The Jomsviking Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 "Bad pussy..." I don't get the obsession over that line. It was a throwaway line between two mid-level characters, and people are acting like it sank the entire episode. I mean the fact that Ramsay's damn mistress has been threatening Sansa with everything short of murder - even though she's essentially the Lady of Winterfell now - doesn't bother people as much as BadPussyGate. GRRM himself has had some pretty ridiculous lines from his books (which is a given when you've written several thousand pages). I'm not judging or anything, but I think sometimes that the people on this forum fixate on certain lines and let it build up to some kind of rage when it's ultimately irrelevant. It reminds me of the "Only Cat" thing when Baelish pushed Lysa Arryn out the Moon Door. I've read the books several times and I honestly couldn't even remember what he said in them, and everyone was acting like that one line burned the entire show to the ground. There was some odd dialogue in this episode, but also some really great stuff. The interaction between Sam and Jon was actually a very well-written scene, showing some rare moments of warmth between characters that are typically forced to act unrelentingly grim. Likewise Stannis' (final?) words: "Go on then, do your duty." Perfect line and very effectively sums up the man: laconic, pragmatic, but ultimately very respectful of the importance of doing one's duty. I also enjoyed the dialogue between Jaime and Myrcella, quite possibly a totally invented conversation but also very touching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosehustle1 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I don't get why people find that so bad. - Robert was an alcooholic barely caring about his childs. Jaime the brillant knight all Lannisters are proud of. - Incest was common in the golden era of the Targaryan kings. Out of the most devout, westerosi nobles have no reason to have a big problem with that. - Replacing Robert's dynasty with full Lannisters was a Lann the Clever level achievement from Cersei and Jaime. True Lannisters should be proud of that. - Myrcella is a good girl. She wasn't going to answer "Monster !" to her father who tries to tell her something she already knows in a touchy way. - She had just spent several years in show!Porne, she must have seen far more depravation than a banal brother-sister-cestYeah, but what kid would feel okay knowing they are the product of incest? It's got to freak her out on some level. I mean, most people would be grossed out by such a thing. Especially, given the fact that so many people needlessly died to protect that lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosehustle1 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 "Bad pussy..." I don't get the obsession over that line. It was a throwaway line between two mid-level characters, and people are acting like it sank the entire episode. I mean the fact that Ramsay's damn mistress has been threatening Sansa with everything short of murder - even though she's essentially the Lady of Winterfell now - doesn't bother people as much as BadPussyGate. GRRM himself has had some pretty ridiculous lines from his books (which is a given when you've written several thousand pages). I'm not judging or anything, but I think sometimes that the people on this forum fixate on certain lines and let it build up to some kind of rage when it's ultimately irrelevant. It reminds me of the "Only Cat" thing when Baelish pushed Lysa Arryn out the Moon Door. I've read the books several times and I honestly couldn't even remember what he said in them, and everyone was acting like that one line burned the entire show to the ground. There was some odd dialogue in this episode, but also some really great stuff. The interaction between Sam and Jon was actually a very well-written scene, showing some rare moments of warmth between characters that are typically forced to act unrelentingly grim. Likewise Stannis' (final?) words: "Go on then, do your duty." Perfect line and very effectively sums up the man: laconic, pragmatic, but ultimately very respectful of the importance of doing one's duty. I also enjoyed the dialogue between Jaime and Myrcella, quite possibly a totally invented conversation but also very touching.No, the stuff with Myranda did bother people but that is not what this thread is about. The thread is focusing on this particular line of dialogue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrammarYatzy Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 1. You're missing the point. It's not the register that's a problem, it's what she says. It's bad dialogue. 2. You can keep calling the books pulp, it doesn't make it so. There are chapters that are easily as good as some novels that are considered literary classics. The storytelling itself is better than many literary classics. I've just read Brave New World, Fahrenheit 451 and Nineteen Eighty-Four for one of my students' literature exam. While all three make more interesting comments on their immediate historical context than ASOIAF does, they are all rather weak from a storytelling point of view - they have unconvincing characters, a rather simple, often unsurprising plot - Martin is the better storyteller. Their writing style isn't by any means better than that of, for example, the Theon chapters. So no, by no literary criteria is it pulp. You can keep saying "a few" of the chapters in a Ice&Fire are as good as the general writing in popular (but not great) classics like "Nineteen Eighty-Four." but that doesn't make it so. GRRM is a pretty bad writer who spends all of his time writing the same "ned stark dies" theme over and over again trying to get the same kudos he got the first time. Most of his writing is laughably bad like the "bad pussy" some of it is ok and a little of it is good. Two million words he probably wrote 20 decent ones in a row. I'd say the show has a better average. I doubt martin could ever put together 20 consecutive sentences that would rival legit great english works like tender is the night or pale fire even if you filled up the universe with his fatass. At least a monkey would type great words at random eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovely Lyanna Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 The bad pussy line may be the best one since Marg called out, "look, the pie." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerDesmondHume Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Everyone always imagined Darkstar as an emo goth kid. But the Dornish dialogue would have been a thousand times better if he just showed up on horse said "Men call me Darkstar I am of the night" and played the phantom of the opera on an organ for the duration of it. I really hope the Sand Snakes never show up again. The worst thing is how much they've been hyped up in pre production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErasmusF Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I don't get why people find that so bad. - Robert was an alcooholic barely caring about his childs. Jaime the brillant knight all Lannisters are proud of. - Incest was common in the golden era of the Targaryan kings. Out of the most devout, westerosi nobles have no reason to have a big problem with that. - Replacing Robert's dynasty with full Lannisters was a Lann the Clever level achievement from Cersei and Jaime. True Lannisters should be proud of that. - Myrcella is a good girl. She wasn't going to answer "Monster !" to her father who tries to tell her something she already knows in a touchy way. - She had just spent several years in show!Porne, she must have seen far more depravation than a banal brother-sister-cest This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guess who's back Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 The Bad pussy line was horrible but the scene with Jon and Sam made me cringe a good bit too (Jon basically asking Sam if he got laid). And what exactly is wrong with that? In no way was it abnormal conversation between two guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weeping Sore Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 They should have just changed Tyene's name to Bad Pussy. Bad Pussy Spice. Then you add Dominatrix Whip Spice and Phallic Spear Spice. I'm not sure about Ellaria...Rageaholic Spice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongehands Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 And what exactly is wrong with that? In no way was it abnormal conversation between two guys. Not in our context it wouldn't be no. When its between the lord commander and a member of the NW its a bit different. I would imagine Jon to be of the opinion that he'd rather not know. The fact Sam asked to go to Oldtown and it happened this late in the day was odd, it was like "Hey Jon, me old buddy I don't really fancy this imminent unstoppable army thing, it ok if I take off where its safe for a few years to study? And if the NW would pay my tuition fees too that would be swell" "Ok mate, why not, there are no pressing concerns here" "And I'm gonna take that Gilly with me too I think, am getting my end away on the regular and I like it, shagging is great - balls to these vows!" "Oh aye pal, crack on with that, I'll stay here with the clearly mutinous NW and wait for the walkers and the night that never ends to arrive. you lucky dog you!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borodin Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 And what exactly is wrong with that? In no way was it abnormal conversation between two guys. Two 9 year-olds maybe, but two men who are faced with impending doom and the end of the world don't giggle about humpies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedstarksdetachedhead Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I think the reaction to this season would be alot more postive if we got GOOD Sand Snakes. Dorne brought the whole show down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I don't know...the show has had some pretty bad dialogue at times. Yeah D&D are pretty bad at dialogue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xie Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 "Bad pussy..." I don't get the obsession over that line. It was a throwaway line between two mid-level characters, and people are acting like it sank the entire episode. I mean the fact that Ramsay's damn mistress has been threatening Sansa with everything short of murder - even though she's essentially the Lady of Winterfell now - doesn't bother people as much as BadPussyGate. Because it was the encapsulation of everything that was wrong with the Dorne storyline, and that storyline went a long way towards wrecking the season for a lot of viewers. Badly scripted, badly choreographed, badly done. Years from now, if seasons 6 and 7 didn't improve things, Dorne was the moment we'll all look back on and say "yep, that's where they jumped the shark". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamima Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 And what exactly is wrong with that? In no way was it abnormal conversation between two guys. It was like high school locker room talk...blech!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamima Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 oops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metopheles Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 They should have just changed Tyene's name to Bad Pussy. Bad Pussy Spice. Then you add Dominatrix Whip Spice and Phallic Spear Spice. I'm not sure about Ellaria...Rageaholic Spice? Mother Spice is Bitch Spice, then we have Poison Spice, Slap Spice, Spearmint Spice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Stoneheart Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 It was like high school locker room talk...blech!!! Game of BROS!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosfan Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I don't get why people find that so bad. - Robert was an alcooholic barely caring about his childs. Jaime the brillant knight all Lannisters are proud of. Robert was also a great knight once and Jaime also barely cares (and isn't brilliant knight anymore). - Incest was common in the golden era of the Targaryan kings. Out of the most devout, westerosi nobles have no reason to have a big problem with that. No it wasn't, Targs were exception, everyone abhors incest from smallfolk to priests to nobles. - Replacing Robert's dynasty with full Lannisters was a Lann the Clever level achievement from Cersei and Jaime. True Lannisters should be proud of that. She is a bastard and thus not a true Lannister (per Westerosi perception). - Myrcella is a good girl. She wasn't going to answer "Monster !" to her father who tries to tell her something she already knows in a touchy way. Yeah having uncle-father is so endearing thing. - She had just spent several years in show!Porne, she must have seen far more depravation than a banal brother-sister-cest Few things if any can be more depraved than twincest and Dorne also isn't ok with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 There is one moment when Jaime tries to bond with Tommen (during Tywin's funeral) and he realises how dangerous it could be. He also ponders many times on whether he must tell the kids or not but he does not forget they will lose their crowns if this happens. Also, remember Jaime was ready to leave KL with Cersei as a wife and the children as his children. He didn't want to live a lie. The whole thing about Jaime not caring about the children is not true either. He's just bitter about it and has done what he always done: pretend he doesn't care, "go inside". When he hears about Joffrey's death he's casual but he then says "and this time, I will hold (a new baby) in my arms". He wanted to do it with Joffrey and Cersei didn't allow it. She made him resign to his paternity so he had no other choice but to step aside. This is something that happens often in our times too: women make all the decisions because somehow society believes no man wants to be a father and all of their children are happy accidents while women are better parents by default. I do remember a local case in which the judge granted a women full custody just because she was the mother despite she was declared clinically insane and ended up killing the child, even thought the father was in a better position to raise the kid. I personally congratulate GRRM for including this important topic that is many times left aside. But back to topic (kinda), while I'm ok with Jaime being in a position in which he could tell Myrcella about it, the scene is very loose. For instance, she pretty much said "Yes, I'm ok with it because I've been in the land of Anything Goes so it's fine". And it also makes her look bad as she's going to marry Trystane under the fake pretence she's a Princess when she is not. She's also going to lie to him. So, yeah. They wanted toe scene to happen and used Jaime's worries about his children as an excuse but they forgot that Jaime is also very cautious about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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