[Poll] How would you rate episode 510?

[Tony Inchpractice]

I'm going with a 5. Nonsensical plot holes and the absolute joke of the Winterfell resolution only halfway compensated by the Arya and Nights Watch scenes. I have to say though- my god has the writing of the show descended from season 1, and this is from one of D&D's supporters! I'm absolutely outraged at Stannis' death. The dothraki scene was poorly done in terms of cinematography. And if you're seriously telling me that was the point of the Dorne plot....

Ditto

[Hodor's Dragon]

Kind of hard to rate, but I gave it an 8. On a meta-level, it was an amazing sequence of huge events and plot twists. But when you drill down, most of the individual scenes had real problems.

[Hippocras]

The more and more the show proves fan theories carefully cradled even for over a decade to be false the more and more the ratings for the episodes on this site drop. It's beautiful.

haha true!

[dbunting]

^^^ This is true more than anything else. The person they like dies or is not shown as they would like to see them and the ratings crash, the show sucks, writing sucks blah blah blah.

[Narea]

I gave it a five...

Meereen was ironically the best part of this episode with KL coming in close second, though Robert Strong was cringeworthy in his obviousness. Even the Wall wasn't all bad, when you ignore the fact that Jon's conversation with Sam is pretty much the exact opposite of what happens in the books. My only beef with the Wall is the end where the closing shot is just wrong...the whole scene doesn't live up to the closing scenes from previous seasons, but that closing shot is just bad. O probably wouldn't mint it as much if the shot was made to focus out on the larger surroundings like all the previous season closing shots. But this one focuses in and the result is just weird. From purely visional point, it would have made more sense to end the season with Dany's closing shot.

I now realize that I probably shouldn't have made it a five, because I rated it as compared to other GoT episodes, not other TV. It should have been more like 7 or 8. The good parts mostly balance the bad parts out and Dany was spot on.

[Gertrude]

Rated it a 4 because there were some good moments, but overall the big scenes missed for me. My biggest dissappointment was 'for the Watch'. It wasn't impactful. Yes, I know that separating the book and show is something I should try to take into account, but it's nearly impossible. That scene, while probably shocking for non-book readers, left me feeling meh.

Cersei's walk was good. I thought Heady killed it with her acting. I wasn't fond of the bell-ringing sister shouting shame over and over - yes, we get it, it's a walk of shame.

Arya killing Trant was fine, but again, it was too over the top feral for me. I know, she's a tiny rage filled killer, but it was just off for me. And the scene at the face vault was too non-sensical for me. I like that in the books the faces are bonded with blood magic and not just hand-waved into 'a wizard did it' type magic that anyone can apparently do if they can get ahold of a face. And The bit where she pulls off face after face? No thank you. I don't feel like they handle supernatural at all well. In my opinion, this ranks with the Children of the forest throwing magical fireballs like a schlocky sword and sorcery movie. The magic should have gravitas and weight.

Anyway, it's still mainly fine, but too many things felt off and overall it left me feeling dissappointed at nearly every turn.

[RedViperHD]

^^^ This is true more than anything else. The person they like dies or is not shown as they would like to see them and the ratings crash, the show sucks, writing sucks blah blah blah.

Yeah, maybe you just really liked the Boltons or Brienne, but tell me how it is good writing to continue the show with the characters from the show that are 1 dimensional? In fact, just explain to me the many complexities and dimensions of the characters remaining on the show like Ramsay/Roose/Brienne/Littlefinger/Sansa. When that is explained to me (their complex motivations, their story arc, the amount of screen time we have with them) then I will be convinced that the show's writing is NOT getting worse and it's just my bias for other characters. Honestly, my only loyalty to any character on the show, my only hope for the show, is that I want to see interesting drama on the screen. It's my humble opinion that moving forward with the 1 dimensional characters (and in some cases, less talented of the actors on the show) will not make for great drama or a very interesting Season 6, and that Roose/Ramsay/Brienne/Littlefinger/Sansa will all have to depend on Dany and Tyrion to keep the show interesting (yikes! not if we're STILL in Meereen!) I'm fine with bad guys winning, just bad guys with screen time that we get to know well and understand their motivations like Tywin and Stannis and Jaime and even Cersei to some extent. All those characters have layers to them. The Boltons and Littlefinger do not have any layers to them. They kill people and torture them and that's all that they do. The show has been fine with this. You know what? Ok, fine, you need characters like that. However, what you do NOT need is those characters becoming your main characters because then the show just become cartoonish or lets face it, with all the rape and torture, Porno-ish, and for no justifiable reason. Imagine a season with just the Sand Snakes playing handslap games, Brienne killing everyone, Littlefinger vs Boltons, Ramsay torturing people and no characters with deeper levels to them to make the show interesting. That sounds horribly boring to me and that sounds like Season 6. In fact, THAT WAS Season 5 if you removed Stannis and Jon from it. So if what we have to look forward to in Season 6 is basically Season 5 all over again without Stannis and Jon (and all the other interesting characters that have died) then imagine that. Imagine this season with MORE Sand Snakes, more Dorne, More Ramsay, More Brienne, More Sam and Gilly and nothing else. That could be season 6. Can Peter Dinklage and Rory McCan (if he even returns) really carry an entire season on their shoulders alone? Half the time we meet new characters like Euron Greyjoy will be spent as introductions and building (hopefully, these characters are complex characters.) And Dany is still on the far side of the world so I don't have much hope for that storyline. Just awful.

[239JMFL34109]

It is not as bad as all that. One contingent is simply more vocal. As of this writing, 721 people have voted, well more than half (391) have given the show a 7 or higher.

I agree. I was talk more about the shade on the boards and the "admins got to check ip addresses" talk it is great fun.

[239JMFL34109]

1/1: FTW on the show lacked the pathos and tragedy in the books. It was reduced to a group of xenophobic assholes who are so used to fighting wildlings they can't see the forest for the trees, even though we just saw NK raise a huge army of the dead only two episodes ago. And Olly never swore an oath to protect, so what the hell is he even talking about ffs!

how is that different ? there is a whole "we always fought the wildings" vibe to all of it to me but everyone has a different view on it. i remember reading where someone said they thought they went after jon because he is a warg. I don't even think the watch really believes wargs are real let alone thinks jon is one.

[RedViperHD]

and speaking to the complex character that is Ramsay Bolton, I actually laughed when he killed that last soldier on the ground. I mean it was silly. Do they really need to establish that Ramsay is a cold human being with no redeemable qualities over and over again? It's character building the first few times but when you do it again and again, it's not character building anymore because the point has been established, it's pure shock value and wasted screen time that could have been used for a more interesting character/scene. I'm sorry but shock jocks do that, not good writers.

Edited June 15, 2015 by RedViperHD

[239JMFL34109]

and speaking to the complex character that is Ramsay Bolton, I actually laughed when he killed that last soldier on the ground. I mean it was silly. Do they really need to establish that Ramsay is a cold human being with no redeemable qualities over and over again. It's character building the first few times but when you do it again and again, it's not character building anymore, it's pure shock value.

if feel like any other action would be out of character for him.

[RedViperHD]

if feel like any other action would be out of character for him.

But why did it NEED to be there? Was it neccessary for his character to even include that? Did it build something or add something to his character? Did it establish something that we didn't already know about him? I thought that it had been established that he was a cold SOB that one time he cut off someones penis and pretended to eat it or that time he raped our protagonist? Did they really need to waste screen time with Ramsay killing a nameless soldier in a brutal way just so that the audience would be what, shocked? I'm sure there are a segment of fans who are 5 and think that kind of thing was "soooooo cool" but I was bored by it and I acutally chuckled out loud. Watching Ramsay torture people with no arc and no development will not be "cool" to me in Season 6. It will just be boring and more of the same.

[239JMFL34109]

But why did it NEED to be there? Was it neccessary for his character to even include that? Did it build something or add something to his character? Did it establish something that we didn't already know about him? I thought that it had been established that he was a cold SOB that one time he cut off someones penis and pretended to eat it or that time he raped our protagonist? Did they really need to waste screen time with Ramsay killing a nameless soldier in a brutal way just so that the audience would be what, shocked? I'm sure there are a segment of fans who are 5 and think that kind of thing was "soooooo cool" but I was bored by it and I acutally chuckled out loud. Watching Ramsay torture people with no arc and no development will not be "cool" to me in Season 6. It will just be boring and more of the same.

IF hew as not there "where was Ramsay?" would be going around like "LF is MIA?" is going around now. it makes sense he was there i would like more roose ramsay scenes.

[Turin Stark]

how is that different ? there is a whole "we always fought the wildings" vibe to all of it to me but everyone has a different view on it. i remember reading where someone said they thought they went after jon because he is a warg. I don't even think the watch really believes wargs are real let alone thinks jon is one.

To me FTW was ridiculous due to the events at Hardhome. After such a hit and with so many witnesses from night's watch, wildlings and Stannis's men the humans would have moderately bonded and not killed the only one who joined them all together.

In the book it makes sense because no one was aware of such massacre (only that there were dead things in the water). The fist of the first men can't count when compared to the Hardhome battle in the show.

Edited June 15, 2015 by Turin Stark

[239JMFL34109]

To me FTW was ridiculous due to the events at Hardhome. After such a hit and with so many witnesses from night's watch, wildlings and Stannis's men the humans would have moderately bonded and not killed the only one who joined them all together.

In the book it makes sense because no one was aware of such massacre. The 1st of the first men can't count when compared to the Hardhome battle in the show.

I feel like FTW feel stupid after the fist of the first men and so did all of the watches reactions to jon's decisions but they were all understandable and human reactions to me. don't see why the watch would believe jon or the men that went with him or the wildings? most of these guys didn't trust him anyway as they didn't vote for him.

[kimim]

Yeah, maybe you just really liked the Boltons or Brienne, but tell me how it is good writing to continue the show with the characters from the show that are 1 dimensional?...

This is why I don't believe Jon is dead, either on show or in the books. If he's dead-dead, then, as you say, no one's left in the North to take up the slack. Sansa/Brienne are not strong enough to take over. Boltons are villains in both, and without a lot of layers; Roose is a bit more complex, but that's about it. Bran is a crippled little boy with godly powers, which means that he's perfect where he is, working the way Varys did, in the shadows, but he can't lead people or prepare a defense. Well, he can, but I can't see it.

Others who could--Jaime, Dany, Tyrion--are far away.

Littlefinger is also far away, and his motives are mysterious in both show/novels, but he's another villain, and he's not going to lead the North.

That leaves Jon. If Jon's dead in the show, then he's dead in the novels. It's one thing to change Brienne's plot, it's another to kill one of three leading characters. If he's dead in either, I'll keep reading/watching, just to see how they carry on.

Edited June 15, 2015 by kimim

[lancerman]

But why did it NEED to be there? Was it neccessary for his character to even include that? Did it build something or add something to his character? Did it establish something that we didn't already know about him? I thought that it had been established that he was a cold SOB that one time he cut off someones penis and pretended to eat it or that time he raped our protagonist? Did they really need to waste screen time with Ramsay killing a nameless soldier in a brutal way just so that the audience would be what, shocked? I'm sure there are a segment of fans who are 5 and think that kind of thing was "soooooo cool" but I was bored by it and I acutally chuckled out loud. Watching Ramsay torture people with no arc and no development will not be "cool" to me in Season 6. It will just be boring and more of the same.

It was like a minute long scene that established where he was and that he was coming back to Winterfell to create urgency for Sansa and Theon.

[kissdbyfire]

Wow. Just... wow.

I gave it a 1. I’m not sure if it was the worst episode ever, but it was one of the most underwhelming episodes of anything I’ve ever watched. Ever.

So, 1.

For the assassinated characters. For the murder of logic. For the cheapening of everything in the name of shock.

For Alexander Siddig, Jonathan Pryce, Anton Lesser, Ian McElhinney, Michael McElhatton, Aimee Richardsaon, Ciarán Hinds, and many many others.

Watching and enjoying this show doesn't require suspension of disbelief, it requires a lobotomy.

So, 13 or 15 mins in and it's 'battle of ice (LOLOLOL) is over. A relief, no more Satannis. Ramsay really is something else, isn't he? wow.

What came next? Whatever. What was it that one of the actors that plays a Sand Snake said about their big ‘wow moment’? Wut? The poisoned kiss. Jaime tries to tell Myrcella he is her dad, but she knew and was totes cool and happy about it all. wow.

And then she dies! In his arms! Or doesn't die, who the hell cares anyway?
So not only no letter from Carol, but now he not only fucked up his 'sensitive diplomatic mission' but got their daughter killed. That useless Larry, I can't imagine how hard life must be for Carol. wow.
I do wonder what the hell has NCW done that made showrunners keep him in the dog house all season.

Arya. wow. Couldn't we have had Trant pick one girl out of a group of three? No. No, we had to see him beating all three girls up. wow.
The face change reveal was so obvious it was silly. My head hurts. wow.
And the actual kill? I guess it's 'The Braavos Shiv Massacre'. :eek:

And at the HoBaW? There's no training, no nothing. You join, and after you've washed a few corpses they show you were the faces are kept. When you need one, you go there, pick the one you want and you're all set.
Still not sure about the meaning of the Jaqen and another Jaqen. Jaqen's double was there to poison himself. They will bring Syrio back. wow

What else? Ah the Wall. Sam decides to move to Oldtown with Gilly and Baby de Leon™, and he'll become a maester but he'll never give yup women. wow
And Jon agrees, even though, 'oh I'm going to be all alone, but ok'. Whatever.
And speaking of Sam's departure... Two minutes of a stupid convo between Jon and Sam - cut - Sam, Gilly and Baby de Leon are already taking off! :lol:

HS and Cersei was fine. The short hair wig is absolutely horrendous, an abomination. I didn't understand why the crowd was throwing Branston pickle at her but fine. Ser Robert Strong.

Meh. Marg and Loras have gone to the Riverlands. Either that or they fled on a row boat. :uhoh:
WoS easily the best scene of the episode; in fact, it was the only good scene. And it's very telling that that's because of Lena's acting alone since the scene was blissfully devoid of the showrunners cringeworthy dialogue.

Reek becomes Theon off camera, Sansa's 'empowerment' is really all there for all to see. Wow

Drogon out of commission and Dany Damsel in distress. Again. wow.

For the Potatoes - had called it - most underwhelming scene this year.
Where the fuck is Ghost, FFS?
Ghost had become Sam's pet but since Sam didn't take him to Oldtown, I guess he's the 'firehouse Dalmatian' now. wow

WOW

The Benjen fakeout was a deliberate hype, created by Ds/HBO, up to the precocious ejaculation of the 'previously on' released early in the afternoon (I think) by HBO affiliate. And it was very clever, given how many people bought into it. :laugh:

[Gargarax]

2/10

I have no idea if that thing I just watched was "Game of Thrones". I keep hoping I wake up and find it was all a bad dream. Unlikely though.

Some of the scenes were so unspeakably bad that I find it hard to compare it to any other scene ever seen on TV. I won't even bother to write down my complaints. The few moments that weren't terrible were during Cersei's walk, that's what I give 2 points for. The rest is a thing for which no word has yet been invented.

Luckily, this is the end of the series. At least for me. I will not watch one minute of the next season, and leave this thread to those who still manage to enjoy this ... thing. Good for you.

I, however, feel l want to cast the curse on this series that Servillia cast on Atia in "Rome". I wish it a slow and painful death.

[RedViperHD]

It was like a minute long scene that established where he was and that he was coming back to Winterfell to create urgency for Sansa and Theon.

Ok, I was never confused as to where Ramsay was and I think just a shot of him riding back to Winterfell could have done the trick, but I'll buy that. Now I'm just waiting for someone to justify the other 1 million times that Ramsay has tortured someone AFTER it had already been established that he was a psychopath.