Sly Wren Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 No it was Ser Baristan: But Ashara’s daughter had been stillborn, and his fair lady had thrown herself from a tower soon after, mad with grief for the child she had lost, and perhaps for the man who had dishonored her at Harrenhal as well. So the man who dishonoured her is dead - and Baristan thinks that Danaerys looks like Ashara? Right--Edric doesn't mention this--only Barristan. Which opens the door a bit on cause of suicide. Worth remembering two points; the First Men already had gods of their own, and runes are nowhere connected with the three-fingered tree-huggers. Who or what are the runes providing protection against? If the Thenns end up having some kind of key to help deal with the Children their gods--I wouldn't be flat out gobsmacked, but I might be a bit surprised. Books nod at the wildlings and their old gods knowledge much more. Had assumed that's what Val was up to. But we have met a few Thenns. Going to be a House Thenn (or are he and Alys calling it something else?). If the runes and Thenns have significance--that gets interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yield. Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Ugh, just post your theory already. No I wanna work it out myself! If he posts it before I get there I will be influenced by it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sly Wren Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Hahahah i kind of figured....Yeah that "call him what you will" is what clinched it for me as well the labels don't hide that he's just a really bad ass Skinchanger with prophetic dream which really is what a Greenseer is. One decides he'll make the earth quake the other decides i'll use massive blizzards to freeze their arses. Dido on BR's counterpart I still think that is CHs for now he's another one whose been given name and labels the Ranger,CHs ,some dead thing... Okay--I'm really behind--site kept kicking me off right after any time I gently disagreed with some of the math fans over on RLJ--am now thinking math dislikes me. So maybe I'm misreading you--but are you arguing competing poles/binaries? Two greenseers--one for earthquakes/fire and one for ice? I'm down for different greenseers with different clans of Children--some agreeing, some opposing each other. But you seem to be suggesting a clear division, one greenseer on each side--or am I just too behind to follow you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 No it was Ser Baristan:No, it was Edric and Allyria Dayne. It's time for that reread, my friend."My father was Ser Arthur's elder brother. Lady Ashara was my aunt. I never knew her, though. She threw herself into the sea from atop the Palestone Sword before I was born.""Why would she do that?" said Arya, startled.Ned looked wary. Maybe he was afraid that she was going to throw something at him. "Your lord father never spoke of her?" he said. "The Lady Ashara Dayne, of Starfall?""No. Did he know her?""Before Robert was king. She met your father and his brothers at Harrenhal, during the year of the false spring.""Oh." Arya did not know what else to say. "Why did she jump in the sea, though?""Her heart was broken."Sansa would have sighed and shed a tear for true love, but Arya just thought it was stupid. She couldn't say that to Ned, though, not about his own aunt. "Did someone break it?"He hesitated. "Perhaps it's not my place . . . ""Tell me."He looked at her uncomfortably. "My aunt Allyria says Lady Ashara and your father fell in love at Harrenhal - " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfmaid7 Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Okay--I'm really behind--site kept kicking me off right after any time I gently disagreed with some of the math champions over on RLJ--am now thinking math dislikes me. So maybe I'm misreading you--but are you arguing competing poles/binaries? Two greenseers--one for earthquakes/fire and one for ice? I'm down for different greenseers with different clans of Children--some agreeing, some opposing each other. But you seem to be suggesting a clear division, one greenseer on each side--or am I just too behind to follow you? Oh no i don't think their are only two, we are led to believe that their are a few on the isle of the faces,we have no idea how many actually might be left. what i'm getting at is BR and another might be rogue doing their own crap and took on the role they are in now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mother of Dragons Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 I seem to have misjudged your confidence. :rofl:I bet $10 that RL=J and I don't even believe it. But I'm banking that you're on the mark more than JNR about this. It doesn't have to be a huge bet, it's all in fun. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 BR if he's not responsible most definitely has a Cold counterpart a skinchanger of immense power who does the same thing with as a Greenseer but instead of causing earthquakes uses blizzards.This is fan fiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew. Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 One decides he'll make the earth quake the other decides i'll use massive blizzards to freeze their arses. I increasingly perceive greenseers, whoever/whatever is leading the Others, and shadowbinders as variations of the same thing-- shaman figures, or intermediaries. In the case of the greenseers it's explicit, since we're told that the CotF (and, presumably, men who give themselves to the weirwoods) go into the trees and the earth, and Bran seems to be able to draw upon the knowledge of this collective when he communes with weirnet.While it may seem that this is less applicable to "fire," I think we've actually seen this hinted at in Varys' story of his castration, and perhaps even play out on the page with MMD's ritual in aGoT. If I'm not mistaken, Dany glimpses multiple shadows "dancing" in the tent along with MMD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sly Wren Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 No, it was Edric and Allyria Dayne. It's time for that reread, my friend.SNIPHuh--apparently I need a re-read, too. At least Edric doesn't mention a baby (not really workable at saving face, but still). But if Edric knows the story and still gives no indication of animosity re: Ned to Arya--makes the question of why the Daynes like Ned more obvious of an issue. I still think Rhaegar's most likely the father, but Arthur is definitely in the running. Family and Ned have big confab after all the horror--group therapy, medieval style. Ned takes baby for Lya, family gets cover story of stillborn via Ashara's suicide--not in any way perfect, but Arthur's possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 I'm not saying that it wasn't the greenseers,i've been saying this for ages and ages and ages the COTF are in service to the Greenseers and as far as power goes its the Greenseers and still is them. Actually I'd be inclined to say that if we are dealing with a hive mind of the kind GRRM has frequently written about, the greenseers are not the masters at all but the interface between the Old Gods in the trees and the earth and the rock etc. and the living population outside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 No I wanna work it out myself! If he posts it before I get there I will be influenced by it.Like you already aren't influenced by the thousands of theories on these forums? Unless JNR is privy to different canonical information than the rest of us, I would think the theory is fairly apparent from reading the text, and has already been proposed. It will spoil nothing, as we have read the same books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mother of Dragons Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Mojo Jojo (a Heretic in good standing)More or less... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sly Wren Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Oh no i don't think their are only two, we are led to believe that their are a few on the isle of the faces,we have no idea how many actually might be left. what i'm getting at is BR and another might be rogue doing their own crap and took on the role they are in now.We agree--good (or maybe not good for me--since I misread you so badly). Totally agree that BR at least could very well be going rogue and recruiting Bran as rogue successor (do the Reeds know all this? Don't know yet. . . ) I increasingly perceive greenseers, whoever/whatever is leading the Others, and shadowbinders as variations of the same thing-- shaman figures, or intermediaries. In the case of the greenseers it's explicit, since we're told that the CotF (and, presumably, men who give themselves to the weirwoods) go into the trees and the earth, and Bran seems to be able to draw upon the knowledge of this collective when he communes with weirnet.While it may seem that this is less applicable to "fire," I think we've actually seen this hinted at in Varys' story of his castration, and perhaps even play out on the page with MMD's ritual in aGoT. If I'm not mistaken, Dany glimpses multiple shadows "dancing" in the tent along with MMD.Drawing on knowledge--not just shadows for the fire lot, but also visions in the flames (or were you already taking that into consideration?) But yes--have wondered if CH is a cold version of what Thoros did to Beric and if the Red Lot are going to be able to do mass raisings of the some sort of fire version of the wights. Bottom line--they do seem to be very similar. . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 No, it was Edric and Allyria Dayne. It's time for that reread, my friend."My father was Ser Arthur's elder brother. Lady Ashara was my aunt. I never knew her, though. She threw herself into the sea from atop the Palestone Sword before I was born.""Why would she do that?" said Arya, startled.Ned looked wary. Maybe he was afraid that she was going to throw something at him. "Your lord father never spoke of her?" he said. "The Lady Ashara Dayne, of Starfall?""No. Did he know her?""Before Robert was king. She met your father and his brothers at Harrenhal, during the year of the false spring.""Oh." Arya did not know what else to say. "Why did she jump in the sea, though?""Her heart was broken."Sansa would have sighed and shed a tear for true love, but Arya just thought it was stupid. She couldn't say that to Ned, though, not about his own aunt. "Did someone break it?"He hesitated. "Perhaps it's not my place . . . ""Tell me."He looked at her uncomfortably. "My aunt Allyria says Lady Ashara and your father fell in love at Harrenhal - " Clearly we have two different stories [hardly a unique situation here] but the point is that Baristan, who was himself in love with her, says the man who knocked her up had died - which certainly wasn't then the case with Lord Eddard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eira Seren Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 No I wanna work it out myself! If he posts it before I get there I will be influenced by it.Yeah, me too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yield. Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Like you already aren't influenced by the thousands of theories on these forums? Unless JNR is privy to different canonical information than the rest of us, I would think the theory is fairly apparent from reading the text, and has already been proposed. It will spoil nothing, as we have read the same books. Yes but hints are just that, hints. Whose to say that the hints you put out there are the right ones? For all I know you could be leading down the garden path. If JNR or Snowfyre or anyone who agrees with JNR, out and out put up an X+Y=J and I read it without anyone elses take as in the project coming up, that will influence me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eira Seren Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 I seem to have misjudged your confidence. :rofl:Ah, go on Ran. Surely there's a bit more room for negotiation :)I might even bet against him. And I'm not all that certain of RLJ these days myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 We agree--good (or maybe not good for me--since I misread you so badly). Totally agree that BR at least could very well be going rogue and recruiting Bran as rogue successor (do the Reeds know all this? Don't know yet. . . ) I'd be inclined to read it as the Old Gods, through the three eyed crow, recruiting Bran to replace the failing Bloodraven. Remember that while Bloodraven speaks of watching Bran from the very beginning he himself was already very old by that point - way past the normal human span. In so far as he's part of the bringing Bran to the Heart of Darkness is he grooming Bran for a higher purpose or has he been promised that once the new greenseer is ready to take over he will at long last be allowed to die? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 OK Hit the pause button. With Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell coming up in a few minutes I need to get Heresy 171 opened before I go Heresy 171 is now up and running. See you across there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfmaid7 Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 This is fan fiction.What exactly is fanfiction? Lets see We have Mr BR who the COTF call Greenseer who is nothing more than a skinchanger who according to every text available can skinchange animals,raise the earth am i right so far? Then we see the same thing occuring in the ice the enthralling of "dead" animals and "dead" people and instead of shaking the earth a blizzard precedes them.......Soooooo whats the disconnect? I increasingly perceive greenseers, whoever/whatever is leading the Others, and shadowbinders as variations of the same thing-- shaman figures, or intermediaries. In the case of the greenseers it's explicit, since we're told that the CotF (and, presumably, men who give themselves to the weirwoods) go into the trees and the earth, and Bran seems to be able to draw upon the knowledge of this collective when he communes with weirnet.While it may seem that this is less applicable to "fire," I think we've actually seen this hinted at in Varys' story of his castration, and perhaps even play out on the page with MMD's ritual in aGoT. If I'm not mistaken, Dany glimpses multiple shadows "dancing" in the tent along with MMD. I agree with this and in the case of Bran and BR that whole weirwood paste is a way to bind their shaman to the trees. Actually I'd be inclined to say that if we are dealing with a hive mind of the kind GRRM has frequently written about, the greenseers are not the masters at all but the interface between the Old Gods in the trees and the earth and the rock etc. and the living population outside This is very possible and very plausible so i'm not against it.I'm struck by BR's image in the tree and i'm wondering how much of that is ''actually" himWe agree--good (or maybe not good for me--since I misread you so badly). Totally agree that BR at least could very well be going rogue and recruiting Bran as rogue successor (do the Reeds know all this? Don't know yet. . . ) Drawing on knowledge--not just shadows for the fire lot, but also visions in the flames (or were you already taking that into consideration?) But yes--have wondered if CH is a cold version of what Thoros did to Beric and if the Red Lot are going to be able to do mass raisings of the some sort of fire version of the wights. Bottom line--they do seem to be very similar. . . .Very similar which is the point i'm making with VOTFM the Old powers are all one manifesting differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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