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[Book Spoilers] EP510 Discussion

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Also, booksnobs this season:

1) There won't be any "Egg, I dreamed I was old." WRONG.

2) D&D are gonna show Sophie Turner naked because they are pedophiles (borderline libel). WRONG.

3) They won't say "For the Watch". WRONG.

You pick three minor isolated predictions that turned out wrong and build up a castle out of thin air.

Why don't you address the important predictions that turned out right! Precisely around the suplots that you mention, a lot of people predicted:

1) Aemon's dead will be dealt with horribly. Without any bulid up, or any kind of transcendence.

2) It will make absolutely no sense for Sansa to willingfully surrender herself to the Boltons.

3) Alliser and Olly are going to be the ones who stab Jon, taking away the whole meaning of the scene and converting it into a pitty personal vengeance.

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It would be funny to see the face of Dragon Mother when she comes with an army in King's Landing to see a winter, empty throne and no one in town. She indeed will be able to sit on Iron Throne.

Nah, if everyone's dead, it has to be Jaime killing the last King or Queen then sitting on the throne to keep it warm for whoever comes to claim it, just like he did last time, only this time nobody shows up.

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I agree that they need Jon next season

What heroes do we have?

Dany - Drogon will look out for mommy and want some horse BBQ

Tyrion - no idea what will happen. Varys?

Bran as our only eye in the North??

Jaime - unpredictable by now

Sansa - will have to look after herself first of all

Rickon and Osha??

Jon is needed for viewers to to root for and to actually move the plot, they cannot only count on Mereen and on more or less shady antagonists like

KL - a mess with nice Tommen in between

Tyrells - good or bad guys??

Dorne with or against Trystane???

Boltons

Greyjoys - Yara vs Euron?

Baelish

And some oldtown magic addded to the soup

Only Dany and Tyrion appear as strong characters to root for and who really move the plot. There must be one more.

Edited by Woman of War

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It would be funny to see the face of Dragon Mother when she comes with an army in King's Landing to see a winter, empty throne and no one in town. She indeed will be able to sit on Iron Throne.

Oh, and if you really want to give Dany an ironic ending: She valiantly defeats the White Walkers, ends serfdom, makes everyone smile and share a Coke, and brings a plague that wipes out 80% of the already-diminished population of Westeros, leading to a complete civilization collapse across the continent the likes of which haven't been seen since Sarnor.

The Pale Mare was bad enough in Yunkai and Meereen; imagine what it could do against a population who don't have the resistance that comes from surviving multiple waves in recent decades (or even intensive commerce with people who have), who are weary from 7 years of war after war after war, who are on the edge of starvation, and who have suffered such a breakdown in civil authority that nobody can effectively maintain a quarantine…

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I love how everyone is pissed at D&D for letting Ramsay defeat Stannis but not giving Stannis an on screen death. Well I have news for you show hating GRRM apologist. THE AUTHOR OF THE BOOKS WROTE IT THAT WAY. WHEN I READ ADWD I COULD HAVE SWORN RAMSAY KILLED STANNIS IN 7 DAYS OF BATTLE.. OFF SCREEN!!!!BLAHAHAHAHAHAHA ... You guys are are too much!!

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If you read the books stannis doesn't burn anyone not already guilty of treason

He certainly seemed ready to burn his nephew though. Somehow everyone forgets that.

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How is Mel having a horse when they said that ALL the horses are gone not a plot hole? All the horses are gone. But English now means something else, all the horses are gone, and we see Stannis WALKING to Winterfell, which I guess he could have done all along without burning his daughter, bummer dude, LOL, and then Mel on a horse. It's of course already quite a stretch to think that half of the army and all the horses leave and still not a soul wakes up and every single guard posted was asleep or left himself.


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Thank you

The voice of reason

Jon dead, Stannis dead, Myrcella dead, Sansa and Theon dead - you don't believe all of them are !?

What about the kiss of life to jon from Benjen?

Though in the end of this season two out of three young girls are definitely dead, Shireen and Myrcella, and they are those two I cared most for, that's sad. I actually hd high hopes for both of them since in the books Myrcella is a strategic mind who masters cyvasse easily and Shireen as we all know was just wonderful. Her fate was obvious for two seasons but I have been in denial.

Show Sansa has grown to me, thanks to the actress, so in the end I will have to be content with her surviving. But I am sad, really.

I don't think Myrcella is really dead. Bronn formed quite the little relationship with Tyene. I was wondering why we got to see that whole scene in the jail play out with the poison and the antidote; how I believe it was shown so that we would understand that

1) the poison is not totally instant drop-dead, Tyene had time to talk with Bronn before finally tossing him the antidote, and Jaime will yell for help on that small boat; and

2) that additional Bronn/Tyene flirtation when they were on the way out of the jail was a reminder of their "friendship"; and

3) Bronn has experienced the symptoms himself and knows how to recognize this poison so he will know the instant he sees Myrcella. I would bet you dollars to doughnuts that Bronn is carrying one or more vials of the antidote to that poison on his person and Myrcella will be saved.

As for why, *if* Tyene gave him the antidote on purpose, she may have known about Ellaria's "plan", and decided she wanted to protect Ellaria from being killed by Doran.

Makes an excellent season end cliffhanger though.

Edited by Xie

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I love how everyone is pissed at D&D for letting Ramsay defeat Stannis but not giving Stannis an on screen death. Well I have news for you show hating GRRM apologist. THE AUTHOR OF THE BOOKS WROTE IT THAT WAY. WHEN I READ ADWD I COULD HAVE SWORN RAMSAY KILLED STANNIS IN 7 DAYS OF BATTLE.. OFF SCREEN!!!!BLAHAHAHAHAHAHA ... You guys are are too much!!

I take it you haven't read Theon's preview chapter in The Winds of Winter. Stannis is alive and well in that chapter.

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The great thing about death for Jon Snow is that it allows him to leave the Night's Watch.

If you read the books stannis doesn't burn anyone not already guilty of treason

Stanntaic nonsense. He is even worse in the books.

Davos frees Edric Storm because he knows he will be murdered by Stannis and Mel otherwise. Stop deluding yourself.

WTF? You watched it? And you missed the people tied to stakes and the guy screaming "Sire, I served you well!" as one of Stannis' men is lighting the pye underneath him?

The Stannatics will probably be disputing this after Stannis burns Shireen in the books. There is some sort of package being delivered from Mel to Stannis round about the time that Stannis is about to burn some cannibals. There are four pyres and three cannibals. Lets see, what you think book Stannis is going to be doing with pole number 4? Oh yes! Hes going to burn.... Patchface. Yes, yes, cos that would make so much dramatic sense and Stannis would never burn Shireen.

I mentioned it as a possible end for them in the book, she marries him securing the Iron Islands to House Stark.

Sansa is already married to Tyrion the Hand of the Queen and he has an intact set of equipment and isn't responsible for murdering the maester etc.

Speaking of ROME.....why did it get cancelled? I watched the series last year ( in preparation for a trip to Italy) and was disappointed the series didn't continue.

BBC pulled out due to the expense. That is why HBO greenlit GOT.

Cool as Hardhome was, does anyone think that CGI would have been much better spent constructing an actual battle between Winterfell and Stannis so his death and the crushing of this army he's been building since S2 wasn't so anticlimatic?

No, the battle was meant to be anticlimatic. It isn't a battle, it is a slaughter. Stannis never has a chance. His murder of Shireen is for nothing.

The show didn't need that, because they outed LF as a duplicitous master villain much earlier on.

And his plot was already evil enough without needing the "brothel training" part. Unlike Jeyne, who he obviously never saw as anything but a pawn, LF seemed to genuinely care about Sansa, sometimes seeming to mistake her for her mother (the only person he ever cared about besides himself), sometimes seeing her as a protege to carry on his business. And yet, he still dumped her on Ramsay with nothing more than a slim hope that he'd taught her well enough to take care of herself (which she clearly didn't believe he had).

Which, of course, parallels the fact that his whole master plan is what got Cat, the love of his life, killed.

The show really doesn't need to dump any more obvious evil on LF. No viewer is going to mistake him for Mr. Nice Helpful Guy.

Oh really? You mean all the folk that think Stannis is a really nice stand up guy don't exist?

People are still whining that LF wouldn't possibly send Sansa to Winterfell because he is Mr NHG.

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I predict Stannis will also lose and die in the books. If he wins and takes the north the balance of power will be so fundamentally different in the books than in the show that they can never have a similar ending.


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So, give the show some credit- it had no idea what to do without George so they just decided to torch the whole thing.

Good things: Cersei's march was great- Hdeley was terrific, they capped it off nicely and they made me not want to vomit, which was more than the rest of the show could say.

Dany- still alive. Well done. I mean, what she is doing is useless now and just taking wayyyyyyyyyy too long, but that's a little like the books.

What else... okay, they moved on with Sansa. Hey- they just drove out a useless story-line and excavated the ONE useful thing. Her.

Okay... running low now- well.. Jon died. K.... Uh... you know its shit without all the set-up with Ghost and warging that you never did, not once, this season, right?

They brought Varys back in. Made no sense why, but ... why not?

Oh- Arya. She was kinda cool, but to what end? Look, they should have done with her what they did with Bran- just say she was training and you would have had the EXACT same thing. Arya, though and unlike BRan, is popular so they had to keep her here ... doing nothing.

What I didn't like

So, I hate to beat a dead stag, but the show never, ever, ever, ever, ever ,ever EVER knew what to do with Stannis; and these final two episodes epitomized that, No fucking idea. So, last episode he murders his daughter ... for no reason. And it does nothing to help his cause because it was a dumb thing to do and the show runners were only interested in ridding the story of Stannis, not actually having a story. So, HALF his men desert, Stannis marches anyway, nobody cares; he gets to WF and he is met by a massive onslaught that he and everyone with half a brain would have seen coming. BUt it seems to surprise Stannis anyway. Because its all so fucking stupid.

But then... Brienne. AWESOME!! ! She is there to be the ultimate, shitty-story-telling cliche! She is here to get HER vengeance (selfish, stupid, empty, vacuous, meaningless vengeance). She seems so cool, right? Why? Because the show likes Brienne; they don't like Stannis. So Stannis- a major fundamental part of the story for 4 seasons is removed for a third-level character's vengeance. Dumb. LAcked origionality, depth, nuance, intelligence and wit. Nice job, D&D; you continue to show that you have no idea what to do.

Now, what about all that prophesy talk etc? Nah! That doesn't count. Why did Mel leave? Reasons. No clue what they were.

And why were we watching for the last 3 seasons? What was the point of Stannis' story-line? What was the deal? Why do any of that if you are just going to kill the guy? Why was any of this important? Interesting? Worth it?

Turns out... it wasn't. UNlike Robb who's death was the end of a war and solidified the Lannisters; Stannis' death is just D&D admitting "Look, we have no idea what we are doing here, and the Stannis story-line was too cumbersome for us and we are NOT that good at telling the story so, we HAD to spend a season killing the guy. OUr back up plan was for him to die from gout. HOPE YOU ENJOYED THE 10 EPISODES OF SHIT!!!

Now... Jaime in Dorne. Wow. There better be a war. A long destructive war. Because that was bullshit. But, again, 10 episodes to do what you should have done AT THE VERY START! Don't waste our time with this bad bad bad story-telling. Just get to killing her because we watched 10 episodes for 1 murder.

And Sam should have left in episode 2. Seriously.

Regardless, the worst season of GoT ends; I do think it was a good idea to kill off a few characters (I would have chosen differently, but WTF do I know- I thought the books were good!!!! GOD SUCH A STUPID PURIST I AM!!!! Liking stuff that's "good" and not "fucking stupid."). The story is finally coming to and end and they did a good job of giving us a rump of a show to get this show done with.

What's left? Some really lame, empty, silly and dumb things Tyrion is still alive and so is Dany and Jon (yes... he's alive... Jesus... ) And we still have Dorne to deal with and JAime is still around (hopefully he will do something). BUt when its all said and done, we watched a HUGE decline from Season 3 to season 5 (season 4 was pretty good); one of the best shows on TV turned, effortlessly, into one of the worst.

What a shame... shame... shame... shame...

This was a great post. Really summed up how I feel. I mean, I do like the show, but man... It could be GREAT, and they settle for OK... Why not have at least Jon call out for Ghost... Something, please! Stick to writing novels David Benioff bc you're screwing this show up

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Kit did not name the movies he would be working on (all actors would have that lined up explicitly and would be shilling that hard.) and he hates his hair... Yet it remains uncut. He got no leaving gift.

No way he is not coming back. Would be cool if he misses season 6 though. (He won't.)

Yeah. There is an Entertainment Weekly article up claiming he has cut his hair, but there's no photographic evidence. Not that a haircut is proof of anything at all, wigs and hair extensions are everywhere these days so if they wanted Jon's hair long again it could be so in an hour.

If Jon's alive, I don't think there's any way they can keep it secret for 9 months, and for 6 months of filming season 6, although it seems clear they are going to try. Not unless Jon Snow spends the entire season in the woods with no extras and a handful of NDA'ed crew members who won't tip it, but even then, once footage seeps into HBO's offices and beyond, there are too many people who will leak stuff (like the stills last week of Jon and Selyse, for example)

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Im not a book purist so I liked the episode.



Arya is basically where she was in the books, she now has been blinded, and maybe this, like in the book will teach her to use her warging abilities?



Reek and Sansa have jumped the wall similar to the book except for fArya.



Got the "battle" of Winterfell. Man, Stannis just knew he had lost before it started. Every person had worse and worse news for him. He wakes up and remembers he killed the one true good thing in his life. Half his army abandons him for it. His wife hangs herself. His witch rides off and leaves him. Stannis being Stannis he marches on, hey guys get ready for the siege....uhh boss, there won't be a siege, we are fucked... I just wish Brienne hadn't been there to kill him, felt cheap to me.



I didn't quite get Myrcella being poisoned. If Jaime decides to have the boat turn around the sand snakes and whats her name all die, so what good is that? We are to assume Jaime just keeps on heading to KL after being called dad by his daughter who then dies in his arms? Dorne sucked right to the end.



Cersie walk of shame was done pretty well, it did seem a little to long for me and I enjoy seeing naked women, so that isn't the issue! Felt like it could have been shortened and still had the same impact. I did like Robert Strongs decayed looking face in the helmet though. Seeing Pycelle and Kevan there made me think a cross bow was coming but no...



OK, Dany with Drogon, just fine, no issue. Her being found by a khalasar(?) no problem, she is where we thought she would be. Jorah and Daario going off on a tracking mission? How do you track something that flies? "uhh it headed north so we will just go north"... That was silly.


Leaving Tyrion, Grey Worm and Misande there to rule makes perfect sense and I would bet Tyrion gets the place under control quickly. As for the other part...Varys just showing up by his side was fucking stupid. All we needed was a few more minutes of screen time, a knock on a door, hey you have a visitor, some bald eunich is here to see you, something, anything.



And Jon. Damn it damn it damn it. You even stabbed him worse than in the books, a lot of gut stabs. And you put the red witch up there with him so now I have to worry about the kiss of life.



42 more weeks to go.

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Yeah. There is an Entertainment Weekly article up claiming he has cut his hair, but there's no photographic evidence. Not that a haircut is proof of anything at all, wigs and hair extensions are everywhere these days so if they wanted Jon's hair long again it could be so in an hour.

If Jon's alive, I don't think there's any way they can keep it secret for 9 months, and for 6 months of filming season 6, although it seems clear they are going to try. Not unless Jon Snow spends the entire season in the woods with no extras and a handful of NDA'ed crew members who won't tip it, but even then, once footage seeps into HBO's offices and beyond, there are too many people who will leak stuff (like the stills last week of Jon and Selyse, for example)

This a show that had the first 4 episodes leak. It leaked that Shireen would be burned. It leaked that Selyse would hang herself.

The idea they could pull off Kit filming and nobody know is preposterous.

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What role for Arya and Sansa against White Walkers? What can they do? Quietly kill one or two deads?

The only key people among them to play a role are Jon, Tyrion and Dany. And Dany and Tyrion only if they ride dragons.

Key character would the one who will unite and lead entire army against Walkers, the one who will use magic, the one who kills Night's King

Bran will likely play a large part. The kid is basically a demigod.

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I'm not sure Bronn made it....that sand snake nibbled his ear lobe in a goodbye gesture.....the poison just has to touch skin. My only hope is that the Dorn boy has antidote with him like the sakes carry in the necklaces.


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