Lady Blackmont Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I completely agree that sending Sansa away from the Vale was a good move, there is enough sitting around elsewhere. But the way it was handled, both traveling and actions when there, was atrocious. A Stark in Winterfell has great potential, but her presence there was out of place, and they didn't make enough changes elsewhere to compensate. It's comparable to Brienne and Jaime in KL before the purple wedding, a nice move, but I don't think they considered the complete picture. There are a host of alterations that must be made in order to bring in new material and keep some of the original things. This is the primary reason why I think they should just write their own work, instead of using book scenes in illogical situations. Using the Shae-Tyrion-Tywin arc as an example, they could have done so many things with the ending, but they decided to stick more or less with book material. I think it would have been a better arc for each of them if they had just written it originally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolorous Gabe Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I completely agree that sending Sansa away from the Vale was a good move, there is enough sitting around elsewhere. But the way it was handled, both traveling and actions when there, was atrocious. A Stark in Winterfell has great potential, but her presence there was out of place, and they didn't make enough changes elsewhere to compensate. It's comparable to Brienne and Jaime in KL before the purple wedding, a nice move, but I don't think they considered the complete picture. There are a host of alterations that must be made in order to bring in new material and keep some of the original things. This is the primary reason why I think they should just write their own work, instead of using book scenes in illogical situations. Using the Shae-Tyrion-Tywin arc as an example, they could have done so many things with the ending, but they decided to stick more or less with book material. I think it would have been a better arc for each of them if they had just written it originally. I still think that introducing the Manderlys this season could have worked if they'd focussed the Northern story specifically at White Harbor. They could have had a few factions do what Davos does in the books and look to gain their support, and this could have included LF and Sansa. You could have had Davos, Ramsay and/or Roose, LF and Sansa and some Freys all be at WH for varying reasons. That could have had a very tense and interesting plot and would be streamlined so as not to have too many locations and characters in different places. It could have concluded around the end of episode 7 at which point Roose/Ramsay could have learned that Stannis was marching for WF, an actual plot to retake Winterfell could have been formed amongst Sansa, LF and Manderly and could have involved faking their allegiance to the Boltons against Stannis, and the political intrigue of the North would be better established. I'd have preferred that to the Ramsay show of Winterfell that we got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spilt Pea Soup Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Manderlys would have been awesome. Show is suffering from lack of supporting cast, in the form of bannermen that existed earlier in show. (Karstarks, Umbers, etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blackmont Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I'm glad we're finding some common ground here. :cheers:The build up in the North was definitely my favorite part of the books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tagganaro Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 To me, the biggest mistake the show made this season, and probably its history, was omitting the Manderleys. I mean, I don't see how that got cut. In a season full of gloom and doom, Manderley's "the North remembers" speech is one of the few triumphant positive moments. It would have been very memorable. Not to mention freaking Frey Pie, another one of those triumphant moments. I really don't get how this show had time for Dorne, Grey Worm/Missandei, Meryn Trant's "too young", and several other nonsensical go-nowhere sideplots while it couldn't find time for Manderley. I think it could have been a brilliant move to transpose "Alayne's" story in the Eyrie to Sansa in Winterfell, having Sansa "play the game" with Northern lords such as Manderley and Dustin. You could also use that to cut out the rape, as the show hinted that Roose was pressuring Ramsay to rein in his behavior, and certainly having Sansa and the whole "Northern conspiracy" watching Sansa's treatment carefully would provide justification for that. But yeah...D & D needed a shocking moment so they just decided that Jeyne Poole's story was more important to tell than Sansa/Alayne's. Just really an awful disgusting decision on their parts imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blackmont Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 We're getting the Umbers next year it seems. So the North will be getting some non-Bolton representation. Maybe they can explain how Ramsay pulled the army out of his ass too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spilt Pea Soup Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 The sellsworfs defected. Pretty sure that's what happened. Frey pies would be awesome. Still have to have north do *something* next before shit hits fan in season 7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facebookless Man Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) D&D have written very good scenes in the past.I'm surprised some people would go into such depths to analyze every word and say "Aha..see? A flawThe chaos ladder sounded very well on TV especially showing sansa. It gave us a clue on LF's plan and his method of working.THAT IS ALL THAT FUCKING MATTERSYou need not over analyze it since TV is a visual medium and dialogues only support itI know it doesn't matter and I did say it's not a bad thing per se. It's typical over-the-top villain dialogue. I really don't need to overanalyse it tho, I identify it for what it is as it is being uttered. Brilliant writing, though, it is not. Edited June 19, 2015 by Facebookless Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolorous Gabe Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I know it doesn't matter and I did say it's not a bad thing per se. It's typical over-the-top villain dialogue. I really don't need to overanalyse it tho, I identify it for what it is as it is being uttered.Brilliant writing, though, it is not. I don't see how the comparison works either. Chaos isn't really a ladder because chaos cannot be that structured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I love Cersei Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Statistics without elimination of outliers. Data from 06/19/2015 18:48. Episode 501 - The Wars to Come Number of votes: 592 Median: 7 Arithmetic mean: 6.853 Standard deviation: 1.898 Episode 502 - The House of Black and White Number of votes: 466 Median: 8 Arithmetic mean: 7.030 Standard deviation: 2.012 Episode 503 - High Sparrow Number of votes: 444 Median: 8 Arithmetic mean: 7.414 Standard deviation: 2.255 Episode 504 - The Sons of the Harpy Number of votes: 486 Median: 8 Arithmetic mean: 6.874 Standard deviation: 2.459 Episode 505 - Kill the Boy Number of votes: 549 Median: 8 Arithmetic mean: 7.164 Standard deviation: 2.326 Episode 506 - Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken Number of votes: 753 Median: 6 Arithmetic mean: 5.417 Standard deviation: 2.961 Episode 507 - The Gift Number of votes: 634 Median: 8 Arithmetic mean: 7.582 Standard deviation: 2.158 Episode 508 - Hardhome Number of votes: 958 Median: 10 Arithmetic mean: 9.048 Standard deviation: 1.751 Episode 509 - The Dance of Dragons Number of votes: 954 Median: 7 Arithmetic mean: 6.107 Standard deviation: 3.042 Episode 510 - Mother's Mercy Number of votes: 1071 Median: 7 Arithmetic mean: 6.108 Standard deviation: 3.258 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metopheles Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Actually the viewer numbers are pretty low for a global success show, aren't they? 8million at peak?Mord mit Aussicht, a German show that only airs in Germany and Austria has a viewership of 7million.Tatort, another German crime series that is ancient by now, has viewer numbers from 7 to 13 million. Game Of Thrones is by no means the most successful or most viewed show. It is the loudest and part of the Zeitgeist, but that's about it. Not bitching, just putting things in relation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) Actually the viewer numbers are pretty low for a global success show, aren't they? 8million at peak? Mord mit Aussicht, a German show that only airs in Germany and Austria has a viewership of 7million. Tatort, another German crime series that is ancient by now, has viewer numbers from 7 to 13 million. Game Of Thrones is by no means the most successful or most viewed show. It is the loudest and part of the Zeitgeist, but that's about it. Not bitching, just putting things in relation. You have to pay to get HBO to watch Game of Thrones. Also not all of HBO's subscribers watch it the night of because HBO airs it during the week regularly, they have it on most cable on demand services, they have it on HBO Go and HBO now. Also because it is on a pay station it has a huge piracy issue that other network shows don't have. So really what you are looking at is The 8 million that watch the night of, plus the viewers that catch it later in the week, plus the viewers that watch it On Demand/HBO GO/HBO NOW, and then for total viewership (not anything that benefits HBO) you might also look at the piracy viewers who make it the most pirated show in the world. Just an example. The first season had an average of 2.5 million viewers the night of. Then it averaged 9.5 million during the entire week with repeats and on demand viewing. And that was before HBO Now. Season 4's average of total viewership for the week was 18.6 million which broke the record from the Sopranos. This season will probably break that. And because HBO doesn't play to advertisers, first airing viewings don't matter as much. That's not counting how many people pirate it. Which is substantial since it's the most pirated show in the world. The last episode just broke the illegal download record and was projected to be illegally downloaded over 10 million times in a few days. Edited June 20, 2015 by lancerman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeParking Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 We're getting the Umbers next year it seems. So the North will be getting some non-Bolton representation. Maybe they can explain how Ramsay pulled the army out of his ass too. The sellsworfs defected. Pretty sure that's what happened. Frey pies would be awesome. Still have to have north do *something* next before shit hits fan in season 7. Please rewatch episode 408. The Boltons have a good sized army. That had already been established. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spilt Pea Soup Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) You have to pay to get HBO to watch Game of Thrones. Also not all of HBO's subscribers watch it the night of because HBO airs it during the week regularly, they have it on most cable on demand services, they have it on HBO Go and HBO now. Also because it is on a pay station it has a huge piracy issue that other network shows don't have. So really what you are looking at is The 8 million that watch the night of, plus the viewers that catch it later in the week, plus the viewers that watch it On Demand/HBO GO/HBO NOW, and then for total viewership (not anything that benefits HBO) you might also look at the piracy viewers who make it the most pirated show in the world. Just an example. The first season had an average of 2.5 million viewers the night of. Then it averaged 9.5 million during the entire week with repeats and on demand viewing. And that was before HBO Now. Season 4's average of total viewership for the week was 18.6 million which broke the record from the Sopranos. This season will probably break that. And because HBO doesn't play to advertisers, first airing viewings don't matter as much. That's not counting how many people pirate it. Which is substantial since it's the most pirated show in the world. The last episode just broke the illegal download record and was projected to be illegally downloaded over 10 million times in a few days.Might as well argue about the color of the sky.It is literally the highest rating of any cable show ever. Edited June 20, 2015 by Spilt Pea Soup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) She had no agency whatsoever. It's not like anyone (Varys maybe?) would be willing to send her across the narrow sea. She was Tyrion's prisoner and victim. For sure. Within that scene she had no agency. Of course, she declined going overseas because she loved Tyrion (why, I don't fucking know?). Then Tyrion dumped her and she got the shits on - hell has no fury and all that. Then Tyrion was locked up and she thought she make some money on the side with Tywin. Then Tyrion got away and when she saw the look on his face, after just waking up and being disorientated, she was scared because Tyrion was furious. She had less agency than Tyrion in that scene - regardless of what had gone before. Jeez. Stannis has no agency now (I think he's still alive, in show) and he had heaps before - doesn't mean he cant still interact with the plot. Agency is dependent on the character and the situation. Edited June 20, 2015 by ummester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robasp2 Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Actually the viewer numbers are pretty low for a global success show, aren't they? 8million at peak?Mord mit Aussicht, a German show that only airs in Germany and Austria has a viewership of 7million.Tatort, another German crime series that is ancient by now, has viewer numbers from 7 to 13 million. Game Of Thrones is by no means the most successful or most viewed show. It is the loudest and part of the Zeitgeist, but that's about it. Not bitching, just putting things in relation.In my city, the internet is down on monday morning.Extreme traffic for GoT download.Need I say more?It is the frikkin highest viewed show ever. I assume you are angry with the story and decided to make fun of the viewership. But none of your "stupid" shows ever makes its way to 193 countries and has 32000 seeds for torrent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Actually the viewer numbers are pretty low for a global success show, aren't they? 8million at peak? Mord mit Aussicht, a German show that only airs in Germany and Austria has a viewership of 7million. Tatort, another German crime series that is ancient by now, has viewer numbers from 7 to 13 million. Game Of Thrones is by no means the most successful or most viewed show. It is the loudest and part of the Zeitgeist, but that's about it. Not bitching, just putting things in relation. I think the numbers are fine for a cable network. Around 2012-2013 Glee and GoT had pretty much the same numbers and Glee was going down in ratings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetyrPunkinhead Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) 9/10 I have not read book 5 yet so Jon's death(?) was an absolute shock to me. Fucking Olly, man. Also everything with Arya and Stannis was cray. Total cray. Edited June 20, 2015 by PetyrPunkinhead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metopheles Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 I think the numbers are fine for a cable network. Around 2012-2013 Glee and GoT had pretty much the same numbers and Glee was going down in ratings. It's just a late response to one of the show extremists on here that preached that this show was the biggest and best thing to ever happen to this planet, when in reality it is just a loud fandom of a normal series with normal viewership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 It's just a late response to one of the show extremists on here that preached that this show was the biggest and best thing to ever happen to this planet, when in reality it is just a loud fandom of a normal series with normal viewership. Don't know about biggest and best thing - but I think GoTs has manged to break through the just a show into cultural phenomenon status, more than any other adult rated TV show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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