.



Ellaria wants war. Fine.


Kills Myrcella would cause war? Fine.


Yet, this murdering plan was set to happen while the FUCKING HEIR OF DORNE was travelling with the girl to King's Landing. That's idiotic.



How can Dorne go to war if KL has a hostage? Wan't that the point of sending Myrcella to Dorne? That Dorne wouldn't fight? Now Dorne cannot fight KL because KL has Doran's only son.



The ship didn't turn back. They are taking Trystane to KL and probably as a prisoner. So, unless Jaime goes fully idiot and says "no, I don't believe you have to do with this because you loved her", he will keep Trystane as a hostage as well. And you all thing KL will be ok. about Dorne killing their princess?



Ellaria didn't start a war, she simply fucked up Doran.


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These are not plot holes. I assume Theon and Sansa used a sloped part of wall and aimed for a drift. Seriously, the plot point is that they've escaped. You are nit picking about perceived mistakes in how the scenes have been shot. I disagree but please learn what the term plot hole means before you try spraying it about it so liberally.

If you've gone out of your way to establish that the snow is melting, do not show any snow-storming in the episode, have scenes of people walking over ground only partially covered in snow, and then show two people jumping off of an 80 feet wall without ever showing a snow drift below them it just looks like they committed suicide. That's just sloppy. All they would have had to do is establish big snow drifts, but they did the exact opposite, showing the thin snow cover.

Actually, I agree the Renly thing isn't a plot hole, but the rest of them are. And there are several others, as I mentioned and as others mentioned.

Edited by Lucifer means Lightbringer

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Cersei has really nice, natural breasts.

That is the nicest thing I can say at this point.

Not hers Lena's an A cupper.

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No you're insufferable. Honestly I'm just laughing at you right now. You're trying so hard to convince everyone the show is the best thing since sliced bread and D&D are way better writers than GRRM. Even if I liked the show I would begin to hate it because I'm so tired of reading your cr*p.

I don't think it's the best thing since sliced bread. Most of this season (episodes 1-7) was very disappointing. I'm fairly realistic in my appraisal of it. But frankly, this show-bashing has been going on SINCE SEASON 2. It's unhinged in its ridiculousness. Can't even have an honest conversation about where the show is going w/r to the books and vice versa, without it devolving into D&D are hacks, pedophiles, and butchers.

I do think the show is the best show on television right now, and one of my favorite show of all times, and yes I think it blows Vikings and Black Sails out of the water. I think this is because GRRM's story is so damn awesome, and I don't attribute that to D&D. If it weren't for the story underneath, the show wouldn't exist. Simple as that. That said, I think they've done a pretty decent job of adapting it,and I'm very pleased so far, AND SO ARE MANY MANY MANY PEOPLE all across the world. So eat it.

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