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[Book Spoilers] EP510 Discussion

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Which cliffhangers are those?

Stannis is dead. Theon and Sansa are not dead. Jon will be back one way or the other. This season was supposed to be Feast and Dance, so it's ending close to where those stories ended minus the various stupid changes and diversions

I consider Myrcella to be a Cliffhanger until we know for certain she's dead. I could see Trystane having the antidote, Doran could have been expecting something like that and sent him prepared. Or perhaps Bronn stole some, thought that seems less likely to me. To unsullied viewers, Arya is blind. We know that doesn't last.

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One thing I don't see anyone mentioning is the huge gift D & D gave to book readers. I think it's very possible they left so many cliffhanger storyline the way they did, or at least part of the reason was to give Martin a chance to finish book 6 before season 6 comes out so that book readers can read first how most of it ended.

Agreed 100%.

I know it's the cool thing to shit on D&D, and I do it too sometimes, but they gave the book readers AND George huge breaks. All the major cliff hangers are still in place. They could've easily gone further and probably made a better episode, maybe tied things up a bit more, but they didnt.

Like someone said earlier, this episode felt like they're giving George one last shot to finish TWOW and reveal most of the major events and fates himself.

This

I think the showmakers were really careful here.

No, I am not so happy about all those cliffhangers since I somewhat dislike cliffhanger overuse but it is obvious that the last episode precisely took up and collected all those damn open questions.

And now Martin is free to answer them first and in his own way. Which makes me believe that the next book wil come out before the next season.

That way we can enjoy both: eat the cookie and have it

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I really wonder why the people on here who hate the show this much, and have apparently hated it all this season, keep coming back to watch it and then spend even more time to complain about how much they hated it. If I didn't like a tv series that much, I sure as heck wouldn't waste my time watching it, much less writing about it.


I enjoy both the books and the tv series; this season was my least favorite of them all so far, but there were still parts I quite enjoyed.


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yep. according to his livejournal, GRRM is writing at a furious pace, so i hope he makes it. i think my continuing to watch the show, so as to not be spoiled in the books any further, will depend on whether or not Winds comes out before the season 6 premeire.

I'm pretty optimistic it'll be out before season 6. If the end was no where in sight, then D&D would've spoiled a lot more this season, and George wouldn't be turning down all these cons. It's season 7 that's the problem as far as spoilers go. There's no way for ADOS to beat that season.

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OK I get it you are a big Dany fan and I am not, you may be right and I may be wrong, I'm not looking to argue:-) I will only say that I've read the books, watched the show and read this forum for the last three years. Everything I've seen and read gives me the impression that Dany is an anti-hero has a spoilt brat over sense of her own worth and will likely suffer a big fall towards the end of the series. Every character who has died has been built up to achieve something then fallen towards the last hurdle I see absolutely no reason why Dany would be different especially if Jon truly dies - a character with far more foreshadowing.

Well I'm sorry but you're very much missing the point. Dany is only important to the story because of her role in Westeros - hence why she has to actually do important things there...

And Jon isn't going to stay dead (in the books, at least) anyway, so it's not a good comparison. Jon, Dany, Tyrion and the Stark children are the protagonists of this story, and that means they'll have some kind of role to play in the endgame.

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So what about Dany's House if the Undying prophecy with the blue eyed king that casts no shadow? Is that not Stannis?

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So what about Dany's House if the Undying prophecy with the blue eyed king that casts no shadow? Is that not Stannis?

In the books, yes. If Stannis dies in the books, it will happen after Dany's arrival.

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I must be alone in that I like this season and I liked AFFC/ADWD. Both have their flaws but that's fine.

I understand the necessity of making changes in the show, particularly because of the amount of material they have to fit into 10 episodes.

Why send Jamie to Dorne? His river lands material is great and, with luck, he'll go there next season. I think the primary thing that sending him to Dorne does is it ties Dorne more closely to the main story. In the books, Dorne is almost a completely separate entity and it's a bit tough to get into it at first. That would be very weird to pull off in the show.

Why send him with Bronn? Illn Payne is a mute for one thing. That might make the dialogue scenes a bit lumpy. Also the actor that plays him (Wilco Johnson) is currently battling pancreatic cancer. That might make his schedule a bit tight for filming.

Stuff like that.

As I've said before, There have been loads of accusations, mostly from book purists that its a poor adaptation because it differs too much from the books or "they aren't supposed to do that" or whatever. There have even been people accusing the show runners of creating fan fiction.

IMO, if that's what people really think about book-to-screen adaptations, get ready for a lifetime of disappointment. I for one, like many of the changes. At this point, who knows what's going to happen next?

You're not alone in that; I read the books and watched the series too, and enjoy them both. Obviously they're going to differ, because you could never fit all of GRRM's writing into a tv series, unless that tv series was 25 seasons long. I think D&D are doing a good job at adapting it into tv.

I will say that this season is my least favorite so far, even though I really enjoyed the last 3 episodes. I didn't care a whole lot about Dorne, but I didn't care about it much in the books either.

At this point, I like seeing the plot points remain largely the same in boht tv and book versions and yet differ in how they are reached.

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And how the F Varys managed to get into a pyramid? Wouldn't the Unsullied be all red alert? Did he say "I'm friends with the imp" and the Unsullied said "ah, ok!". :dunno:

Why does if matter? You're honestly complaining about stuff like this? And then if they actually did show how you would B and M all day that they wasted time on that and should have shown the greyjoys or some BS

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I think I'm done with the show, just because as another friend pointed out, I would just rather get my information now from the books. I'll buy the box set after its all over.



I did see in another article that Harrington is not coming back, so I guess that is that for the actor, but book Jon is not dead. GRRM said that Jon will find out the truth about his mother, ( he can't do that dead), and his own quote, "oh, you think he's dead do you?"



And it very well could be true that "Jon Snow" does die, but someone else is born, i.e., "Jaehaerys, Daeron, etc." because I believe he had a secret birth name that Ned covered up.



Anyway, glad its over.


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I agree 100%. Why drop hints of his parentage this whole season if he was just going to die in the end? Especially when the season was so jam packed that major story lines were cut short or even ignored. They added scenes talking about Jon's parentage because it is important to the story some how. I don't see how D&D would even bother mentioning Jon's parents if they are just killing him in the end.

Plus didn't JRRM say in an interview that Jon would eventually find out who his parents are?

Yes!! He cant be gone ...doesnt make sense

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Pretty much Stannis and Olly are the main characters in the show right now. I doubt they will kill Stannis, really... Its just too shallow he deserves a way more terrible way to die after realize and regret deeply his mistakes


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Stannis being killed by Brienne would be mercy at this point.

No Pink letter? Jon reading the letter with Ramsey doing the voice over would've been cool.

Bastard.

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Snow can't be dead, regardless of what Harington said. It just doesn't make sense at all.

Stannis death fits well with his character in the show. D & D surely hated him, so they made him a completely pointless character that doesn't know what he does. Stannis of the books is different to this Stannis. I hope that he wins the battle of Winterfell there, but even if he doesn't (pink letter being true) then surely it would be done far better than here.

Did Theon and Sansa made suicide? I guess no, but how on Earth they survived. Bron was paralyzed from falling from a similar height.

I guess Myrcella is dead for real. While the implementation was done badly (Doran isn't stupid after all), I guess that both 'Baratheon' kids will be killed in the next book. From all parts of the story, I thought that Dorne was done by far the worst.

Arya part was excellently done.

I just hope that Daenerys won't spend the next book/season trying to go back to Mereen/trying to make that Khalasaar follow her. She's been there, done that. Time for her to move with the story. With one of the Greyjoy brothers (probably Euron) pretty much confirmed for the next season, I guess that she'll have to meet them.

Cersei's walk of shame was done quite brilliantly (although with a double, obviously). Probably the best part of the episode.

'For the Watch' was done alright. Thankfully, they didn't manage to ruin an another epic line from the books ('Only Cat', 'Where do the whores go', 'Stannis, Stannis, Stannis). Olly being 'et tu Brute' was the most predictable thing ever.

In overall, a good episode in what was a very underwhelming season.

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The Dorne story might have been written poorly all season but the ending did offer three things. One is the fact the we know Myrcella HAS to die according to the prophecy. This was the kindest possible death. We're still not sure of what happened in the books and I am sure if she hasn't died from her wound she will end up dead eventually from that attack. Dark Star probably was smart enough to poison the tip.



The second has to be the fact that Ellaria Sand knows about the incest. Given the fact that the Tyrell-Dorne rivalry is only brought up once by Oberyn in Season four I figure she will send this information to someone in KL. I can't imagine who at this point but since we know Cersie will demand a Trial by combat to probably cover up her crimes and win, we are looking at the reason Tommen falls. She also didn't kill Jamie for that reason as well. He'll need to be used to confirm the incest either by force or by willing admission.



Third is Bronn and his future loyalities. Whether he joins the Lannisters, Dorne, or even Tyrion again will be an "interesting" story. They haven't named a new lord yet for the Stormlands and it's the only major lordship opened as of right now considering Stannis is a traitor. No forshadowing on the future of the Stormlands in the show and all we saw this season was Tarth which was more Jamie then involving Bronn.


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I have yet to meet a book fan in person who actually liked ADwD. Granted I've only met probably 15 book fans in person, but all across the board, people were "ughhhhhhh" and "meh" about it. The series? Almost entirely #HYPED and way more than 15 people. I overhear people talking about it all the time.

I realize we're not meeting in person and rather on the internet, but I enjoyed ADwD myself. I liked all the books, even Brienne's travelogue that seemed to get nowhere and Tyrion's travelogue that definitely got somewhere.

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