lancerman Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Also noteworthy: Number of viewers doesn't equal good ratings. And if one TV is on and 100 people view it, do they count that? Or do they count in the illegal streamers? I think s1 and s2 might have had the same numbers as now, but lot of people didn't have HBO subscriptions then. And then ratings. Thousands of people go into cinema and are then reviewing the film badly. So there is that. And, if only the last episode had a large number of viewers, well that isn't too rosy either. It means the season was bland and skippable and they only wanted to see the finale. Everything is relative and should be looked at thoroughly before reading something into it that isn't. You are arguing something about the rating systems that people have been arguing for decades. But the main point is they are doing extremely well by which the barometers of how we judge success in television. And HBO has far more information than us. They know how many people watch Game of Thrones first airings, then the repeat, then the airing during the week, then on HBO go and Now, they know how many people subscribe when GOT is on, they know how many leave when it is off, they have all the methods to know how that correlates, how many people buy the season sets etc. That said it's highly doubtful the first two seasons have just as much viewers as this one when it was actually on. Yes people probably went back to catch up so most people are now on the same wave length but that isn't what matters Also as far as reading into something that isn't there. Just because the finale was higher, doesn't mean people weren't interested. It means that more people made sure to watch the night the finale debuts. When an episode can be DVR'd or watched on demand or on HBO go a little bit later a lot of people will do that during the season then show up night of for episodes they thought were big. For instance, a lot of people watched basketball and hockey those sundays and watched the show on HBO go after. That effects the first airing viewership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Also noteworthy: Number of viewers doesn't equal good ratings. And if one TV is on and 100 people view it, do they count that? Or do they count in the illegal streamers? I think s1 and s2 might have had the same numbers as now, but lot of people didn't have HBO subscriptions then. And then ratings. Thousands of people go into cinema and are then reviewing the film badly. So there is that. And, if only the last episode had a large number of viewers, well that isn't too rosy either. It means the season was bland and skippable and they only wanted to see the finale. Everything is relative and should be looked at thoroughly before reading something into it that isn't. You are arguing something about the rating systems that people have been arguing for decades. But the main point is they are doing extremely well by which the barometers of how we judge success in television. And HBO has far more information than us. They know how many people watch Game of Thrones first airings, then the repeat, then the airing during the week, then on HBO go and Now, they know how many people subscribe when GOT is on, they know how many leave when it is off, they have all the methods to know how that correlates, how many people buy the season sets etc. That said it's highly doubtful the first two seasons have just as much viewers as this one when it was actually on. Yes people probably went back to catch up so most people are now on the same wave length but that isn't what matters Also as far as reading into something that isn't there. Just because the finale was higher, doesn't mean people weren't interested. It means that more people made sure to watch the night the finale debuts. When an episode can be DVR'd or watched on demand or on HBO go a little bit later a lot of people will do that during the season then show up night of for episodes they thought were big. For instance, a lot of people watched basketball and hockey those sundays and watched the show on HBO go after. That effects the first airing viewership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Thats right KBF, they're offended by the critique- annnnnnnnddddd then go and viciously attack those who didn't like the show. The only reason why I'm "butt hurt," is the time I wasted sitting on it watching the damn thing and waiting for it to get better. <snip>Call me a butthurt rabid nerd, I shall wear it as a badge of honour. :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedViperHD Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Because if Sansa was going to be in Winterfell with the Boltons at all she was going to have too be Jeyne Poole because the entire reason Jeyne Pool exists is because they can't get their hands on Sansa or Arya to do the exact same thing to them. Thats why. It actually was the most logical thing in keeping with the books if you brought Sansa there. In my opinion, the goal of the show should not be to match the books, it should be to create a good show. Again, it added or subtracted nothing from Sansa or Ramsay. and again IF she even needed to be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blackmont Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 They could have had Roose forbid him from raping her on the wedding night. My point is that they can, and have, done whatever they want with scant regard to the Book version of the character. Just because Sansa married Ramsey doesn't mean the rape has to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metopheles Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I agree with that popularity does not equal quality. Personally, I think the season was very irregular. But the fact is that the show remains extremely popular, like it or not . But we are debating here the ratings and quality ;) Simpsons is still on and bringing in money. Quality died a long time ago. Same with many other American shows that started pretty neat, but are now dying an embarrassing death. We want to prevent that happening to this show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metopheles Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 They could have had Roose forbid him from raping her on the wedding night. My point is that they can, and have, done whatever they want with scant regard to the Book version of the character. Just because Sansa married Ramsey doesn't mean the rape has to happen. They made a point that suddenly Roose really cares for an heir and that an heir is all that matters in Westeros, yet make the one guy that is the most concerned about his heir burn her at a stake before he intended to run into victory and glory. Before he even had something to give to his heir. It was nonsensical and a plothole for their court intrigue story they want to sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 And HBO has far more information than us. Like how they had access to Alayne I from tWoW and still sent the girl to Winterfell to be raped? They do have more information than us, that doesn't mean they will use it well and wisely. Or use it at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldric Storm Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 They could have had Roose forbid him from raping her on the wedding night. My point is that they can, and have, done whatever they want with scant regard to the Book version of the character. Just because Sansa married Ramsey doesn't mean the rape has to happen. Doesn't Jeyne get raped in the books? Roose can hardly control Ramsay they guy is completely evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Doesn't Jeyne get raped in the books? Roose can hardly control Ramsay they guy is completely evil. He knows Jeyne is not actually a Stark. He probably doesn't care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 In my opinion, the goal of the show should not be to match the books, it should be to create a good show. Again, it added or subtracted nothing from Sansa or Ramsay. and again IF she even needed to be there. Well the logic behind it would be, Sansa really hasn't done a whole lot in the Vale in the books. And for such a major character it doesn't make good television. Now this is just guess work. But they probably know where Sansa ends up and it's likely in the Winterfell area. And rather than have Sansa have only two or three scenes this season, they wanted to get her there faster. So they invented LF using Cersie to get the okay to attack the Vale to get Sansa to the North faster instead of just holding her story off. That way when the Vale comes back into play (likely in the North) Sansa is right there for it. But now she has something to do. And rather than eating lemmon cakes she's in the thick of things, in the middle of a huge war, part of the Bolton's plan to legitimize their claim on Winterfell, and part of Theon's redemption arc (which honestly makes it better for the show because more people associate Sansa and Theon together than they ever would Jeyne). So the benefit of Sansa being their is -she is not put on the back burner in the Vale -she is part of Theon's redemption arc -she has something to do until her book story actually picks up the pace and the can align it better. -she actually gives the Bolton's a lot more weight and credence by marrying Ramsay -she gives Brienne a logical explanation for being at Winterfell when Stannis attacks (because LSH got cut, so naturally Brienne would track Sansa) -It allows for Stannis to die at the hands of Brienne after he loses battle (like the Pink Letter indicates) and he pays for killing Renly, rather than likely dying at the hands of an unnamed soldier or the Boltons, which brings Stannis' story full circle, and doesn't change the greater point of him losing and dying at Winterfell. The unfortunate cost is -the most sensible way to get Sansa there is that Jeyne Poole exists for a purpose that Sansa is the most ideal person that could fulfill that purpose and sadly you have to take the bad with that plot and Sansa gets raped. Though a much tamer version of it. But even that is like you were probably going to get Jeyne Poole anyways because they clearly wanted Theon's redemption to come here. So it was almost a lateral move. The issue that arises is that it was Sansa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Like how they had access to Alayne I from tWoW and still sent the girl to Winterfell to be raped? They do have more information than us, that doesn't mean they will use it well and wisely. Or use it at all. This is like so out of context its embarrassing. I was talking about viewers and ratings not the story. Stop trying to fit a square into a circle so you can continue your narrative. That post had nothing to do with the story or the writing at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teats on a King Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 One of the best ep. in the season (although it doesn't mean much), good finale overall, but walk of shame doesn't have the same impact as in the books (Cersei kind of just sobs they whole way through).While the "death" of Stannis sequence makes no sense whatsoever, it would still be a fitting end for him, and was the only surprising event happening.And while the "end" of Lord Snow is neither as intense or as fast paced as in the books, still glad they went through with it, just as glad as they went through with ser Robert Strong.Varys Staying in Meereen was quite the disappointment though. Also: Theon dies as there's barely any snow at the foot of the wall. ALSO also: The sunset didn't find her squatting in the grass... :frown5: All in all, all right. 6 outta 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedViperHD Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Well the logic behind it would be, Sansa really hasn't done a whole lot in the Vale in the books. And for such a major character it doesn't make good television. Now this is just guess work. But they probably know where Sansa ends up and it's likely in the Winterfell area. And rather than have Sansa have only two or three scenes this season, they wanted to get her there faster. So they invented LF using Cersie to get the okay to attack the Vale to get Sansa to the North faster instead of just holding her story off. That way when the Vale comes back into play (likely in the North) Sansa is right there for it. But now she has something to do. And rather than eating lemmon cakes she's in the thick of things, in the middle of a huge war, part of the Bolton's plan to legitimize their claim on Winterfell, and part of Theon's redemption arc (which honestly makes it better for the show because more people associate Sansa and Theon together than they ever would Jeyne). So the benefit of Sansa being their is -she is not put on the back burner in the Vale -she is part of Theon's redemption arc -she has something to do until her book story actually picks up the pace and the can align it better. -she actually gives the Bolton's a lot more weight and credence by marrying Ramsay -she gives Brienne a logical explanation for being at Winterfell when Stannis attacks (because LSH got cut, so naturally Brienne would track Sansa) -It allows for Stannis to die at the hands of Brienne after he loses battle (like the Pink Letter indicates) and he pays for killing Renly, rather than likely dying at the hands of an unnamed soldier or the Boltons, which brings Stannis' story full circle, and doesn't change the greater point of him losing and dying at Winterfell. The unfortunate cost is -the most sensible way to get Sansa there is that Jeyne Poole exists for a purpose that Sansa is the most ideal person that could fulfill that purpose and sadly you have to take the bad with that plot and Sansa gets raped. Though a much tamer version of it. But even that is like you were probably going to get Jeyne Poole anyways because they clearly wanted Theon's redemption to come here. So it was almost a lateral move. The issue that arises is that it was Sansa. Why couldn't she be at Winterfell and not get raped every night? Why couldn't she be at Winterfell only to have the Boltons actually struggle to get the best of her. Why did she have to return to being a damsel in distress? I thought that she was the "new Sansa" starting last season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedViperHD Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 (edited) Another part of my problem with that explanation is that they used Stannis, a character with complexities and depth to advance the "badass-ness" of redundant Brienne who has no arc and no development and exists on the show only to be politically correct. The show claims to be realistic but Brienne and her story was so contrived and convenient and forced and unbelievable this season. I was willing to buy that she defeated the Hound, but now she by way of dumb luck, runs into another great warrior that she was looking to kill. Edited June 16, 2015 by RedViperHD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Why couldn't she be at Winterfell and not get raped every night? Why couldn't she be at Winterfell only to have the Boltons actually struggle to get the best of her. Why did she have to return to being a damsel in distress? I thought that she was the "new Sansa" starting last season? Why couldn't Jeyne Poole not get raped every night? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Another part of my problem with that explanation is that they used Stannis, a character with complexities and depth to advance the "badass-ness" of redundant Brienne who has no arc and no development and exists on the show only to be politically correct. The show claims to be realistic but Brienne and her story was so contrived and convenient and forced and unbelievable this season. I was willing to buy that she defeated the Hound, but now she by way of dumb luck, runs into another great warrior that she was looking to kill. It's not really luck when nearly the entire North, Vale and KL knows Stannis is planning to attack there. She was going after Sansa. She was just lucky that Stannis attacked before Sansa made her bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedViperHD Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Why couldn't Jeyne Poole not get raped every night? Great question. I'd love an answer. It was violence for the sake of violence and pure shock value in both the books and the show. I'm not letting GRRM off the hook here. Poor writing is poor writing. Yet, despite that, Jeyne Poole is not our protagonist that the series has asked us to identify with and care for all throughout it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedViperHD Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 It's not really luck when nearly the entire North, Vale and KL knows Stannis is planning to attack there. She was going after Sansa. She was just lucky that Stannis attacked before Sansa made her bid. Ok then lets look past the luck angle and lets examine Brienne. What is her arc and what is her development as a character? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khal Boner Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 They could have had Roose forbid him from raping her on the wedding night. My point is that they can, and have, done whatever they want with scant regard to the Book version of the character. Just because Sansa married Ramsey doesn't mean the rape has to happen. Why would Roose do that and why would Ramsay listen to him? She was Ramsay's bride and according to in universe values and laws, expected to lose her virginity on her wedding night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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