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[Book Spoilers] EP510 Discussion

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As for being in the minority... looks like for the show rating, "1" is running neck and neck with "10." So no, not really. Many people found this episode to be really bad. If you read the comments, many who rated it 8 / 10 still had many complaints.

You also have to realize that 10 is winning still and has been for awhile. Almost 50% of the people that voted gave it either a 10, 9, or 8. So the three highest scores take up half the vote.

Then despite 1 being really high, only 35% of the vote gave it either a 1, 2, 3, 4. So the clear minority is giving it a below average score. And only around 30% is giving it the three lowest scores. So it's misleading to just say 1 and 10 are pretty close. It skews on the higher end.

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I gave it 5 seconds of thought and I came up with:

1) "All the horses are gone." Mel rides into WF on horse

2) "How dare you try to kill our Lannister guest, I am outraged! . . . But come say goodbye to them on the dock today, You, me, them, bring your murderous daughter and her friends too . . . don't be late, wear that nice lipstick you have."

3) Jorah, Tyrion and gang are alive after being surrounded in a pit by so hostile a host, a fire-breathing dragon in berserker mode had to be led away or else would have died.

4) "The fuck we need horses for anyway, we're camped like 20 mins walk from Winterfell, let's leg it, gang."

5) "Let's Jump." "Are you crazy? Did you even watch the battle, it isn't snowing and there's like an inch of snow on the ground.." "Fuck it, we good."

6) "Renly, the rightful heir . . . " Has least legitimate claim to throne.

holy holes

None of these are plot holes. Brienne is saying what her character believes to be true. She was sworn to Renly and loved him.

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OK, let's start with really basic plot holes. If the Martels' plan is to assassinate Myrcella 500 feet off of the docks of 'Sunspear' or wherever that was supposed to be, why in fuck's name would they send their heir Trystane to the Lannisters?

Anyone?

The point of killing her is to start a war - so why send the heir to your royal seat unprotected into King's Landing? It's going to be really damn clear who fucking killed her. I mean, you don't have to read the books to realize that makes no sense. That has NOTHING to do with nitpicks about adaptation. That just doesn't make any damn sense.

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Daenerys is really annoying and I hope we won't see her as a eventual ruler in the end.

Then go watch another show, because she will rule in the end. The book ending might be different, but D&D will make sure the audience get their happy ending, and that is Queen Dany on the Iron Throne to curtain call this story.

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None of these are plot holes. Brienne is saying what her character believes to be true. She was sworn to Renly and loved him.

Those are all plot holes. Every single one. I particularly like how they showed us the snow melting a few miles from Winterfell, and that there is hardly any snow on the ground, and then Theon and Sansa just jump off the wall. I mean... come on. That has nothing to do with nitpicks about book to show adaptations. That's just stupid.

ETA: just about as stupid as having Petyr leaving Robyn Arryn in the Vale (his tenuous and only claim to power there) and then go deliver Sansa on a plate to the Boltons (stupid beyond belief) and then for Roose not to just say "thank you" and cut Littlefingers head off (what he would have done). Just about as stupid as Jamie trying to play James Bond to sneak into a kingdom that he's supposedly allies with. 1.) he's not james Bond, and he doesn't know Dorne, and 2.) he's the LC of the KG and the Lannisters are "allies" with Dorne, he can just go there with a royal delegation if he wants.

Edited by Lucifer means Lightbringer

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So is everyone done watching this terrible show now? This seals the deal, right?

It is actually one of the best shows... still watching and will continue.. take your propaganda back to the rock you came from.

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OK, let's start with really basic plot holes. If the Martels' plan is to assassinate Myrcella 500 feet off of the docks of 'Sunspear' or wherever that was supposed to be, why in fuck's name would they send their heir Trystane to the Lannisters?

Anyone?

The point of killing her is to start a war - so why send the heir to your royal seat unprotected into King's Landing? It's going to be really damn clear who fucking killed her. I mean, you don't have to read the books to realize that makes no sense. That has NOTHING to do with nitpicks about adaptation. That just doesn't make any damn sense.

Isn't the point that Ellaria Sand wants to start a war, has no real respect for or fear of Doran and doesn't give a fuck what happens to Trystane.

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And how the F Varys managed to get into a pyramid? Wouldn't the Unsullied be all red alert? Did he say "I'm friends with the imp" and the Unsullied said "ah, ok!". :dunno:


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I love the way AFFC has been reinvented as a great novel. It really wasn't. I love the books but that was a pile of shit.

I didn't say AFFC was a great novel (I don't think it was), I said it had integrity and nuance, like all of the books do. Everyone in AFFC acts from deep character motivations and things happen in a logical and believable way.

The show simply does not respect its characters. It operates purely on TV logic, flinging people around on a dartboard for contrived reasons.

Maybe you don't care about that. That's fine, when I am watching a trashy TV show I don't care about it either.

P.S. You do not love the books if you think one of them was shit.

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Isn't the point that Ellaria Sand wants to start a war, has no real respect for or fear of Doran and doesn't give a fuck what happens to Trystane.

A war they already lost. They have Trystane. Is Doran going to attack KL when they have Trystane? Why? To let the Martells without an heir? In a war they cannot win? :dunno:

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I sometimes wish that the show was made by a really bad production team. Think Xena or Vikings or Black Sails. Just so the show haters here could get a taste of how awful it could actually be. And then they might appreciate the acting and writing, which is by and large *very* good for television (except Dorne) and also the rich costume and art and set design, which is leagues beyond anything ever attempted.

It makes me sad that so many people on here can't enjoy a wonderful show just because it isn't exactly like the books.

There likely wont' be a more well-crafted fantasy series on television, at least in our lifetimes. So enjoy it, or don't, but I feel sorry that you're missing out because of your stubbornness.

it makes me sad that people being sad about the show makes you sad

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I do agree that D & D may not have had the best season here, I think not resolving story lines is their way of giving Martin until January or February to get the book out, so he can tell us instead of them.



If the book isn't out by February well shame on George.


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Do you actually have a defense of the show other than, "it's popular"?

In terms of integrity, depth, character, theme, nuance, pacing, and impact, was For the Watch in the books not far superior to its show counterpart?

This has always been a book website, and we're obviously going to critique the show from that perspective.

God you're insufferable. I was pointing to the popularity in response to a different post. The post was that the show is so terrible and even unsullied now think it's a farce and anyone who likes it is an HBO troll. I pointed out that this is just objectively insane. But thanks for moving the goalposts.

I have posted a defense SEVERAL times.

Quickly:

1) Tyrion's travelogue cut -- better than books

2) Tyrion meeting Dany -- better than books

3) Sansa not eating Lemoncakes all season -- better

4) Brienne not doing absolutely nothing on screen constantly -- better

5) Getting rid of Quentyn the Irrelevant Plot -- better

6) Ditto JonCon and Young Grifter

7) Resolution to Winterfell Battle

8) Hardhome being on screen

Worse:

1) Dorne -- sucked

2) Daznak's Pit -- not as good

3) Varys -- leaving out pycell and kevan killing sucked but probably next season

Anyway, some of you are living in an alternate reality where the show has no logistical constraints at all, when in reality writing a book and making a big budget cable show are two different things. Location filming, actors, timing, CGI, entertainment purposes (audience pleasing), these are all things that put actual constraints on the plot.

Had HBO made ADWD and AFFC into 4 seasons as some of the Pollyanna's around here wanted to happen, then the show would have gone the way of Rome and been cancelled before arriving at a conclusion.

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No clue why people need to argue with each other. You like the show? Great. You enjoy the books? That's great too.



I like both, and understand they cant exactly do and show everything from the books, and I get the books have more depth. I read the books to get the juicy stuff and to feel fulfilled, while I enjoy the show for the entertainment factor and because this is the only way you'll see this novel get adapted.


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