Jump to content
Ran

[Book Spoilers] EP510 Discussion

Recommended Posts

So, any guesses as to what happens to Dany?



Leaving a breadcrumb seems to imply she'll be taken hostage....to Vaes Dothrak? Doesn't she have to go east to go west? UGH. I really hope it's not a season of rescuing her from the Dothraki. I think it's going to get tedious if she isn't in Westeros next season.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, yeah, Varys just walks out on to the balcony in Mereen? At the top of the pyramid? He's not a faceless man, and Mereen isn't his city...

To be fair;

It wasn't the balcony at the top of the pyramid. Watch the scene again.

It was the public area where Dany had the freeman who killed her prisoner executed.

We've seen the balcony at the top of the pyramid three times ( IIRC ). Once when Danny looks out over the city after conquering it, once when she sees Drogon after that execution and the city turning on her, and once when Ser Barristan talks to her about Rhaegar's singing.

Edited by The Bastard Dayne

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sure someone has addressed this but I am not sifting through 25 more pages to check. Stannis lost half of his men and all of his horses. Calvary defeats infantry in any war ever. Ramsay did not defeat Stannis. Stannis defeated Stannis when he burned Shireen and lost his men's loyalty. Stannis was a great commander, not a god.

A plothole would be if Roose and Ramsay did not try and locate Stannis' dead body.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jeez, I feel like we first need to explain what a plot hole is. Is something that has no explanation neither in the show or out of it.

Ellaria wants war. Fine.

Kills Myrcella would cause war? Fine.

Yet, this murdering plan was set to happen while the FUCKING HEIR OF DORNE was travelling with the girl to King's Landing. That's idiotic.

How can Dorne go to war if KL has a hostage? Wan't that the point of sending Myrcella to Dorne? That Dorne wouldn't fight? Now Dorne cannot fight KL because KL has Doran's only son.

The ship didn't turn back. They are taking Trystane to KL and probably as a prisoner. So, unless Jaime goes fully idiot and says "no, I don't believe you have to do with this because you loved her", he will keep Trystane as a hostage as well. And you all thing KL will be ok. about Dorne killing their princess?

Ellaria didn't start a war, she simply fucked up Doran.

Actually, what she did was pretty smart. They will either take him hostage or kill him. Either way will incite a war. Ellaria and her snakes will have vindication that the Lannisters need to be wiped out. She is guessing that they would kill him. She sees the Lannisters as cut throat and would kill him easy without flinching. This would finally make Doran go to war.

Oh and Split Pea has some valid points. Whoever is being a complete knob, seriously go get a drink and come back when you have passed out and have better things to say.

Edited by Lady Godiva

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quickly:

1) Tyrion's travelogue cut -- better than books

Can you at least why is, according to you, "better than books"? What makes the whole scene better than the books? I mean, what happens that is "better"? That Tyrion just GOT there quicker?

Quickly:

2) Tyrion meeting Dany -- better than books

How you know this is better than the books when in the books, this scene hasn't yet happened and we can't compare them?

Quickly:

3) Sansa not eating Lemoncakes all season -- better

Is Sansa eating Lemoncakes during Feast? I must have had my book chapters replaced because I remember Sansa being very active in those chapters, both learning how to be Alayne, how to rule a castle and how to play politics. Also, she wasn't been raped at all and acting like a lunatic Stoneheart wannabe.

Quickly:

4) Brienne not doing absolutely nothing on screen constantly -- better

What has Brienne done this season? All she did was stare at the horizon and keep losing Starks. Brienne in the books:

-Met and introduced us to Mad Mouse and the Sparrows

-Met Tarly and Hyle Hunt.

-Met Nimble Dick and was involved in a fight with him.

-Met the orphans of LS's and Gendry, who he recognised.

-Met the Hound and provided us with the knowledge of him being alive

-Her chapters also gave us the best dialogue of the books(about the Broken Men)

-Fought some of the BM and got some comeuppance

-Was captured by the BwB and met Stoneheart.

In the show

-She casually ended up next to Stannis to kill him. Wow. WOW. How much of development I'm shocked!

Quickly:

5) Getting rid of Quentyn the Irrelevant Plot -- better

And also getting rid of any kind of plot for Dorne, hence, making them irrelevant.

Quickly:

6) Ditto JonCon and Young Grifter

Yes, because two guys who have just arrived to the game and have taken pretty much all the Stormlands with 100 guys is boring and not interesting at all. I mean, when Martin said he wouldn't include the scene of them taking Storm's End, people didn't say "why? no! please, write Jon taking Storm's End!" but "oh, yeah, because a guy taking the most secure place in Westeros by guile won't be interesting, like, we wouldn't like to see THAT on screen! It would AWFUL on screen!"

Quickly:

7) Resolution to Winterfell Battle

What resolution? Stannis walking to his own death like some fucked up lamb?

Quickly:

8) Hardhome being on screen

That's not the point of Hardhome. It's meant to be dubious. It's set up as a mysterious place (a pre-Doom happened there). Hardhome's ambiguity is what gives justification to Jon being stabbed, otherwise, they would know the rescue was needed and this would make Jon right. By making Hardhome appear on screen, Jon's stabbing was dumb. They killed the one guy that could have actually leaded them into kill the Others.

Quickly:

Worse:

1) Dorne -- sucked

Because it lacked Quentyn and Martell. And Doran's plans. Because they eliminated the one protagonist of the Dorne's arc: Arianne.

Quickly:

2) Daznak's Pit -- not as good

Because the whole thing was made to favour Tyrion, not Dany, who was the protagonist of the whole Meereen arc. Because they thought it was better show Tyrion awing at dragons instead of Dany finding her own inner dragon.

Quickly:

3) Varys -- leaving out pycell and kevan killing sucked but probably next season

Because he was transported to Tyrion's fanfest. And he will stay there. Why would he kill them, anyway?

Quickly:

Anyway, some of you are living in an alternate reality where the show has no logistical constraints at all, when in reality writing a book and making a big budget cable show are two different things. Location filming, actors, timing, CGI, entertainment purposes (audience pleasing), these are all things that put actual constraints on the plot.

And yet, HBO rather spent all of his budget in faces and whores instead of battles that matter and characters who also need to exist.

Quickly:

Had HBO made ADWD and AFFC into 4 seasons as some of the Pollyanna's around here wanted to happen, then the show would have gone the way of Rome and been cancelled before arriving at a conclusion.

Or what about include F/D last seasons instead of simply wasting so much time with Pod's amazing dick or the rapes we never needed?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, any guesses as to what happens to Dany?

Leaving a breadcrumb seems to imply she'll be taken hostage....to Vaes Dothrak? Doesn't she have to go east to go west? UGH. I really hope it's not a season of rescuing her from the Dothraki. I think it's going to get tedious if she isn't in Westeros next season.

I'm just glad we don't have a whole show on her squatting in the grass because something made her sick. She should have stayed more by her dragon or at least to a portion where he could see her and she could see him. She's not the brightest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be fair;

It wasn't the balcony at the top of the pyramid. Watch the scene again.

It was the public area where Dany had the freeman who killed her prisoner executed.

We've seen the balcony at the top of the pyramid three times ( IIRC ). Once when Danny looks out over the city after conquering it, once when she sees Drogon after that execution and the city turning on her, and once when Ser Barristan talks to her about Rhaegar's singing.

This is Varys we are talking about as well. He would have contacts in Mereen as he has in every other city.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, what she did was pretty smart. They will either take him hostage or kill him. Either way will incite a war. Ellaria and her snakes will have vindication that the Lannisters need to be wiped out. She is guessing that they would kill him. She sees the Lannisters as cut throat and would kill him easy without flinching. This would finally make Doran go to war.

If they kill Trystane, the Martells are over. Doran has no more heirs. There is no way they will go to war.

If they don't kill him, they will use him as a hostage. And if Doran attacks anyway, they will kill him.

Also, why would Ellaria wouldn't mind Trystane killed? She hates Dorne that much? She just eliminated the whole line of the Martells.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By the way your whole logic falls apart with the fact that when Lysa held Tyrion hostage Tywin had his banners attack the Riverlands in retaliation. He was the heir to House Lannister at the time with no expectation that Jamie would ever be released of his vows. They still went to "war" (though in a smaller scale).

LOL, Tywin was NEVER going to let Tyrion inherit Casterly Rock.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If they kill Trystane, the Martells are over. Doran has no more heirs. There is no way they will go to war.

If they don't kill him, they will use him as a hostage. And if Doran attacks anyway, they will kill him.

Also, why would Ellaria wouldn't mind Trystane killed? She hates Dorne that much? She just eliminated the whole line of the Martells.

Once again you can legitimize one of the hundreds of Martell bastards running around Dorne.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

D&D in their after the show commentary said she threw away the ring because the Dothraki are taking her hostage and she hopes someone finds it and looks for her.

Interesting. If I recall, she was asleep when they found her in the books.

And she's also able to have children, I believe it was hinted at...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Once again you can legitimize one of the hundreds of Martell bastards running around Dorne.

But do the Russians (Martells) love their children too? Is trystane that expendable to Doran?? Edited by Neds Secret

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, why exactly was Ramsey's letter to Jon cut from the show when it would have been explicit truth (bar him killing Stannis) and all the more shocking to Jon?


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can you at least why is, according to you, "better than books"? What makes the whole scene better than the books? I mean, what happens that is "better"? That Tyrion just GOT there quicker?

They have 3 seasons left. 3. No one wants to see an extended travelogue for Tyrion when the whole point is to GET HIM TO DANY. It's expensive, tedious, boring, and a waste of resources.

How you know this is better than the books when in the books, this scene hasn't yet happened and we can't compare them?

BECAUSE IT HAPPENED. It will probably be *better* in the books, but GRRM's taken 16 years and doesn't have to worry about paying for it. So he can afford that. Show can't. Better to get him there and get it over with NOW. Good call on their part.

Is Sansa eating Lemoncakes during Feast? I must have had my book chapters replaced because I remember Sansa being very active in those chapters, both learning how to be Alayne, how to rule a castle and how to play politics. Also, she wasn't been raped at all and acting like a lunatic Stoneheart wannabe.

This plot was far better than in the books. That woudl have been the most boring plot ever had they gone that direction. I don't get all moralistic about fiction. If someone gets married to a psychopath in feudal society, they end up having coerced and violent sex. It's not condoning that action. It's telling a story. And yes, a better story than the crap she does in the books, which would have SUCKED for viewers. Seriously, listen to yourself.

What has Brienne done this season? All she did was stare at the horizon and keep losing Starks. Brienne in the books:

I wish they had included LSH. Given that they didn't, I didn't care to see Brienne's travelogue from AFFC. It was really quite boring. I'm glad she didn't do much this season. They kept her low profile, which was good. IF you don't have a use for a character, then don't force us to read about them eating lemon cakes or traipsing about encountering irrelevant characters for hundreds of pages, Jorge.

In the show

Yes, because two guys who have just arrived to the game and have taken pretty much all the Stormlands with 100 guys is boring and not interesting at all. I mean, when Martin said he wouldn't include the scene of them taking Storm's End, people didn't say "why? no! please, write Jon taking Storm's End!" but "oh, yeah, because a guy taking the most secure place in Westeros by guile won't be interesting, like, we wouldn't like to see THAT on screen! It would AWFUL on screen!"

They have 3 seasons to finish the story. 2 now. Young Griff and JonCon were boring boring boring, and so I don' thave a problem cutting them.

What resolution? Stannis walking to his own death like some fucked up lamb?

this is the height of the booksnobs lunacy. Stannis' death in the book is in the form of a pink letter and entirely off screen. At least we got to see it here.

That's not the point of Hardhome. It's meant to be dubious. It's set up as a mysterious place (a pre-Doom happened there). Hardhome's ambiguity is what gives justification to Jon being stabbed, otherwise, they would know the rescue was needed and this would make Jon right. By making Hardhome appear on screen, Jon's stabbing was dumb. They killed the one guy that could have actually leaded them into kill the Others.

George has yet to write a battle like Hardhome. That was seriously a good choice. You can't say something sucks merely because it "wasn't the point of it in the books." I concede that point. George didn't want it to be an onscreen battle, so it wasn't, and it served a different purpose. I think it was definitely a wise choice for the showrunners, and considering it was wildly popular with fans, I am right, and you are wrong. Off screen horror dramas dont' work on television.

Because it lacked Quentyn and Martell. And Doran's plans. Because they eliminated the one protagonist of the Dorne's arc: Arianne.

Because the whole thing was made to favour Tyrion, not Dany, who was the protagonist of the whole Meereen arc. Because they thought it was better show Tyrion awing at dragons instead of Dany finding her own inner dragon.

Because he was transported to Tyrion's fanfest. And he will stay there. Why would he kill them, anyway?

And yet, HBO rather spent all of his budget in faces and whores instead of battles that matter and characters who also need to exist.

Or what about include F/D last seasons instead of simply wasting so much time with Pod's amazing dick or the rapes we never needed?

blah blah blah blah. most popular television show this decade, and a cultural phenomenon. wildly successful. please go get treatment. you need it.

Edited by Spilt Pea Soup

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Once again you can legitimize one of the hundreds of Martell bastards running around Dorne.

I think this needs to be done by the king. I don't think a Lannister king is going to do this for them now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Once again you can legitimize one of the hundreds of Martell bastards running around Dorne.

You know something is a plothole when you come up with ABSURD explanations for it.

All Arryns are dead? Legitimize a bastard.

All Starks are dead? Legitimise a bastard.

All Lannister are dead? Legitimise a bastard.

All Baratheons are dead? Legitimise a bastard.

All Martells are dead? Legitimise a bastard.

All Tullys are dead? Legitimise a bastard.

All Targaryens are dead? Legitimise a bastard.

All Greyjoys are dead? Legitimise a bastard.

Really, if people need to pull out explanations from their asses to claim something IS NOT a plothole, guess what. It is a plothole :dunno:

All I see is people giving valid explanation of the absurdity of this last episode of Game of Thrones and defenders shutting their eyes and ears and chanting "no, the show is better!!" while inventing things that might explain what the show itself is incapable of explain by its own. So far, no one can say how the show is better than the books. The show does not explain things that are left unexplained in the books, it causes its own problems and inconsistencies. And the worst thing is that they claim to be better than scenes that haven't yet happened in the book. They simply say they are better because they happened.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, yeah, Varys just walks out on to the balcony in Mereen? At the top of the pyramid? He's not a faceless man, and Mereen isn't his city...

Oh Hai Varys

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting. If I recall, she was asleep when they found her in the books.

And she's also able to have children, I believe it was hinted at...

Dany is eating the burnt carcass of a dead horse along with Drogon when the Dothraki show up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×