Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Ran

[Poll] How would you rate episode 510?

How would you rate episode 510?  

1,157 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

    • 1
      189
    • 2
      58
    • 3
      75
    • 4
      53
    • 5
      79
    • 6
      68
    • 7
      98
    • 8
      161
    • 9
      170
    • 10
      203


Recommended Posts

Back when Season 1 was in production, D&D found themselves short in terms of run-time. It was a low-budget operation back then, so they added a lot of scenes of just two or three characters talking in one room as a way to pad their show. Originally, these scenes were thought of as the shining stars of the series (Varys vs. Littlefinger being almost like a spy vs. spy). Then they turned into…


Varys: I did what I did for the good of the realm.
Yes, good. This is in keeping with what we know of Varys’s characterizations in the book. Except for the part where he’s confronting Littlefinger (LF) but w/e.

Baelish: The realm. Do you know what the realm is? It’s the thousand blades of Aegon’s enemies- a story we agree to tell each other over and over, until we forget that it’s a lie.
What? LF has always kind of worked within the system and played the political game for his own long-term strategy. Is more opportunistic than nihilistic, but maybe okay, it’s just his way of being like “I’m so above the game the high lords play.” Let’s see where this goes:

Varys: But what do we have left, once we abandon the lie? Chaos? A gaping pit waiting to swallow us all.
Well Varys and Illyrio are actively working to create chaos within the realm so that it is ripe for the taking, but because they have a plan in mind Varys might be inclined to view chaos in and of itself as a negative? Maybe?
image
Baelish: Chaos isn’t a pit. Chaos is a ladder.
Yes, that’s what we just said–both Varys and LF need the realm fucked up

“Many who try to climb it fail, and never get to try again.”
Um. Because they die trying to turn political strife into opportunity? Okay, we guess that’s a thing.

“The fall breaks them.”
Oh they’re not dead? Or they’re just done trying to make sense of it? Only some can handle “the climb” aka political machinations that thrive on chaos and despair?

“And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse.”
Sure. Some people don’t like to be opportunistic dicks or in politics at all (see Aemon). Boy it would be great if we had some imagery of people climbing. Is anyone CLIMBING something this episode? Let’s pan to them. It’d be so thematically awesome and not ham-fisted.
image
“They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions.”
Tricks are something a whore does for money. No seriously, people who don’t want to have chaos in the realm because of suffering of others are clinging to illusions? Love is an illusion to LF despite the fact that it’s still blinding him to true “success” in his plot? Actually isn’t that the one thing that we can say for a certainty about LF: his love for Cat?

“Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.”
But that’s only if you abandon the “lie” of the realm, which you haven’t, and no. Seriously what the fuck is this supposed to be saying? Isn’t the idea that you’re trying to end up on the top of all of this in the end??

We don’t understand why anyone likes this speech. In our opinion, it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

From Gotgifsandmusings. Because I don't need to explain it again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I gave a 8/10. It was a pretty good episode but I was dissapointed with a few things. There was not enough Tyrion obviously. ^_^ While I didn't like Stannis and I am qute happy he's (probably) dead, I am dissapointed that we didn't see the actual battle. The FTW was sadly underwhelming and so was Sansa escaping. I thought she was finally going to take a stand, I guess she needed Theon for that. The walk of shame was quite boring to watch as was the reveal of the new Kingsguard.

I have to admit that I missed a few things, the Bastard Letter for example and Kevan getting killed.

When it comes down to it not so bad but certainly not the best season finale we've had.

The most annoying thing for me about the battle was ramsay, i thought the depiction of overwhelming forces closing in was ...ok (although where the heck did they get tonnes of knights from). Ramsay is...cartoon like for me right now though. And we havent seen the hostility of the north to the boltons depicted at all?

I think they have squandered sansas arc, i previously had a feeling she would 'grow'... and now she is permanently stuck in the role of helpless victim?

Killing kevan would NOT have affected show watchers in the slightest, most show watchers would barely know who he is, heck i had to explain to my OH why trant was on aryas list....as it had been a while, kevan has had almost no screen time

FTW.....i didnt like how they made thorne a more complex character, then ripped that up, but hey ho but apart from that it was ok

Walk of shame, i felt was well done, but a bit long as so much to cover!.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did anyone else notice Jon's eyes shifted color a bit during that slow zoom in? Or was I seeing things?

Imagining.....In went back and looked, hoping u were right!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Imagining.....In went back and looked, hoping u were right!

If you look, they did do some CG effects on his eyes in that final scene, but the reason why was much more mundane:

His pupils were dilating, showing that he was well and truly dead.

Yes, that makes it looks like his eyes are changing color (much like David Bowie), but it's a normal part of death. I thought it was a very subtle and nice touch, although probably unnecessary.

Edited by Aegonzo The Great

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A 5/10 and I'm being generous because I was laughing and giggling most of the time. As a parody that contained most of what book snobs predicted would happen, happened it was really entertaining. When Jon said Olly's name or when the slayers' crowd parted to allow Olly the All-Important to come forward to give the unkindest cut of all... roflmao.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

WoS was meh, the show could have done more with those 14 minutes. Why did we need full frontal nudity? They could have given us headshots, but no, the audience likes their titties. A ten minute walk would have been fine, and then they could have given us moe build up for FTW. Or, I don't know, a median scene with swords clashing during the battle on the ice.

As for book readers being offended because the show has caught up... Really? Do people actually think readers care? We knew this was coming a long time ago. And please stop suggesting that we mind about the changes the writers have made. Nobody is expecting a good adaption now, and deviations are not the foremost issue on anyone's mind.

And Unsullied really need to stop commenting on the quality of books four and five, don't regurgitate what other people have said. If you want to judge them, read them.

-End rant

Lady Blackmont repeating the troll line that if you don't like books 4-5, you must not have read them. So tiring. Are you unable to come to terms with other people's opinion? Even when it's the majority opinion ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

D&D can write, just not their own material.

When they do, we get things like;

Chaos is a ladder

Smash da beetles

Sand Snake patty cake

And, "you need a bad pussy."

They do very well with book material though.

Smash the beetles was amazing. So was chaos as a ladder.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Reading comprehension fail, I am refering only to the group that have not read the books. Not that anyone who doesn't like them hasn't read them.



I do not think that anyone here is being dishonest, and many here who do not like them have previously claimed to have read the books.


Edited by Lady Blackmont

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The forum isn't exactly plagued with unsullied dumping on A Sleep with Crows and A Drag of Dragons. You've lobbed this argument plenty before. Just let it die.

Boredon, lady Blackmont, Joncons redness--the resident trolls here. Off to the rant and rave thread for you, or did you full that up already? One wonders how you can never tire of dumping on a show you hate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The rant and rave thread travels too fast, and it is generally just involves a bunch of people agreeing with each other and ripping on D&D.




I don't hate the show, I'm just very disillusioned with the direction GoT is traveling.


Edited by Lady Blackmont

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are good and bad points in the show and books, bad being more noticeable with this season and the latest books than prior ones. Overall, though, where it is heading still has me hooked - I wanna' know if the White Walkers are going to save Westeros from all those yucky people, or if the yucky people will prevail :D

What direction of the show specifically has you disillusioned, Lady Blackmont?

Re your chaotic ladder complaints, I don't think they are really fair. I think the talk was in line with LFs show and book character.

What I find really strange, is that many people think the show has become somehow darker and more shocking than the books. I never realised just how bleak this saga was, or exactly where I thought it was going, until I read the books. The show may do some things for shock and awe, but these scenes are like the show sex scenes vs GRRMs sex scenes - the show isn't quite as deeply dark and cynical as the books are. The show likes to show boobs and blood - the books like to relish in human creepiness and despair.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the book readers shitting on Feast and Dance are doing so for a reason. And it's not because they actually think the books are poor quality.

One thing I have noticed is that they tend to be people who have expressed doubts that George will ever finish the saga. Leading me to believe that they think GoT is the only way they will ever see the story finished. So they have done some sort of mental gymnastics to convince themselves that the show is, in fact, great.

I admit that Feast and Dance ave flaws, but I found some of the storylines included to be incredible. The build up around Winterfell, everything going to shit in KL, the Iron Islands kingsmoot, and (say what you want) Dorne. Just because you can't handle extra characters doesn't make it bad writing. I found the father/daughter relationship between Arianne and Doran to be incredible. Arrianne is one of the deepest characters I have ever read about.

if you think that of arianne you need to read more books. Edited by bravosi42

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Smash the beetles was amazing. So was chaos as a ladder.

all lf-varys interactions.

and tywin skinning a deer

arya and the hound talking to the dying man (a shout out to beckett)

and stannis at the bank of braavos

all some of my favourite scenes.

Edited by bravosi42

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Back when Season 1 was in production, D&D found themselves short in terms of run-time. It was a low-budget operation back then, so they added a lot of scenes of just two or three characters talking in one room as a way to pad their show. Originally, these scenes were thought of as the shining stars of the series (Varys vs. Littlefinger being almost like a spy vs. spy). Then they turned into

Varys: I did what I did for the good of the realm.

Yes, good. This is in keeping with what we know of Varyss characterizations in the book. Except for the part where hes confronting Littlefinger (LF) but w/e.

Baelish: The realm. Do you know what the realm is? Its the thousand blades of Aegons enemies- a story we agree to tell each other over and over, until we forget that its a lie.

What? LF has always kind of worked within the system and played the political game for his own long-term strategy. Is more opportunistic than nihilistic, but maybe okay, its just his way of being like Im so above the game the high lords play. Lets see where this goes:

Varys: But what do we have left, once we abandon the lie? Chaos? A gaping pit waiting to swallow us all.

Well Varys and Illyrio are actively working to create chaos within the realm so that it is ripe for the taking, but because they have a plan in mind Varys might be inclined to view chaos in and of itself as a negative? Maybe?

image

Baelish: Chaos isnt a pit. Chaos is a ladder.

Yes, thats what we just saidboth Varys and LF need the realm fucked up

Many who try to climb it fail, and never get to try again.

Um. Because they die trying to turn political strife into opportunity? Okay, we guess thats a thing.

The fall breaks them.

Oh theyre not dead? Or theyre just done trying to make sense of it? Only some can handle the climb aka political machinations that thrive on chaos and despair?

And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse.

Sure. Some people dont like to be opportunistic dicks or in politics at all (see Aemon). Boy it would be great if we had some imagery of people climbing. Is anyone CLIMBING something this episode? Lets pan to them. Itd be so thematically awesome and not ham-fisted.

image

They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions.

Tricks are something a whore does for money. No seriously, people who dont want to have chaos in the realm because of suffering of others are clinging to illusions? Love is an illusion to LF despite the fact that its still blinding him to true success in his plot? Actually isnt that the one thing that we can say for a certainty about LF: his love for Cat?

Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.

But thats only if you abandon the lie of the realm, which you havent, and no. Seriously what the fuck is this supposed to be saying? Isnt the idea that youre trying to end up on the top of all of this in the end??

We dont understand why anyone likes this speech. In our opinion, it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

From Gotgifsandmusings. Because I don't need to explain it again.

why dont you look up your macbeth quote and understand the irony of you using it in this context....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ladder and beetles rants are bloated ramblings about nothing. How little meaning there is behind the posturing is incredibly lame and pedestrian.

In the case of Ladder it's also stupid and untenable. Chaos isn't the ladder, order is. Chaos helps LF climb in that it allows for a different order to emerge. But the endgame, and the reward, lies in order only for someone like him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ladder and beetles rants are bloated ramblings about nothing. How little meaning there is behind the posturing is incredibly lame and pedestrian.

In the case of Ladder it's also stupid and untenable. Chaos isn't the ladder, order is. Chaos helps LF climb in that it allows for a different order to emerge. But the endgame, and the reward, lies in order only for someone like him.

It was a bit posturing, sure - but order wasn't LFs ladder - only the promise of order which can only exist because of the chaotic pit. He doesn't have an endgame and no reward is enough - that's the point of his little talk - he just wants to keep climbing his ladder and the only way he knows how is by surrounding it with chaos.

Re the beetles, what's wrong with that? I watched my puppy kill a beetle by playing with it and then get sad that it stopped moving, the other day. What's the point? Life and death, the power over them - no-one knows the answer to these type of questions, without inventing some faith for themselves, so posturing is the only way to approach it.

all lf-varys interactions.

and tywin skinning a deer

arya and the hound talking to the dying man (a shout out to beckett)

and stannis at the bank of braavos

all some of my favourite scenes.

You forgot the Cersie/Robert talk about marriage, even GRRM wished that was in the books.

Edited by ummester

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was a bit posturing, sure - but order wasn't LFs ladder - only the promise of order which can only exist because of the chaotic pit. He doesn't have an endgame and no reward is enough - that's the point of his little talk - he just wants to keep climbing his ladder and the only way he knows how is by surrounding it with chaos

What chaos provides is opportunity - opportunity to overturn the order. Any situation where someone is on top and someone at the bottom is, by definition, order. Even if you go with "LF has no endgame" because you can't actually be alone at the top with everyone else far below, every single step he makes, every "intermediary" goal of his, lies in order.

I could go along with Chaos as the ladder even if it's a sloppy metaphor, if it remained consistent... but what LF ends up describing as the only thing that matters is the very definition of order.

Thing is the writers get caught up in their own tryhard writing and what the character ends up saying has literally no meaning. It's grandiloquent nonsense.

Such blather is typical of cartoonish villains, and it's not a bad thing per se, but calling that brilliant writing is a stretch.

Oh, and the beetles scene was about calling Orson Scott Card a retard for criticizing the show. Not much else to add here.

Edited by Facebookless Man

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

D&D have written very good scenes in the past.

I'm surprised some people would go into such depths to analyze every word and say "Aha..see? A flaw

The chaos ladder sounded very well on TV especially showing sansa. It gave us a clue on LF's plan and his method of working.

THAT IS ALL THAT FUCKING MATTERS

You need not over analyze it since TV is a visual medium and dialogues only support it.

Cercei/Robert

Arya/Tywin etc

were really good scenes which looked good on TV.

I just wish they had spent more time to improve the weak dornish script. However I did get the feeling they were trying their hand at comedy, Which failed quite badly.

This season didnt make sense on TV due to larger nunber of plot holes that were easily noticable. If they corrected atleast a few of them things would have gone quite well.

Edited by robasp2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×