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[Book Spoilers] EP510 Discussion

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Why does Ellaria give a FUCK who inherits the kingdom of Dorne? Seriously? She's crazy revenge mode, and Dorne will always be Dorne. She is acting to get the Lannisters back, start a war, etc. The internal Dornish politics are far from her consideration. That has *always* been clear. Was clear in the books (substitute characters obviously) and it's clear now.


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thats what the corkscrew was for

When I saw that I was so excited because I'm pretty new on the forums but I'm pretty sure I was the first one who mentioned the possiblity of picking the lock with it in the forum for the episode when she picked it up.

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Going for the cheapshots now.

Perhaps you misunderstand my point, which was that Ser Meryn was already a pedophile, and he beat Sansa a bunch of times - we have plenty of reason to want Arya to kill him. Adding in the scenes with him hitting little girls was completely unnecessary, only done to up the shock value. That is par for the course, as i said, because they have made a habit of doing this.

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Jeez, I feel like we first need to explain what a plot hole is. Is something that has no explanation neither in the show or out of it.

Ellaria wants war. Fine.

Kills Myrcella would cause war? Fine.

Yet, this murdering plan was set to happen while the FUCKING HEIR OF DORNE was travelling with the girl to King's Landing. That's idiotic.

How can Dorne go to war if KL has a hostage? Wan't that the point of sending Myrcella to Dorne? That Dorne wouldn't fight? Now Dorne cannot fight KL because KL has Doran's only son.

The ship didn't turn back. They are taking Trystane to KL and probably as a prisoner. So, unless Jaime goes fully idiot and says "no, I don't believe you have to do with this because you loved her", he will keep Trystane as a hostage as well. And you all thing KL will be ok. about Dorne killing their princess?

Ellaria didn't start a war, she simply fucked up Doran.

Is this board the only thing in your life that makes you feel important? Your excessive attention to something you hate is really pathetic.

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Its like only the worst characters are allowed to survive in Game of Thrones,


Lol " All Good Men Must Die" justice is never freaking served


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Jeez, I feel like we first need to explain what a plot hole is. Is something that has no explanation neither in the show or out of it.

Ellaria wants war. Fine.

Kills Myrcella would cause war? Fine.

Yet, this murdering plan was set to happen while the FUCKING HEIR OF DORNE was travelling with the girl to King's Landing. That's idiotic.

How can Dorne go to war if KL has a hostage? Wan't that the point of sending Myrcella to Dorne? That Dorne wouldn't fight? Now Dorne cannot fight KL because KL has Doran's only son.

The ship didn't turn back. They are taking Trystane to KL and probably as a prisoner. So, unless Jaime goes fully idiot and says "no, I don't believe you have to do with this because you loved her", he will keep Trystane as a hostage as well. And you all thing KL will be ok. about Dorne killing their princess?

Ellaria didn't start a war, she simply fucked up Doran.

Doran will wonder why all of a sudden Trystane is now considered a prisoner when he was supposed to be on the Small Counsel. Lannisters will tell them Princess Myrcella was poisoned. Doran can easily still avoid a war by capturing Ellaria and the Sand Snakes and delivering them to Kings Landing in exchange for his only son.

War averted. Ellaria and the Sand Snakes are really not that smart. Even Jaime and Bronn will know that it was the kiss that poisoned her and Doran can easily claim he had no part in their plot. Jaime will know this, personally, based on their previous conversation how level-headed Doran is compared to the Sand Snakes.

Cersei will go apeshit no doubt. I think Ser Robert Strong/Cersei and Qyburn will be the ones to off Kevan Lannister and Pycelle even before Jaime gets back.

Edited by tmug

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Perhaps you misunderstand my point, which was that Ser Meryn was already a pedophile, and he beat Sansa a bunch of times - we have plenty of reason to want Arya to kill him. Adding in the scenes with him hitting little girls was completely unnecessary, only done to up the shock value. That is par for the course, as i said, because they have made a habit of doing this.

It makes Arya's reveal and revenge that much sweeter. That's why it was done.

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As predicted last week Stannis is toast.



Well, we actually didn't see him die, which means in GoT terms that Brienne may not have killed him and allowed him to take the black instead. As a result Melisandre is toast as well. Then Stannis gets killed by his right hand for his sins, actually asking for it. End of Stannis arc. It need real closure.



Beside that some more predictions:


- Clegane-Bowl is not going to happen. The High Sparrow himself will be the champion of the faith.


- The re-animated mountain will play out like in the classic movie "Golem"


- Euron is not Daario, though we'll see Euron next season


- Daario is the Harpy.


- Melisandre brings back Jon, who now fulfilled his oath to serve the nightwatch until death.


- RLJ will be revealed



Anyway, glad that we move beyond AFFC and ADWD now. We got some nice highlights and new stuff.



After E08 and E09 this episode was quite boring. Well, just wrapping up some arcs and put cliffhangers in it. Similar ot the boring reads of AFFC and ADWD.



Overall a good season, better then the last one to my liking, but looking foward to see the main plots of AWOW now.



Oh yes, one more prediction. It will be final season 6 that will air as a split season of 16 or 20 episodes in 2016/2017.

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Ellaria wants war. Fine.

Kills Myrcella would cause war? Fine.

Yet, this murdering plan was set to happen while the FUCKING HEIR OF DORNE was travelling with the girl to King's Landing. That's idiotic.

Why would Ellaria care about Trystane? In Dorne, succession is to the oldest heir, male or female. If the "HEIR OF DORNE" is dead, who is next in line?

Sandsnakes, maybe?

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If they kill Trystane, the Martells are over. Doran has no more heirs. There is no way they will go to war.

If they don't kill him, they will use him as a hostage. And if Doran attacks anyway, they will kill him.

Also, why would Ellaria wouldn't mind Trystane killed? She hates Dorne that much? She just eliminated the whole line of the Martells.

Thank you for you previous comments as well, I lacked the patience to pick through Split Pea Soup's terrible analysis. You saved me the time, thank you.

Yes, it makes no sense to start a succession war at the same time you are also provoking a war with the crown. That's just dumb.

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LOL, Tywin was NEVER going to let Tyrion inherit Casterly Rock.

You do realize at the time he had no choice? Right? Robert was King, there was no indication that Robert would release him of his vows. And it was likely that Tywin would die before Robert. Tywin also continued to fight a war with the Starks when Jamie was captured. So your theory is still flawed.

We have two examples of Tywin fighting people with one of his potential heirs captured. And Tywin was NOT going to be okay with having a bastard much less legitimizing one. Dorne is cool with bastards and cool with woman running the show. We also don't know if Doran has other heirs that exist.

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They have 3 seasons left. 3. No one wants to see an extended travelogue for Tyrion when the whole point is to GET HIM TO DANY. It's expensive, tedious, boring, and a waste of resources.

Wow. I congratulate you on the fact you know exactly what every other reader wants or wants not to see.

Still you haven't provide an answer. Why is better?

BECAUSE IT HAPPENED. It will probably be *better* in the books, but GRRM's taken 16 years and doesn't have to worry about paying for it. So he can afford that. Show can't. Better to get him there and get it over with NOW. Good call on their part.

That's a very silly argument. I'm sorry but it is. With that logic, then why don't they simply make Jon walk to KL and say "I'm Rhaegar's son!" and sit him on the Throne. I mean, it's going to happen at the end of the books, probably. Why waste time with everything that is happening around if the end is all that matters?

This plot was far better than in the books. That woudl have been the most boring plot ever had they gone that direction. I don't get all moralistic about fiction. If someone gets married to a psychopath in feudal society, they end up having coerced and violent sex. It's not condoning that action. It's telling a story. And yes, a better story than the crap she does in the books, which would have SUCKED for viewers. Seriously, listen to yourself.

You still don't explain why the things you claim to be better are better. How are better? Becuase they are different? because they appeal more to you?

Because Sansa is not yet doing nothing. She is GOING to start doing things. Alayne's recent chapter is proving that. So, how THIS PLOT is better than a plot that hasn't yet happening? I mean, can you read minds? Has GRRM given you his manuscript? Because you, so far, claim THIS plot is better than the one he's planning for Sansa.

I wish they had included LSH. Given that they didn't, I didn't care to see Brienne's travelogue from AFFC. It was really quite boring. I'm glad she didn't do much this season. They kept her low profile, which was good. IF you don't have a use for a character, then don't force us to read about them eating lemon cakes or traipsing about encountering irrelevant characters for hundreds of pages, Jorge.

This is getting boring. All your answers are "this is better becuase I liked them more than the books" yadayada blah blah.

They have 3 seasons to finish the story. 2 now. Young Griff and JonCon were boring boring boring, and so I don' thave a problem cutting them.

Boring for you. I haven't yet met one single person who says Jon Connington is boring. I mean, what has Jon done that bored you? Take his own castle with 100 men? Invading the Stormlands? Take Storm's End?

this is the height of the booksnobs lunacy. Stannis' death in the book is in the form of a pink letter and entirely off screen. At least we got to see it here.

Congrats to you on knowing Stannis already died there. Because, yeah, he's dying in the battle and then he's burning Shireen. LOL.

George has yet to write a battle like Hardhome. That was seriously a good choice. You can't say something sucks merely because it "wasn't the point of it in the books." I concede that point. George didn't want it to be an onscreen battle, so it wasn't, and it served a different purpose. I think it was definitely a wise choice for the showrunners, and considering it was wildly popular with fans, I am right, and you are wrong. Off screen horror dramas dont' work on television.

It served one purpose. To provoke action scenes that appeal the watcher. That's it.

ANd, so what if people watch it? Gangnam Style is one of the most seen videos in Youtube and people like it. I like it. Does that mean is somehow good high music quality there?

blah blah blah blah. most popular television show this decade, and a cultural phenomenon. wildly successful. please go get treatment. you need it.

Yes, I do need treatment. I do receive it. I don't find funny that you think my mental problems have something to do with me not liking the show. Show some fucking respect.

Also, Justin Beiber is also a phenomenon. It's he somehow the greatest artist ever born?

All of your answers ar childish: "it's better because I like it!", "it's better because it's already happening!". Considering you're analysing me, I think you like the show better because it saves you from making the effort to read and understand. I mean, I'm sure you simply skip page after page waiting for thing to happen, and by things, I mean ACTION SCENES!!!. Because having pages of character development is like "BOOORIIING!!!" for you. That's what mostly of us could easily get from all of your jabber and blind defence of a show that only shows pretty pictures with zero context and content.

Edited by JonCon's Red Beard

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It makes Arya's reveal and revenge that much sweeter. That's why it was done.

No, it doesn't. Meryn's death was already well deserved. Beating little girls on screen was tasteless and did nothing for the plot. Just like adding a pregnancy staging tot he Red Wedding, or the entire Sansa rape thing. Or the "rape as a background prop" thing at Craster's keep. Really, it's a pattern.

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Cool as Hardhome was, does anyone think that CGI would have been much better spent constructing an actual battle between Winterfell and Stannis so his death and the crushing of this army he's been building since S2 wasn't so anticlimatic?

No. I actually liked the very wide angle shot we got of the Bolton cavalry surrounding Stannis's army and destroying them. Was a perspective we've rarely seen in any historical battle.

Edited by blasted_saber

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So, why exactly was Ramsey's letter to Jon cut from the show when it would have been explicit truth (bar him killing Stannis) and all the more shocking to Jon?

Well in the books it's actually a shocking revelation that Stannis lost the battle. The reader didn't know what was going on there. So it was a last ditch all hope was lost moment.

In the show it would have been kind of lame to have this big battle that was built all season reduced to a voiceover in a letter. So the letter itself would have lost it's shock. Also they've been building the NW being pissed at Jon about the Wildlings all season. So it worked fine enough.

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Why would Ellaria care about Trystane? In Dorne, succession is to the oldest heir, male or female. If the "HEIR OF DORNE" is dead, who is next in line?

Sandsnakes, maybe?

Sand Snakes are not in line. They are bastards. The Martells are proud people. They still follow politics. Thats' why Oberyn hasn't yet married Ellaria. She's a bastard. She's respected but she's, nevertheless, a bastard.

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No, it doesn't. Meryn's death was already well deserved. Beating little girls on screen was tasteless and did nothing for the plot. Just like adding a pregnancy staging tot he Red Wedding, or the entire Sansa rape thing. Or the "rape as a background prop" thing at Craster's keep. Really, it's a pattern.

Do me a favor, count how many rapes are in the books and count how many rapes are in the show. Also do you find the Jeyne Poole equivalent to the Sansa rape more tastefully done than in the show?

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I'm going to sleep but it's very very very funny to read how all of the show criticisms here is received as "YOU HAVE MENTAL PROBLEMS GO CHECK YOURSELF!!".

Do we need more proof that the show can't be defended when all defence is "stop giving arguments and shut the fuck up"?. People who give criticism is actually giving good argumentation. What we get? "go away"s, "you're crazy"s or "you're wrong because I can explain what the show has not explained by pulling some kind of lame explanation from my ass"s.

Edited by JonCon's Red Beard

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Sand Snakes are not in line. They are bastards. The Martells are proud people. They still follow politics. Thats' why Oberyn hasn't yet married Ellaria. She's a bastard. She's respected but she's, nevertheless, a bastard.

Yes, all of this, and you know who doesn't have any say at all in the succession? Ellaria.

Do me a favor, count how many rapes are in the books and count how many rapes are in the show. Also do you find the Jeyne Poole equivalent to the Sansa rape more tastefully done than in the show?

Yeah, not even going there.

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