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[Book Spoilers] EP510 Discussion

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And finally, Jeyne's proved how little LF cares for people and how he's all cruelty behind his nice facade of a Mr. Nice Helpful Guy. It also proved how people in general cared little for people without an important last name.

The show didn't need that, because they outed LF as a duplicitous master villain much earlier on.

And his plot was already evil enough without needing the "brothel training" part. Unlike Jeyne, who he obviously never saw as anything but a pawn, LF seemed to genuinely care about Sansa, sometimes seeming to mistake her for her mother (the only person he ever cared about besides himself), sometimes seeing her as a protege to carry on his business. And yet, he still dumped her on Ramsay with nothing more than a slim hope that he'd taught her well enough to take care of herself (which she clearly didn't believe he had).

Which, of course, parallels the fact that his whole master plan is what got Cat, the love of his life, killed.

The show really doesn't need to dump any more obvious evil on LF. No viewer is going to mistake him for Mr. Nice Helpful Guy.

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And how about perhaps visiting book forums? Plenty of those around there...

And the fact that ADWD wasn't Martin's best work is somehow making this entire season more tolerable? Nope.

Put it this way, I was dreading this season because I didn't want to have to put up with Tyrion being depressed, Brienne wandering around aimlessly, not getting any resolutions to any of the conflicts, Sansa in the Vale not doing much, Dorne sucking, etc.

And they found a way to boil it all down to it's essential bits and kept it going at a MUCH faster pace. Some of the parts like Dorne still sucked. Brienne still didn't do much, but at least I didn't have to watch her not do much while I had to read a couple hours of it. They actually showed me the battle of Hardhome and gave me some resolution to Stannis vs the Boltons without reading about it in a letter. The bits that had to be boring weren't overbearing and dragged out.

So yeah compared to the book it was more tolerable. And I actually like those two books, but fuck did I not want to watch the worst of it. Didn't need it. Could something's been done a little better? Yeah of course. But damn are some of these complaints so unrealistic and just completely unwilling to accept ANY change.

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Put it this way, I was dreading this season because I didn't want to have to put up with Tyrion being depressed, Brienne wandering around aimlessly, not getting any resolutions to any of the conflicts, Sansa in the Vale not doing much, Dorne sucking, etc.

And what we got is Tyrion being stupider than ever to the point that he hadn't one good line entire season. Brienne's entire storyline now has some point? LOL... It was the soap opera moment with the candle. Sansa's WF story was such a success? Oh, wait... And Dorne... If Dorne sucked for you in the books, I don't see how it didn't sucked 10000x more in the TV series?

Every criticism you have mentioned is done 10 times worse in the TV show.

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LOL at the idea that everzone who watches it, loved it. And yes, everyone who liked this has some serious taste issues.

DWD was a wreck? LOL... Between gaping plot hole of Dorne, pointless Winterfell, troubling Meereen, this wasn't a wreck? Between sexism, shock scenes and lack of any decent characterization, this was what? A piece of art?

Again, the show has come to the point where liking it shows poor taste.

1. Explain the plot hole in Dorne. There isn't one, but I want to see you try.

2. How was Winterfell pointless?

3. Mereen was a fucking travesty in the book.

4. Don't need to get into the worse sexism and worse "shock scenes" that specific booksprovided.

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And what we got is Tyrion being stupider than ever to the point that he hadn't one good line entire season. Brienne's entire storyline now has some point? LOL... It was the soap opera moment with the candle. Sansa's WF story was such a success? Oh, wait... And Dorne... If Dorne sucked for you in the books, I don't see how it didn't sucked 10000x more in the TV series?

Every criticism you have mentioned is done 10 times worse in the TV show.

Which is why I'm sort of glad the show is fucking up so badly...more people appreciate Feast and Dance now. Really, the Ds are miracle workers.

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And what we got is Tyrion being stupider than ever to the point that he hadn't one good line entire season. Brienne's entire storyline now has some point? LOL... It was the soap opera moment with the candle. Sansa's WF story was such a success? Oh, wait... And Dorne... If Dorne sucked for you in the books, I don't see how it didn't sucked 10000x more in the TV series?

Every criticism you have mentioned is done 10 times worse in the TV show.

What exactly did Tyrion do that was stupid.

Yeah Brienne's storyline actually made sense. She was searching for Sansa. She was waiting for Sansa to signal for help. Stannis appeared at the Wall and she avenged Renly. All things that made sense because she swore oaths earlier in the books/shows to do just that. The difference was I didn't have to read nonstop about a Riverlands subplot that I fucking need to because it just said a bunch of things that were already conveyed.

Lets see, Dorne in the books had this whole massive plot that ultimately failed, only to reveal Doran's plan with Quentyn, which also failed when he got burned by a dragon. Not saying what we got was any better. But what else was going to get? Arianne's boobs? Got Tyene's. Ary's Oakhart? Yeah he was a real gem to the story. Myrcella getting scarred? Well I got her dead. It was a waste of time in the books, it was a waste of time here. Both could have been been completed with a single chapter of Doran talking about his plan.

Last but not least, at least Sansa was involved in something that mattered rather than stuffing her face with cakes in the Vale all season.. Somehow I don't think that would have been much better. So yeah.

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1. Explain the plot hole in Dorne. There isn't one, but I want to see you try.

2. How was Winterfell pointless?

3. Mereen was a fucking travesty in the book.

4. Don't need to get into the worse sexism and worse "shock scenes" that specific booksprovided.

1. LOL... Ellaria starting a war while THE HEIR OF DORNE is in enemy's hands. We don't hurt little girls in Dorne. The poison needing questionable amount of time to work on Bronn and Myrcella? As you see, you missed quite a lot.

2. How it isn't?

3. Meereen was bad in the books. And that Daznak pit scene was epic. Daznak pit scene in the show was hilariously pathetic.

4. Why not? Are we going to actually argue that the show isn't sexist? That the writing of homosexual isn't showing some problematic thing? That women are getting raped left and right in order to gain some strengths? Tell me why should we not discuss sexist writing when the writing of the material that they are supposedly adapting is so egalitarian and feminist.

Which is why I'm sort of glad the show is fucking up so badly...more people appreciate Feast and Dance now. Really, the Ds are miracle workers.

While I had the problems with Dance and Feast, this adaptation was even worse... That is truly an accomplishment.

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I am convinced Ramsay and his 20 good men can defeat the White Walkers. Shirtless, if necessary.



Will Davos push Melisandre in Jon Snow's funeral pyre or grab her and they burn both? Then Stannis rises. Or Theon's cock.



As Kit mentions Jim Morrison in that interview, how about some lyrics: "When the true king's murderes are allowed to roam free, a thousand magicans will rise in the land"



Balon Greyjoy can now claim the Iron Throne. Last man standing.


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I am convinced Ramsay and his 20 good men can defeat the White Walkers. Shirtless, if necessary.



Will Davos push Melisandre in Jon Snow's funeral pyre or grab her and they burn both? Then Stannis rises. Or Theon's cock.



As Kit mentions Jim Morrison in that interview, how about some lyrics: "When the true king's murderes are allowed to roam free, a thousand magicans will rise in the land"



Balon Greyjoy can now claim the Iron Throne. Last man standing.


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And how the F Varys managed to get into a pyramid? Wouldn't the Unsullied be all red alert? Did he say "I'm friends with the imp" and the Unsullied said "ah, ok!". :dunno:

"Look I don't have any balls, I'm one of you."

"Ah, ok!"

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I am convinced Ramsay and his 20 good men can defeat the White Walkers. Shirtless, if necessary.



Will Davos push Melisandre in Jon Snow's funeral pyre or grab her and they burn both? Then Stannis rises. Or Theon's cock.



As Kit mentions Jim Morrison in that interview, how about some lyrics: "When the true king's murderes are allowed to roam free, a thousand magicans will rise in the land"



Balon Greyjoy can now claim the Iron Throne. Last man standing.


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What exactly did Tyrion do that was stupid.

Yeah Brienne's storyline actually made sense. She was searching for Sansa. She was waiting for Sansa to signal for help. Stannis appeared at the Wall and she avenged Renly. All things that made sense because she swore oaths earlier in the books/shows to do just that. The difference was I didn't have to read nonstop about a Riverlands subplot that I fucking need to because it just said a bunch of things that were already conveyed.

Lets see, Dorne in the books had this whole massive plot that ultimately failed, only to reveal Doran's plan with Quentyn, which also failed when he got burned by a dragon. Not saying what we got was any better. But what else was going to get? Arianne's boobs? Got Tyene's. Ary's Oakhart? Yeah he was a real gem to the story. Myrcella getting scarred? Well I got her dead. It was a waste of time in the books, it was a waste of time here. Both could have been been completed with a single chapter of Doran talking about his plan.

Last but not least, at least Sansa was involved in something that mattered rather than stuffing her face with cakes in the Vale all season.. Somehow I don't think that would have been much better. So yeah.

Yeah, Sansa was involved in getting herself raped. That was really important.

Writing for Tyrion has been idiotic to say at least. Suddenly he and Dany are besties, without even the natural distrust. Then, we have that awful conversation about the wheel where two persons who obviously have different political philosophies - Tyrion is elitist through and through are becoming allies.

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I am convinced Ramsay and his 20 good men can defeat the White Walkers. Shirtless, if necessary.

Will Davos push Melisandre in Jon Snow's funeral pyre or grab her and they burn both? Then Stannis rises. Or Theon's cock.

As Kit mentions Jim Morrison in that interview, how about some lyrics: "When the true king's murderes are allowed to roam free, a thousand magicans will rise in the land"

Balon Greyjoy can now claim the Iron Throne. Last man standing.

LOL. Shirtless, I want that to happen now.

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I am convinced Ramsay and his 20 good men can defeat the White Walkers. Shirtless, if necessary.

20? That is exaggeration... 10 good men... 20 good men would conquer all zombies in all Universes.

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Well, Jon Snow "death" troubles me a bit, since the rest of characters besides Daenerys neverending quest to Westeros and Tyrion ( at times ) are not interesting for me at all .Bran will be stuck in a tree for all his life, I dont see Arya's journey ending well either, and the Lannisters are pretty much defeated. The Martells are a caricature, and so are the Tyrells. And I wont even start with Sansa's storyline.



We'll see if that interview is really true , if it is , they will have to come up with something really good to make people watch this show. ( they didnt even included Faegon or LS, no Manderly? )



I think I'll root for the white walkers now.


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It's not anything close to a condensed version of the books. That was true of season one only.

Season 2 was a streamlined version of the books, Season 1 is a very fine adaptation with only very minor changes in my eyes. Season 3 is also a pretty good adaptation. While this season has gone off the rails I think you need to be realistic and fair towards the earlier work.

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1. LOL... Ellaria starting a war while THE HEIR OF DORNE is in enemy's hands. We don't hurt little girls in Dorne. The poison needing questionable amount of time to work on Bronn and Myrcella? As you see, you missed quite a lot.

2. How it isn't?

3. Meereen was bad in the books. And that Daznak pit scene was epic. Daznak pit scene in the show was hilariously pathetic.

4. Why not? Are we going to actually argue that the show isn't sexist? That the writing of homosexual isn't showing some problematic thing? That women are getting raped left and right in order to gain some strengths? Tell me why should we not discuss sexist writing when the writing of the material that they are supposedly adapting is so egalitarian and feminist.

While I had the problems with Dance and Feast, this adaptation was even worse... That is truly an accomplishment.

1. That's not a plot hole. It will never be a plot hole. Learn what a plot hole is. Ellaria wants a war to avenge her lover. She doesn't give shit about Trystane. She has no reason to give shit about Trystane. Dorne can legitimize a bastard if it needs an heir that bad, they love bastards down there. It actually works out better for her plan for Trystane to be stuck taking the fall for Myrcella's death. There's more than one time of poison. And Ellaria is not beholden to something Oberyn said to Cersie (especially since they almost did try to kill Myrcella in Dorne in the books. So much for that.

So no not a plothole in the slightest. And it actually helps Ellaria's cause.

2. No you are going to have to explain that one. Virtually everything that happened in Winterfell happened in the books, the only difference was it was Sansa in the show. The marriage, the rape, the crap Ramsay pulled, Reek and the bride escaping (happened differently, but it did happen). All the same. Only a more important character was involved in it. So if it was pointless in the show, it was more pointless in the book because Jeyne Poole isn't as important as Sansa Stark. But she sure got the raped the fuck out of for.. reasons..

3. Plenty of people went crazy for the Pit scene in the show. Everyone was talking about how much they liked it in reviews, and twitter, and facebook, and whatever. You might not have liked it. Fine. That's like your opinion dude. Oh and toning Mereen down made it a hell of lot more bearable than whatever was going on there in ADWD. Especially because there was some small excitement with Tyrion there if even if it was for fan service.

4. And are you going to argue that the book doesn't have sexism. That rape isn't crammed in their significantly more and that women aren't treated far worse in the books? Yeah no. Jeyne got it worse than Sansa. Dozens of girls that only appeared in the books got it worse than Meryn hitting a three girls in a brothel. So once again no.

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Yeah, Sansa was involved in getting herself raped. That was really important.

Writing for Tyrion has been idiotic to say at least. Suddenly he and Dany are besties, without even the natural distrust. Then, we have that awful conversation about the wheel where two persons who obviously have different political philosophies - Tyrion is elitist through and through are becoming allies.

Sansa was involved in something important - though she had some inkling of what Ramsay was at the last minute, I don't think she fully understood the implications of being his wife. But the important part was that she was trying to reclaim the North, in the only way she was presented with. She thought she was doing something important, and it really seemed like she was! The fact that it all turned to sh*t and a desperate escape is irrelevant, I think.

The Boltons are very huge villains in the show - considering all they've done to the Starks - and Sansa engaging them in whatever way was super interesting! She really wasn't doing anything much in the Vale and I was a little bored with her there.

I usually don't like changes to the show from the books but once I accepted them, I realized they really weren't quite so terrible after all!

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