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[Book Spoilers] EP510 Discussion

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Did anyone else get a certain pirate vibe about Daario? There is something in him I'm not sure still. I bet he will kill Jorah next season.



Daario: Good fortune, my friends. Meereen is ancient and glorious. :smoking:


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I have a lot of thoughts, both good and bad on the finale and the season in general.



Good



1) AFFC & Dragons were both good books, but it's hard to argue that they would have made good TV adaptions. While it wasn't perfect the show compressed a lot of events into one season and kept most of the really core pieces of the storyline intact. I know most people on here don't see it, but that could not have been an easy job.


2) Kings Landing was great, while it didn't play out exactly the same as the books, Cersei's fall was wonderfully portrayed and may have been the best part of the season. The walk of shame should get an emmy for Lena.


3) Mereen sucked less than it did in the books. You can nitpick, and I know a lot of people didn't like Tyrion meeting Dany, and there were still some weak spots. But they fast forwarded to most of the good parts from my perspective.


4) The Wall & beyond were well done. Happy to see Wun Wun, and the battle at Hard Home, while improbable made for great action. Jon dying whether it sticks or not made for a shocking end to the season.


5) Skipping the riverlands... while Dorne had it's issues having Jamie there at least expanded a storyline that needed to be. I love Jamie's arc in the book, but that was mostly his internal growth, it would not have made for good tv.


6) Skipping the Kings Moot etc. I wasn't as big of a fan of the iron islands as many, but even if I had liked it, it would have made for tough TV. How do you explain Victorian & Euron's history in a way that doesn't seem really forced. Too many new characters who go their own way right way would also turn people off.


7) Sam losing his virginity. I didn't like the rape angle, but I was happy to see Sam happy for a minute.


8) Arya, I may be in the minority but I enjoy her storyline a lot and was happy to see it kept mainly intact, probably improved. They went over the top with the Meryn Trant piece at the end, but overall very well done.


9) The entire last 3 episodes. TV is a different medium than books, I don't expect TV to be flawless, I expect it to be entertaining. If you weren't entertained by the last 3 episodes than you are probably overthinking things.




The bad



1) Dorne was all messed up. While I am a big fan of the actor who played Doran, they turned him from a character who is weak from the outside but strong and cunning on the inside, to a character who seems tough and powerful from the outside, but seems completely clueless and lost. Jamie was fine, but his character growth was stunted as compared to his arc in the books.


2) Sansa & Ramsey... I understand that it made sense to have Sansa who we actually care about in the storyline rather than fake Arya. And as far as the sexual assaults on the show went, this was one that had to stay imo. But it just doesn't make any sense to me how the real Stansa Stark can just show up and no one in Kings Landing finds out or cares. Yes, I know they are busy at the end of the season, but this seems like a major bit of treason by both the Bolton's and Little finger that someone would address.


3) Shireen. I'll be forever haunted by her screams. The way it all played out it seemed so pointless.


4) Too much sexual assault. The walk of shame was a key part of the season and had to be left in. Whoever Ramsey's wife was had to be assaulted. But those two horrible moments should have been left on their own. Why did they have to throw in Gilley's assault, and Meryn Trant. It's getting to be too much.


5) The first 3 episodes. Really slow start to the season, it wasn't bad but it definitely didn't match the intensity of previous seasons.



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Unfortunately, you can't have it both ways. If Thorne isn't a dummy and recognizes the sense of Jon's argument about letting the wildlings through so there would be less cannon fodder for the Others, then he would also be intelligent enough to realize that killing the only crow the wildlings trusted after you just let a couple of thousand of them onto your side of the Wall means that they're just going to turn right around and slaughter the remainder of the Night's Watch.

Remember, the show has been drilling it into our heads that there are fewer than 100 brothers left at Castle Black. There are at least 10 times that many wildlings on the south side of the Wall. Even if Thorne had made a deal with the Boltons, the Bolton army wouldn't get to Castle Black in time to prevent the slaughter from occurring (remember, they needed to keep their men to protect against Stannis).

If Thorne had been planning this all along (which, let's face it, he would have had to been planning it all along - he didn't just wake up one day thinking today's a good day to kill the only man keeping the wildlings from killing us all), then he needed only keep the gates closed and let Jon and all the wildlings starve or freeze to death (because of the other huge plot hole of having them show up on the wrong side of the Wall) and then he keeps the remaining brothers safe. So, the only logical conclusion is that Thorne just became a blinding idiot all of a sudden, or the show writers think that we're all blinding idiots.

Yes, you're absolutely right about the unlikeness of Thorne planning it all along with the Boltons. Ok I'm cheating a bit there but I saw somewhere else the argument that Thorne let them through because Stannis said he would be back after his victory or send troupes to the wall (and even if he didn't Jon and him were allies). Once Thorne knew it was over for Stannis he made his move against Jon.

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books are the books. we are talking about a tv show. they said they want to stop at 7 and have been talking about ending at 7 for a while i doubt they get 8 but like a two part split like breaking bad and mad men i could see.

i don't they are ever doing aegon and team

You go ahead and take the word of a couple Hollywood producers with the biggest money making machine of recent memory in their possession; I'll remain skeptical. :cheers:

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You don't live in a winter climate do you? Big snow banks that aren't walked on and are hidden from sun exposure due to huge walls take longer to melt. There's still a big snowbank for them to jump into.

Aren't the outer walls of Winterfell 80 feet tall? There wasn't much evidence of any snow banks in any of the scenes that I could see, but let's be generous and assume there is a huge 20 feet tall snow bank right underneath that wall. Even then, a jump like that isn't likely to end well. But maybe they were committing suicide together, because even death is preferable to a life with Ramsay. Even if they both by some miracle manage to land safely, he'd be right behind with them with horses and hounds.

Personally, I'm inclined to think Sansa is dead. Theon, too.

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You go ahead and take the word of a couple Hollywood producers with the biggest money making machine of recent memory in their possession; I'll remain skeptical. :cheers:

That is the thing they are contract workers themselves they don't get a cut or something of the DVD sales and it would be a great coup for FX or amazon or showtime or any number of networks to get them to do something for them that would not require year around work and international shooting. they could make same money in 3 years time running a show for fx from their pools in burbank.

Josh whedon is stepping away from avengers for the same reason.

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Aren't the outer walls of Winterfell 80 feet tall? There wasn't much evidence of any snow banks in any of the scenes that I could see, but let's be generous and assume there is a huge 20 feet tall snow bank right underneath that wall. Even then, a jump like that isn't likely to end well. But maybe they were committing suicide together, because even death is preferable to a life with Ramsay. Even if they both by some miracle manage to land safely, he'd be right behind with them with horses and hounds.

Personally, I'm inclined to think Sansa is dead. Theon, too.

naw they jumped into a big snow bank it would make sense too snow stays around for awhile look at boston.

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Aren't the outer walls of Winterfell 80 feet tall? There wasn't much evidence of any snow banks in any of the scenes that I could see, but let's be generous and assume there is a huge 20 feet tall snow bank right underneath that wall. Even then, a jump like that isn't likely to end well. But maybe they were committing suicide together, because even death is preferable to a life with Ramsay. Even if they both by some miracle manage to land safely, he'd be right behind with them with horses and hounds.

Personally, I'm inclined to think Sansa is dead. Theon, too.

NO way they are dead. Snow melts very very slowly on north facing structures. The VFX people overdid it with the height of the walls and the snow banks. But as in the books, the jump is an escape.

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NO way they are dead. Snow melts very very slowly on north facing structures. The VFX people overdid it with the height of the walls and the snow banks. But as in the books, the jump is an escape.

There is no snow on the ground when Sansa walks through the castle and not a drop of snow where Myranda falls, and no snow on the ground where Stannis is fighting, yet miraculously a 20 foot snow drift is right there where the show needs one? LOL.

It doesn't matter, but why try to justify it when their own segment is totally inconsistent in terms of snow? The snow bank existed because they needed it to, not because it was on the North side of anything.

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There is no snow on the ground when Sansa walks through the castle and not a drop of snow where Myranda falls, and no snow on the ground where Stannis is fighting, yet miraculously a 20 foot snow drift is right there where the show needs one? LOL.

It doesn't matter, but why try to justify it when their own segment is totally inconsistent in terms of snow? The snow bank existed because they needed it to, not because it was on the North side of anything.

People shovel snow in their castles. Winterfell has been relatively snow-shoveled entire season. When you shovel snow, the layer remaining left melts first. You think Winterfell just sits around in a snow drift within a castle, on the battlements, right before a siege? Or would they clear the area of snow? Hrmmm....

Snow on a grassy plain melts FAST compared to a wind blown drift shielded by a structure. If you were a mountaineer, you would realize this. You can have 20 feet of snow on one side of a mountain and 2 inches on the other, mere feet apart.

Just look at a walmart parking lot in April of a heavy snow year. You'll have huge snow piles and NONE on the pavement.

Sheesh, do you have no exposure to snow at all?

Edited by Spilt Pea Soup

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There is no snow on the ground when Sansa walks through the castle and not a drop of snow where Myranda falls, and no snow on the ground where Stannis is fighting, yet miraculously a 20 foot snow drift is right there where the show needs one? LOL.

It doesn't matter, but why try to justify it when their own segment is totally inconsistent in terms of snow? The snow bank existed because they needed it to, not because it was on the North side of anything.

that is also a place where people walk and would shove the snow and the other is a place where people would let it build and dump more on to it.

also try to film in 5 feet of snow!! nobody is doing that.

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Holy...



Well, let look for the silver lining: Sothoyros may become a pretty nice, disease-free, temperate place during the incoming glacial age that nobody will be able to stop (or even try to stop it because everybody will be too busy fighting everybody else)...


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NO way they are dead. Snow melts very very slowly on north facing structures. The VFX people overdid it with the height of the walls and the snow banks. But as in the books, the jump is an escape.

Ok, let's assume that. I don't remember exactly how this went down in the books, I'll admit. But in the show, Ramsay is just returning and on his way to pay his new wife a visit. The first thing he'll see, is the dead body of his ex-girlfriend laying in the yard...

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Who is going to burn her? There is no one at the wall that believes in the R'hllor.

Davos might as payback for Shireen.

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Davos might as payback for Shireen.

She throws herself into the pyre similar to Dany in Season 1. How does she do it? Easy, she farts out a spell of black magic that creates a fart circle that no one can pass through, and they watch in horror.

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Ok, let's assume that. I don't remember exactly how this went down in the books, I'll admit. But in the show, Ramsay is just returning and on his way to pay his new wife a visit. The first thing he'll see, is the dead body of his ex-girlfriend laying in the yard...

yep or maybe dad will tell himself as the utter troll that his dad is at his core.

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I think the right question is: "Is Jon's story over"?

They did said that Jon's Snow story is over. Jon Snow yes, but they never said anything about Jon Targaryen or whatever his new name will be.

Edited by Lord Friendzone

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They did said that Jon's Snow story is over. Jon Snow yes, but they never said anything about Jon Targaryen or whatever his new name will be.

I've seen them say he's dead in several interviews. I've yet to read anyone say his story is over.

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