[Poll] How would you rate episode 510?

[RedViperHD]

It's not really luck when nearly the entire North, Vale and KL knows Stannis is planning to attack there. She was going after Sansa. She was just lucky that Stannis attacked before Sansa made her bid.

Lets also note that she is not real. She is not "lucky." It was written that way.

[lancerman]

Great question. I'd love an answer. It was violence for the sake of violence and pure shock value in both the books and the show. I'm not letting GRRM off the hook here. Poor writing is poor writing.

Yet, despite that, Jeyne Poole is not our protagonist that the series has asked us to identify with and care for all throughout it.

Well I wouldn't say that's poor writing. I would say that's the most likely thing that Ramsay would do if he married them. Which actually is consistent writing. Which would be the real answer to why it's happening in both instances.

GRRM and D&D could have totally contrived a reason not to do that. But it wouldn't be realistic. The whole point of that marriage is to produce an heir and legitimize your hold on Winterfell. It's uncomfortable and both are guilty of not being subtle at all with that. And it probably would have been better to avoid showing or bringing it up and leaving it for the imagination. But

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

Ok then lets look past the luck angle and lets examine Brienne. What is her arc and what is her development as a character?

It's kind of hard to develop when you've spent the entire season waiting outside a castle looking for a candle.

[lancerman]

Lets also note that she is not real. She is not "lucky." It was written that way.

True that to.

But storyline wise the most contrived thing about Brienne was meeting Arya randomly. At least with Sansa, you can rationalize that Brienne would have found out she was in the North at one point whether they met at the tavern or not. Everything else was leading up to what happened.

[lancerman]

Ok then lets look past the luck angle and lets examine Brienne. What is her arc and what is her development as a character?

The last thing she did before leaving KL was getting Oathkeeper and resolving to keep all the oaths she made.

The notable ones were rescuing the Stark girls and avenging Renly. She ran into Arya, who distrusted her and got away. She had the same thing happen with Sansa. But true to her word, she followed her to Winterfell and waited like loyal servant waiting to be called for help. When Stannis finally attacked she went to fulfill that Oath. Thats her arc.

As a character it's more about her resolve and undying pursuit of her goals. Most people would have said what's the sense in waiting for Sansa. But Brienne has to fulfill her oath.

[Alia of the knife]

Call me a butthurt rabid nerd, I shall wear it as a badge of honour. :P

:agree:

[RedViperHD]

The last thing she did before leaving KL was getting Oathkeeper and resolving to keep all the oaths she made.

The notable ones were rescuing the Stark girls and avenging Renly. She ran into Arya, who distrusted her and got away. She had the same thing happen with Sansa. But true to her word, she followed her to Winterfell and waited like loyal servant waiting to be called for help. When Stannis finally attacked she went to fulfill that Oath. Thats her arc.

As a character it's more about her resolve and undying pursuit of her goals. Most people would have said what's the sense in waiting for Sansa. But Brienne has to fulfill her oath.

In comparison to the other characters on this show who have had their families murdered and raped and puppies killed and daughters burned at the stake, Brienne's motivations seem really weak and unbelievable. Other characters that even come as close to being as noble as Brienne then would be Jon Snow and Ned Stark and they are both dead for it. Yet Brienne keeps on beating every great warrior that she encounters.

[RedViperHD]

Well I wouldn't say that's poor writing. I would say that's the most likely thing that Ramsay would do if he married them. Which actually is consistent writing. Which would be the real answer to why it's happening in both instances.

GRRM and D&D could have totally contrived a reason not to do that. But it wouldn't be realistic. The whole point of that marriage is to produce an heir and legitimize your hold on Winterfell. It's uncomfortable and both are guilty of not being subtle at all with that. And it probably would have been better to avoid showing or bringing it up and leaving it for the imagination. But

Yes I understand the reasoning or logic behind what happened during the scene of events that took place during the bad writing. I just don't understand why it had to be written so poorly. I mean, I do, shock value.

Edited June 16, 2015 by RedViperHD

[Alia of the knife]

Well I wouldn't say that's poor writing. I would say that's the most likely thing that Ramsay would do if he married them. Which actually is consistent writing. Which would be the real answer to why it's happening in both instances.

GRRM and D&D could have totally contrived a reason not to do that. But it wouldn't be realistic. The whole point of that marriage is to produce an heir and legitimize your hold on Winterfell. It's uncomfortable and both are guilty of not being subtle at all with that. And it probably would have been better to avoid showing or bringing it up and leaving it for the imagination. But

That is true, and certainly during the Medieval period, alliances were based on family and blood.

HOWEVER, what the book does, and the show does not, is to highlight the fact that in the case of the Boltens, (who were always Stark wannabes), no one outside the Boltens really sees them as their "leaders", as essentially all the Houses follow the Boltens BECAUSE of "fArya" and her last name.

They were fine to unite to fight off the Lannisters and the Iron Born, but now left to themselves, Roose is starting to sweat given his betrayal.

In the case of the North, they will never see anyone but a Stark as their rulers/leaders, so having a baby with a bit of Stark blood is not the same as that baby being a "Stark."

One gets the feeling that in books, if that were really Arya, all she would have to do is crook her finger, and the other House's would turn on the Boltens, so they need for the bride to at least be treated well, and with respect.

And, aren't there a few families in the Vale who also carry Stark blood by marriage? (Where is "Lord Varys")?

[JonCon's Red Beard]

That is true, and certainly during the Medieval period, alliances were based on family and blood.

HOWEVER, what the book does, and the show does not, is to highlight the fact that in the case of the Boltens, (who were always Stark wannabes), no one outside the Boltens really sees them as their "leaders", as essentially all the Houses follow the Boltens BECAUSE of "fArya" and her last name.

They were fine to unite to fight off the Lannisters and the Iron Born, but now left to themselves, Roose is starting to sweat given his betrayal.

In the case of the North, they will never see anyone but a Stark as their rulers/leaders, so having a baby with a bit of Stark blood is not the same as that baby being a "Stark."

One gets the feeling that in books, if that were really Arya, all she would have to do is crook her finger, and the other House's would turn on the Boltens, so they need for the bride to at least be treated well, and with respect.

And, aren't there a few families in the Vale who also carry Stark blood by marriage? (Where is "Lord Varys")?

Cat mentions this to Robb in books, yes.

About the part above, I think Ramsay's case is (or could be) a bit like Sansa's with Tyrion. Just as Robb says she's only useful until she has a male son, Ramsay's is probably no different for the Northerns. "Let's wait the girl has a boy and kill the Boltons. The baby will rule as son of Arya Stark and we will call him that". I doubt in all those years, the Starks have zero Bolton blood already. I'm not saying THIS is the case, but that was also a chance for them.

[Zoe_nwobhm]

Everything was fine, at least compared with my expectations for this episode, until Arya started swiping through faces. The most notable thing about the use of magic from GRRM is how subtle it is... We knew it was face-changing with magic. No need to exaggerate like this. I really enjoyed Cersei's walk of shame.

[The Shadow of the Shadew]

8/10

Walk of Shame was great

FTW was also good, of course the NW are narrow minded considering that most are wankers and rapists who lost their friends fighting the wildlings.

Meereen was meh tbh, I get why Tyrion has to stay but I want to see more than a rehash of Season 2 Kl plot where instead of Stannis we get the harpies and slave army.

Brienne meeting Stannis was good but I feel this isnt the last we see of the two. I hope that next season will focus on the Stormlands as a new POV about the new lord of the Stormlands. Gendry? Edric Storm?

Dorne, I actually liked, nuff said about that.

[Lady Blackmont]

Cersei convinced Joffrey not to abuse Sansa, at least for a time. It's not like Roose can't control Ramsey. Ramsey relies on Roose for legitimacy, he needs to suck up to him. (So long as Roose is alive)

Ramsey would be expected to consummate the marriage, but he doesn't have to RAPE her. Sansa is apparently at Winterfell voluntarily, and she doesn't know, for certain, that Ramsey is evil.

It could be completely consensual in the show. Just have Roose say "I forbid you to rape her, Bastard." And settle it as that.

As someone mentioned, all Jeyne/Sansa have to do is point the finger and there will be two dead Boltons. In the books, many of the lords aren't certain the (F)Arya is really a stark, but they still need the Boltons to finish kicking out the Ironborn. I think they would take exception to a Stark being raped.

[tallTale]

Wow. Most viewed episode ever! Way to go D&D! (8.1 million viewers)

http://www.businessinsider.com/hbo-game-of-thrones-season-5-ratings-2015-6

Edited June 16, 2015 by tallTale

[Lady Blackmont]

Sansa Stark (Sophie Turner) on HBO's"Game of Thrones."

Right below a picture of Arya. :dunce: :crying: :bang:

[Fearodh]

Wow. Most viewed episode ever! Way to go D&D! (8.1 million viewers)

http://www.businessinsider.com/hbo-game-of-thrones-season-5-ratings-2015-6

Thanks for that number, was actually wondering.

Even though the majority of this forum is very critical of the show, it gets in many many viewers. So D&D will probably continue their "successful" path.

I kinda hope though they learn a lesson or two from Dorne...

[Metopheles]

Sidequestion that tormented me for a long time now,

how did Weiss get that job? Why was he allowed to do this?

They say this series is the hardest thing to make into television and it is a huge and important modern book series.

So why did he get green light? He never did anything before that. Never directed something, nor produced anything and most importantly, never wrote anything for anything. No book. No short story. No screenplay.

Bennioff did. Kinda mediocre, but Troy was a success and good film in its own, without regard to historical inaccuracies. Stay is not bad either.

But Weiss did nothing before.

Who would trust in someone with no references? Especially such a huge and difficult project?

[Lady Blackmont]

Why George did it? Boatloads of cash.

Why HBO allowed it? FIIK.

[Metopheles]

Why George did it? Boatloads of cash.

Why HBO allowed it? FIIK.

I wanna be pope!

Do you know anything about religion, people, Christianity and politics?

Christianity is the one with Jesus, right?

*white smoke*

^must have been like that..

[JSPR_G]

Sidequestion that tormented me for a long time now,

how did Weiss get that job? Why was he allowed to do this?

They say this series is the hardest thing to make into television and it is a huge and important modern book series.

So why did he get green light? He never did anything before that. Never directed something, nor produced anything and most importantly, never wrote anything for anything. No book. No short story. No screenplay.

Bennioff did. Kinda mediocre, but Troy was a success and good film in its own, without regard to historical inaccuracies. Stay is not bad either.

But Weiss did nothing before.

Who would trust in someone with no references? Especially such a huge and difficult project?

I read Benioff's City of Thieves. Amazing book. I really recommend it! So I don't doubt he has enough talent for GoT.

But yeah, Weiss, I don't know.. He hasn't done anything before Game of Thrones to prove his worth... For a project like this you'd expect somebody with more experience.

But, I love S01-S04 and really like most of S05 (just like I loved agot, acok & asos more than affc and adwd). Still, it shows that leaving the books behind leads to inferior dialogues.. But I still believe this show will have the most epic ending television has ever seen.