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[Poll] How would you rate episode 510?

How would you rate episode 510?  

1,157 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

    • 1
      189
    • 2
      58
    • 3
      75
    • 4
      53
    • 5
      79
    • 6
      68
    • 7
      98
    • 8
      161
    • 9
      170
    • 10
      203


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But YOU are the one who's being arrogant in your opinion. You liked the episode? Fine. Some tv critics liked it? Swell. I, and MANY OTHERS on this site have expressed our dislike. According to you, we are all "overinvested emotionally immature fans who can't cope with artistic re-interpretation." That seems pretty arrogant and obnoxious to me. Go like what you like. Don't presume your opinion has any more validity than mine.

And stop posting too.

But the only thing show apologists can say (over and over) is 'those who don't like the show are a bunch of butthurt rabid nerds who don't like the changes D&D made'. Their argument is, 'people who don't like the show should leave forever and never post again [because I can't come up with a proper argument to counter theirs.

It's quite entertaining actually.

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I keep wondering whether HBO is hiring people to come on here as show apologists. What do you get paid? Where can I sign up?

YES

HBO paid 578 people about 60% of the voters to come to a very hardcore site of people that are going to watch anyways. Just like they paid all those millions of people on twitter and facebook that were raving about the show yesterday and the day before. And they also paid prominent entertainment sites to give the episode glowing reviews.

Only the minority of people on this site that spend all their time complaining and hate watching a show have any real grasp of quality and writing. Everyone else is wrong. Only this tiny niche subset of book readers are right.

.

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YES

HBO paid 578 people about 60% of the voters to come to a very hardcore site of people that are going to watch anyways. Just like they paid all those millions of people on twitter and facebook that were raving about the show yesterday and the day before. And they also paid prominent entertainment sites to give the episode glowing reviews.

Only the minority of people on this site that spend all their time complaining and hate watching a show have any real grasp of quality and writing. Everyone else is wrong. Only this tiny niche subset of book readers are right.

.

So your argument in regards to the lack of character depth and story arcs is basically, strength in numbers? American Idol had amazing ratings too. Doesn't mean it was quality programming.

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Seriously though, don't come on Westeros and shit on the books. You will not get a very friendly response.

Yet you go in the show section and shit on the show. If people went in the books section and shit on GRRM for anything they way the insane fringe freaks out on anything D&D do that they don't like, it would not be nearly as accepted.

And I love the books. I'm just not a blind fanboy who thinks it's heresy to critique them or even, gasp, give a favorable comparison to the show.

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So your argument in regards to the lack of character depth and story arcs is basically, strength in numbers? American Idol had amazing ratings too. Doesn't mean it was quality programming.

No my argument is that when you really push the critics on why they don't like something and force them to explain it, and then respond to everything they say, the more you do it the more it becomes clear that their real critique is "I just like the way the books did it better".

It's blatant fanboyism.

And it's highly arrogant to say "oh you're using the strength in numbers argument" when you guys use the "everybody else is just a lowest common denominator pleb who likes boobs and blood, we are the really smart ones right". It's kind of pathetic.

And it's not everyone. There are some people who don't like the show that are actually reasonable. I don't think everything's perfect either. But it's pretty clear that a huge chunk of that populace is just mad that things are different from the book now and were never going to be happy.

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8.1 millions... Yep, it seems pretty clear that people are losing interest, because... Oh, wait...

They're not. The show was losing viewers for most of the season.

People like: controversy, battles and dragons. The show began to regain viewers after the Sansa controversy and Hardhome and the pit brought them back so the finale is the most watched show ever.

Bad pussy for the win.

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"The scene in which Jaime Lannister was finally able to confess his paternity to Myrcella was downright touching"

-andy greenwald, grantland

"The mutiny against Jon Snow isn't meant only level to be satisfying to the audience — Jon is among the show's purest heroes, after all — yet it's not hard to understand why Alliser, Olly, and the others think he deserves it."

-alan sepinwall, hitfix

" In a beautiful overhead shot, we see the Bolton forces closing in on the ranks Stannis has just ordered to dig in for a siege" - Alyssa Rosenberg, washington post

"this season was as good as any in the show’s historic run, and the finale capped that off on an extraordinary high note." - brian lowry, variety

i love the juxtaposition of this board and these reviews.

LOL

I gave it a ten and I am proud of it ;)

I might have given the episode a nine because there was one or two cliffhangers too much for my taste but I am quite sure that the showmakers agreed with Martin to let him write his story without having it spoiled.

Actually the series might have been even better in itself if the show had cared less about giving Martin the time he needs.

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Hahahahah, yeah, I know, I don't feel sad because all the interesting characters are gone. I feel more sad because I know that a slow death is to come. There were too many moments last night where I should have cried or screamed but instead, I just didn't care or I laughed or I rolled my eyes or I did a face palm. To me, "You wanted a good girl, but you NEED a bad pussy" = Jumping the Shark. I just don't know if there is any coming back from that. That line may have single handedly killed the show. For those who are unfamiliar with the term, Jumping the Shark, refers to the moment in any show that happens that is so ridiculous, unbelievablee, or stupid that the show cannont possibly recover from its mistake. It's from the show Happy Days. This video is a good explanation of it : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzes11yUR-E. And I feel like GOT came dangerously close to that point several times last night.

I basically gave it a low rating to reflect the whole season, but I completely agree, and I think you've covered a lot of the points of why people didn't like it.

Conversely, I like "Walking Dead" the show better than the graphic novels, deviations and all. :dunno: I don't judge people who think otherwise, but on those forums, the character deviations are not the point of contention during those debates, and it might be because Robert Kirkman is still very much involved in the process.

For me, its not about "being right" about a pet theory, or "being wrong" about a theory. As I said upthread, its all in good fun to see what I'll end up being right about, or wrong about, (though I am rather proud that I called it on Lady O being the one dumped by her Targaryen prince, and not the other way around as she claimed. Like Tywin, she flew high and was laid low, so it explains her own scheming and why the Tyrells are Lannister payback, BUT no better).

Its about the "grayness" and the "conflicts of the heart," "what we do for love," and "kill boy, let the man be born." Those themes of struggle between what one wants in contrast to duty. There are some elements of that in the adaptation, but it gets lost in the "shock and awe," falling flat.

"Blade Runner" another one that could have been a disaster if not for pieces like this and in the wrong hands.

" I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die." -Roy Batty.

I do take my liesure time personally as I don't have a lot of it, and the time that I invest in a work is actually precious to me. The last time I invested this much of my time was reading all of Frank Herberts works, the "Dune" novels, works that have also faltered on the rocks of T.V. and cinema in the wrong hands.

That said, I am off from work today, so because of you, I'm going to watch "you know what." :P, ("Its better to burn out than fade away").

"Shame, (slap), shame,(slap), shame, (slap), shame.....................

Edited by Alia of the knife

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No my argument is that when you really push the critics on why they don't like something and force them to explain it, and then respond to everything they say, the more you do it the more it becomes clear that their real critique is "I just like the way the books did it better".

It's blatant fanboyism.

And it's highly arrogant to say "oh you're using the strength in numbers argument" when you guys use the "everybody else is just a lowest common denominator pleb who likes boobs and blood, we are the really smart ones right". It's kind of pathetic.

And it's not everyone. There are some people who don't like the show that are actually reasonable. I don't think everything's perfect either. But it's pretty clear that a huge chunk of that populace is just mad that things are different from the book now and were never going to be happy.

But why do you try and paint me in a corner as someone who just wants the show to be like the books. That is what is so irritating about your opinion. I've only read 1 1/2 of the books and I didn't love the writing. I came to Game of Thrones via the show and I was ok with Ned being killed, the red wedding, and Oberyn being killed. I thought those all added something to the story, but I don't see how raping Sansa every night and having Brienne magically appear in the right spot time and time again added or subtracted anything to the show.

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Many of the critics have never read the books, they are basing their opinion of the show only on what they have seen and compare it to other shows.


Don't get me wrong, GoT is an awesome show. If I had never read the books I would probably think it was great television.


But the truth is that it doesn't hold a candle to ASOIAF. If you have read the books and think that the show is a faithful and worthy adaption, I seriously question your honesty.


Edited by Lady Blackmont

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But why do you try and paint me in a corner as someone who just wants the show to be like the books. That is what is so irritating about your opinion. I've only read 1 1/2 of the books and I didn't love the writing. I came to Game of Thrones via the show and I was ok with Ned being killed, the red wedding, and Oberyn being killed. I thought those all added something to the story, but I don't see how raping Sansa every night and having Brienne magically appear in the right spot time and time again added or subtracted anything to the show.

Finally, I studied film in college. Not literature. I think the show is becoming worse as a viewer, not a reader.

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They're not. The show was losing viewers for most of the season.

People like: controversy, battles and dragons. The show began to regain viewers after the Sansa controversy and Hardhome and the pit brought them back so the finale is the most watched show ever.

Bad pussy for the win.

Not true. The Sunday night live numbers were down but HBO was reporting at midseason that their overall numbes were up when you include all platforms.

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Many of the critics have never read the books, they are basing their opinion of the show only on what they have seen and compare it to other shows.

Don't get me wrong, GoT is an awesome show. If I had never read the books I would probably think it was great television.

But the truth is that it doesn't hold a candle to ASOIAF. If you have read the books and think that the show is a faithful and worthy adaption, I seriously question you honesty.

You see, and I am naturally opposed to that opinion because in my opinion, that is insulting to the medium of film. But I do agree with you that the show has declined. Not because it's not faithful to the books but because there was just a lot of bad writing and development and even a lot of bad filmmaking this season.

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Not true. The Sunday night live numbers were down but HBO was reporting at midseason that their overall numbes were up when you include all platforms.

I am only counting the live numbers, the overall number is misleading because I believe they opened up new markets, but either way, it doesn't matter, Dan and Dave for the win. Their approach of "wow" worked.

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I voted 5 which was my lowest for this season, and I think any episode so far. 5 was perhaps a bit generous, I may go lower on rewatch. My thoughts on this episode and this season, though I'm sure many of them have been echoed in one of these 30 pages:



1) Jon Snow's "death" is too simplified. There is no reason to cut out him wanting to go south and interfere with Westerosi politics. It takes virtually no time to execute and overall paints a much more nuanced and complex picture of why Jon would be betrayed. In fact it raises the question, at least, if the brother of the NW were justified as opposed to being treacherous assholes. The writing of that scene in the books is easy to pull off, there is no budget or time constraint to prevent making that a powerful and thought-provoking moment. I honestly can't believe how bad they executed it. They didn't need to have Wun Wun go crazy and chaos in CB, they could've kept the same effect and reasoning with a couple of lines of dialogue. For the biggest moment in the season they lazily rushed it as if they didn't have enough time to do it properly - IT'S ONE OF THE BIGGEST SCENES OF THE SEASON!



2) Arya's part was ok. We really didn't need Meryn being even more of an asshole but at least it didn't take that long. I don't have too much to complain about but I was confused as hell when she starts ripping off multiple faces and then sees her own. I honestly have no idea what was happening there. Perhaps someone can explain that to me.



3) Dorne was a colossal failure. Doran had virtually no reason for existing. What was the point of his scenes with Ellaria if she was going to poison Myrcella anyways? Doran will find out and will kill her as he promised. What a stupid plot. Jaime has no personal development at all and looked incredibly useless all year. What was the point of his S3 and S4 arcs? They completely went to waste. Bad pussy? That made it into the script? I would've refused to film that line. All in all the whole sub plot made no sense. We wasted all of that time so Myrcella just gets killed in the end for a sappy moment where she's perfectly fine with being lied to her whole life about her father? Ludicrous.



4) Sansa and WF was...I'm not even sure how to react to it. I liked the idea of using Real Sansa instead of Jeyne for the show's purposes. It had a lot of potential, actually. In the end I don't know what to make of how it played out. The only person who really did any development as a character was Reek, and even then it was quick. Sansa is in the same exact spot she was before the season started. I would have overlooked LF's inherently stupid decision to leave his prized possession had they made the WF/Sansa plot interesting. There was nothing interesting about it in retrospect. How about showing 1 or 2 scenes where Sansa actually does something noteworthy? Maybe she outsmarts Ramsay or Roose, or garners support from the common northerners? What was the whole point of "You have friends here, the North remembers?" Who remembers? Who the fuck is she talking about? As far as we know the only people who rememebered anything was herself and Brienne who isn't even from the North. They planted that scene in the first or second episode for what reason? Why is there no mention of any of these Northern houses who oppose the Bolton rule and would be glad to help Sansa? You don't have to show them all but at least mention them.



5) What happened to the Karstarks? The Umbers? You've mentioned White Harbor but who the fuck rules there and what are they doing? What happened to the Freys? What happened to Edmure? What about the Blackfish? How can you leave these things unresolved for years? Why is it more important to show Oberyn's daughters than it is to tie off the loose ends you've created, if even just with a couple lines of dialogue ("Oh the Freys are coming to see Sansa Stark wed" -- You don't even have to show us them, just let us know you didn't forget they exist)? Why would you tell us the Boltons are in a precarious situation without setting that scene? It seems Roose is in complete control and is unstoppable despite betraying his liege and murdering thousands of Northern men, kin to the many houses surrounding Winterfell.



6) Why is Miranda even a character? She served absolutely NO purpose...She instigates Sansa a couple times which was pointless and then Theon just tosses her to her death. Why did Miranda even matter there? It could've been anyone, even a Bolton guard come to capture Sansa and it would have the same effect.



7) Cersei's Walk was quite good. Well done on that account at least.



8) Mereen was...Eh. Not terrible. Varys coming out of nowhere felt like the cherry on top of the lazy writing cake Benioff and Weiss made.



Anyone who recognizes me from this board knows I typically defend most of the show's decisions and generally enjoy watching it. I am done defending it. They really fucked up this season apart from EP7 and 8. I will continue to watch it but I no longer take it seriously. In fact I'll be watching it to laugh at how far they've fallen with regards to their writing, decision making, and execution of virtually everything. These guys dump all their time and money into one episode a year and then let the other 9 be huge disappointments.



I have no factual basis for this claim, but I get a strong feeling that they're done with the show. It's exhausted them and they're mailing it in at this point. They wanted to get to the RW (As Benioff stated multiple times) and now they're just seeing it through until its over. They want to move onto other things and don't have the energy and passion to continue making the show worthwhile - perhaps they underestimated how difficult and consuming it would be to pull this off. You can feel it in the writing, the cuts they make, the merger of characters. They no longer want a challenge and are just making it as easy as they can for themselves each year. The show is an opportunity to make big controversial scenes rather than continue a terrific story. It has become more and more apparent that if they're not borrowing directly for GRRM than they no longer have what it takes to write good scenes. This show is now being entirely carried by the actors and the basis of the story GRRM set. Everything Benioff and Weiss do independently now is a failure, despite Hardhome which is an example of them actually trying to make something worthwhile. It's not a failure in the sense that the show is still hugely popular and people keep tuning in - it's a failure in the sense that they have such a strong foundation to work with and yet choose to dismantle it for no reason other than they don't want to bother themselves with difficult details anymore.



Sorry for the rambling post. It just sucks after years of trying to defend these guys to see them really just drop the ball and take the easy ways out.


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For me, its not about "being right" about a pet theory, or "being wrong" about a theory. As I said upthread, its all in good fun to see what I'll end up being right about, or wrong about, (though I am rather proud that I called it on Lady O being the one dumped by her Targaryen prince, and not the other way around as she claimed. Like Tywin, she flew high and was laid low, so it explains her own scheming and why the Tyrells are Lannister payback, BUT no better).

Its about the "grayness" and the "conflicts of the heart," "what we do for love," and "kill boy, let the man be born." Those themes of struggle between what one wants in contrast to duty. There are some elements of that in the adaptation, but it gets lost in the "shock and awe," falling flat.

"Blade Runner" another one that could have been a disaster if not for pieces like this and in the wrong hands.

" I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die." -Roy Batty.

Exactly, my critique of the show has nothing to do with the books. I've invested a lot in the show, and I hate to see it continue on with some of the things that went on this season like the Sand Snakes and more Ramsay being Ramsay and more Brienne overcoming everything. On a sidenote, I studied Cinematography in college and I've seen Bladerunner about 100 times. Amazing cinematography, I have hope for this sequel to Bladerunner with Ryan Gosling is as awesome as the original but it will have to live up to an absolute masterpiece of cinematography.

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I honestly don't care that Brienne went to Winterfell, or that Jaime went to Dorne, or Sansa at Winterfell, or Tyrion in Meereen.


I DO object to the way they handled the storylines when they got there. Why I bring the books into this is because apologists constantly spew "Source material sucked, show is only bad cuz GRRM can't write." If the show is willing to make such huge alterations, why can't they do something with them? They could have improved the things that many people complain about, but instead we get a ridiculous illogical plot that simply makes it worse. The show isn't bad because of the source material, it's awful because the deviations from the source material didn't improve anything.


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