MoreOrLess Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Not sure why not showing his death would be a "humiliation",. Compared to Ned and Robb being killed largely by surprise with little chance to react and then having there corpses multiated and mocked by cowards I would say he actually got one of the most dignified deaths(if it was) of any major character thus far. Lost a battle and was in a near hopless situation but still killed a couple of enemies and then got to confess to Renly's killing and show a bit of repentance before facing death with some courage. The #1 reason for me wanting him to be alive would be that I felt Stephan Dilane was the best thing about this season making the lack of Charles Dance easier to take. He was good in previous seasons but did seem to be playing a foil for other characters much of the time where as he got a good deal more focus this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben H'gahr Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I think D&D meant showing his death explicitly would be a "humiliation" rather than not showing it. But srsly I really don't understand what these two guys are up to and I totally agree w/you on Stephen Dillane's acting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skulb Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 1) IIRC D&D mentioned in the "Inside the Episode" that they did not want to "further humiliate Stannis" (paraphrasing) or so, do you think this could be a reason not to show his death explicitely? 2) He said "do your duty" where his last words (better than "Olly" lol) The options for Stannis seem rather unlikely to me, except 5: His arc is done in the show at least and D&D want to eliminate characters so they can hurry to the endgame. Nevertheless, I always liked Stannis somehow and for me (risking to become really unpopular now) the sacrifice of Shireen, despite its cruelty, was not out of character for me. For this I wish Stannis to remain alive b/c I really like his character: the guy who always came second, did his duty w/o complaining, learnt what defeat means (black water) but gains what is his right (or at least what he considers as such) with skill and expertise. I personally like this, but of course (at least in the show) the sacrifice of Shireen stains this. It seems highly implausible to me that anyone would be concerned about humiliating any character in GoT. And close to the top of the list of people you`d not care about being humiliated is Stannis. I mean the guy was slightly unlikeable even before he torched his only child. For comparison just look at what they did to Cercei, another villanous character, in the very same episode. And look at the other dead people: Robert killed by a pig, Ned beheaded after spending weeks or months in a pit, Lannister senior killed on the toilet, Prince Oberon having his skull crushed, Robb with the head of his wolf stuck down his torso, Sander Clegaine killed by a woman (A large woman with a sword, but nevertheless a woman). This is just a really flimsy explanation for why we weren`t show Stannis` death to me when you consider all this stuff. As for his last words they are as ambiguous as his alleged death. What is Brienne`s duty now? Clearly it is to find and save Sansa, and not to kill Stannis Baratheon. She doesn`t work for Renley anymore but for Catlyn Stark. That has been repeated about ten times. Perhaps Stannis could even help with Brienne`s real mission in some way. Like I said above though I really do think Stannis should be dead. The problem is that he`s not. He has leaned against a tree and said "do your duty". I could go outside and do that right now and it wouldn`t kill me. I must say though that I really liked E10 except for all the stuff with Stannis. It was just awfully written all round. Why does "the best military commander in Westeros" not scout his enemy and attack even though half his army has deserted? Why would Mel abandon him when she`s spent five seasons being a complete zealot, totally convinced of the accuracy of her visions? Why wasn`t Stannis killed off properly? All I can say is that if they leave him dead now, S5, E10 will stand out as possibly the worst written episode in the show. And I can not believe that this is how Martin wrote/will write Stannis` campaign vs Winterfell. If he does it will be very embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben H'gahr Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I understand but please note that I am merely quoting D&D here (concerning the "humiliation" issue).Furthermore I totally share your concerns regarding Stannis as "greatest military leader in Westeros" and how this was depicted in the show (i.e. marching onto a fortress in broad daylight w/o reconnaissance or pretection of the flank, irrespective having any siege equipment).I bet my *ss that GRRM has planned a more "appropriate" campaign for Stannis, whatever the outcome may be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ghost of Someone Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Stannis is certainly gone on the show, no question, Need room to bring back Greatjohn and bring in Wyman Manderly. Stannis failed. End of Story. What Brienne gave him was "Mercy" as Stannis would have been found afterwards and if alive, flayed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HodoringHodor Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I thought his fate was left ambiguous because it's the same in the books as well, in both we're led to think Stannis is dead but neither has confirmed it. The season ended with a lot of cliffhangers to give GRRM time to push out Winds of Winter since he's been saying how it's going to be out before season 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skulb Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Stannis is certainly gone on the show, no question, Need room to bring back Greatjohn and bring in Wyman Manderly. Stannis failed. End of Story. What Brienne gave him was "Mercy" as Stannis would have been found afterwards and if alive, flayed. This is nonsense.Of course there`s a question because the useless director of the show didn`t show Stannis`death. That`s why we`re having this discussion. Cliffhangers should have gone out of fashion with the old 1960s Batman TV show. At least when they`re as clumsy as this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Cold Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 I felt they didn't show it for two reasons.The first is to generate offseason discussion and ensure that viewers come back for Season 6.The second is to whitewash Brienne. It would not be heroic for her to execute a wounded and beaten man. Thus, they omitted the execution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A horsefaced girl Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 One thing they could do with show Stannis (if he is alive) is burn him to resurrect Jon. Kings blood to wake a dragon from stone? That to me would be more fitting than him dying out there wasting all that good kings blood. But then again, maybe Stannis doesn't have kings blood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben H'gahr Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 This is nonsense.Of course there`s a question because the useless director of the show didn`t show Stannis`death. That`s why we`re having this discussion. Cliffhangers should have gone out of fashion with the old 1960s Batman TV show. At least when they`re as clumsy as this one. I agree on your clumsy-cliffhanger statement but it's true that D&D need to "make space" for plots they think they need to bring like Northmen etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ServantOnIce Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Stannis and Jon Snow are done on the show. The actors have moved on and so should we. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ServantOnIce Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 One thing they could do with show Stannis (if he is alive) is burn him to resurrect Jon. Kings blood to wake a dragon from stone? That to me would be more fitting than him dying out there wasting all that good kings blood. But then again, maybe Stannis doesn't have kings blood? Stannis' Grand mother is a full blooded Targaryen, he has king's blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben H'gahr Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Stannis and Jon Snow are done on the show. The actors have moved on and so should we. I will send you a bottle of your favorite Whiskey next April if you are right with both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoreOrLess Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 The edit seems a bit strange to me though because even if you disagree about writing decisions thus far I think the show has been excellent when it comes to camera work and editing. Besides leaving his fate up in the air that kind of jump cut just seems strange going from such an important scene with the death of a major character to such an unimportant one with Ramsey killing nameless wounded. I felt the scene itself was excellent filmed/acted but I actually think it could have benefited from going on longer if Stannis is dead. You don't need to show Brienne hacking his head off as with Janos, just swing the stroke and have the sound of it going home then more importantly show a bit of reaction. Rather than being pleased with herself at killing off the monster she was after sobered by a brave but brutally pragmatic man who calls into question her own black and white view of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Breaker Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Stannis is alive. He split his troops and sent half with the horses to take the dreadfort. There he will unit with the karstarks and the northern Stark supporters to attack Winterfell and then south to Kingslanding. brieanne did not kill him it would be against her honor code to do it to a weakened man. Instead she will take him to the Dreadfort and then go after Sansa. Stannis knew he had to lose everything to achieve his goal per Melisandre. He knew with his daughters sacrifice that he would not be killed.Stannis is the greatest military commander in Westerios not a fool that would march head first in defeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Breaker Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Stannis is alive. He split his troops and sent half with the horses to take the dreadfort. There he will unit with the karstarks and the northern Stark supporters to attack Winterfell and then south to Kingslanding. brieanne did not kill him it would be against her honor code to do it to a weakened man. Instead she will take him to the Dreadfort and then go after Sansa. Stannis knew he had to lose everything to achieve his goal per Melisandre. He knew with his daughters sacrifice that he would not be killed.Stannis is the greatest military commander in Westerios not a fool that would march head first in defeat.Stannis is alive. He split his troops and sent half with the horses to take the dreadfort. There he will unit with the karstarks and the northern Stark supporters to attack Winterfell and then south to Kingslanding. brieanne did not kill him it would be against her honor code to do it to a weakened man. Instead she will take him to the Dreadfort and then go after Sansa. Stannis knew he had to lose everything to achieve his goal per Melisandre. He knew with his daughters sacrifice that he would not be killed.Stannis is the greatest military commander in Westerios not a fool that would march head first in defeat.There must Always be a Stark in Winterfell! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valhalla Morghulis Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Well the justification for Stannis not preparing for battle as the best commander in Westeros should have, would be that after killing his own daughter the abject horror of what he had done really hit him, and Dillane portrays this well, and this was cemented by the suicide of Selyse and the God's turning against him with the loss of Mel and half the men, so as Stannis draws his sword as the Boltons charge him, we see in his eyes he knows he will die and must and he does not try to flee. The battle is his deathwish not his destiny. I suspect the execution was not shown because as he is not dead in the books they maybe wanted to leave it slightly up in the air for now so GRRM could complete his death first. Or it could be that as Brienne was given permission by Stannis to kill him there was no dramatic need or suspense to it any more, so maybe even D and D have had enough of the slayings and didn't want to show yet another... or didn't have the budget to, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Breaker Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 There is no honor killing a wounded helpless Stannis. She will take him prisoner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronn Urgandy Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Please dont torture us book fans like this, the man is hopefully very, very dead. Maybe Brienne will give him a son....beastly, stern, and of course, black of hair. Stannis and Brienne going at it has conjured up perhaps the most awkward mental image I've had for a while. Their child would be unstoppable though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Breaker Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Stannis is the only threat to the Boltons! He's alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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