Unsullier Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I've read the interwiew where he says he is dead, and that he is pursuing other acting gigs. Strictly speaking, that is not a lie. He cannot be resurrected if he doesn't die first, And what young actor isn't always looking for other gigs? I think he does die ansd he gets resurrected by Mel. Maybe they "Hollywood" it up, put his body on a burning pyre, and he rises from it a la Dany in season 1. Then we get further proof of R + L = J. The Brother of the Night's Watch shit themselves, and they realize who he is and what he can do. The fans get a big A-HA moment, and the fanboyz all get slathered in geek sauce. Its a beautiful device - they get to keep a favorite character, that favorite character is stronger, more powerful than ever, they get to keep Mel's bewbz on screen a little while longer, and we will get more Ghost. But most importantly, it keeps us talking. That is all for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maesteress Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 In that same interview/Q&A (Oxford Union) where D&D tease about Jon wolf warging in season 6, the one obvious thing to me is it is a virtual Kit Harrington love-fest. D&D adore the actor and the person - and without a doubt, Jon Snow comes across clearly as their absolute favorite character (in fact at one point, I think they answer a question specifically stating that). Sure, it could have all been staged that way, but I don't think so. I think they genuinely look at Harrington as their one and only Jon Snow. He is irreplaceable. To both them and honestly, most of the viewing audience. There will be a very low acceptance of another actor taking his place, even if it's a "resurrected and changed" character. This is also a TV show. Follow the money. The money is with Kit Harrington. He will absolutely be back. Jon Snow is too important to the story. Kit Harrington is too important to the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonehearted Snake Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Jon dies. He will live again. Remember that synopsis GRRM sent to his publisher when he was first proposing his "trilogy"? He named five characters who made it until the end of the books: Daenerys, Tyrion, Jon, Arya and Sansa. The plots have changed -- Arya is not in love with Jon, and Sansa doesn't have Joffrey's baby and reject her family -- but I think the same five will still be standing in the end. Even if one or more of them briefly laid down during a short interim death. To become Azor Ahai reborn, Jon Snow will be reborn as well. Don't want to detail, just clarify - it was Bran, not Sansa. I agree with your overall point though - I don't think we can use the original idea for hard proof for most stuff but it is hard to see how GRRM would devise a series with 5 main characters and then say, eh, NVM one of them isn't that important after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faint Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 You guys, actors and directors never lie. For example, for Stark Trek Into Darkness, did Benedict Cumberbatch and J.J. Abrams lie constantly and repeatedly about Cumberbatch playing Khan? Of course no . . . oh, wait . . . whoops! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hajk Posted June 17, 2015 Author Share Posted June 17, 2015 You guys, actors and directors never lie. For example, for Stark Trek Into Darkness, did Benedict Cumberbatch and J.J. Abrams lie constantly and repeatedly about Cumberbatch playing Khan? Of course no . . . oh, wait . . . whoops! What this shows is that it is possible that actors or directors may lie. But it certainly doesn't show that this is more probable. On balance, I'm sure that they tell the truth much more often than lying. Hence the rational presumption, it seems, would be that they are telling the truth rather than a conspiracy of silence and dissimulation. Making room for the possibility that they are lying is not the same thing as saying that it is probable that they are lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hajk Posted June 17, 2015 Author Share Posted June 17, 2015 This is also a TV show. Follow the money. The money is with Kit Harrington. He will absolutely be back. Jon Snow is too important to the story. Kit Harrington is too important to the show. The money is with those who place ads. They do this when they think that their ads are seen by a large audience. So the money is with the ratings. Will the ratings really go away if Kit does? They may well have done focus group studies on this. It certainly seems possible to retain ratings even if Kit is gone just as it was possible in the aftermath of the Red Wedding. All that is needed is important events that keep the audience interest (e.g. the wall falling as early as 6x02 or something like that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faint Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 What this shows is that it is possible that actors or directors may lie. But it certainly doesn't show that this is more probable. On balance, I'm sure that they tell the truth much more often than lying. Hence the rational presumption, it seems, would be that they are telling the truth rather than a conspiracy of silence and dissimulation. Making room for the possibility that they are lying is not the same thing as saying that it is probable that they are lying. Yeah, you're right. It's not like Kit Harington has already lied about cutting his long hair and beard that he claims to hate so much, which he would need in order to retain the proper look for the beginning of filming in July . . . oh, wait . . . whoops! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Bazunor the Twisted Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I personally believe Jon Snow is alive and will make a return. I feel he has to.But let's say he is dead, it kind of fits with the narrative too. He is destined for greatness, but is killed by his own men in an anticlimactic ambush. Well guys... that kind of fits with GRRM's realistic way of portraying this world. That saying I do think he's returning and yes, everyone is deflecting/lying. Come on think about it, what if someone asked Hound "Are you coming back in Season 6 for Cleganebowl?" and he responds "I'm done with the show." Then returns in Season 6 and does Cleganbowl. No one is going to talk shit to him about it, everyone will just be happy he is back. That's what is going to happen to Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faint Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 The question is not whether Jon is alive or dead, it is whether he will be resurrected. The answer is yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Bazunor the Twisted Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 The question is not whether Jon is alive or dead, it is whether he will be resurrected. The answer is yes. I am interested to see your response if both books and show have him killed for good. :cool4: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hajk Posted June 17, 2015 Author Share Posted June 17, 2015 Yeah, you're right; it's not like Kit Harington has already lied about cutting his long hair and beard that he hates so much to retain the proper look for filming in July . . . oh, wait . . . whoops! I wonder if you think that sarcasm makes any point. All it does is discourage the other person from engaging with you. Perhaps that is victory on a forum. The evidence remains the same. His reasons may be for the show or for any other reason. I certainly don't know. And you have to allege a conspiracy of lies involving more than just Kit. Now unless you have extra evidence that has not appeared in the discussions that have been going on here for the past few days and has already been debated to death, there is little reason to rehash more of the same in a snarky tone. Back to the actual point, even if someone is directly known to have lied, it does not mean that the general presumption would be that they are lying. For that they would need to be far more prolific liars. For example I wouldn't discount everything that ever comes from government sources just because they are known to have lied in some cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Reaper oOo Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Either we're all right, or in complete denial. 50/50 at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowKitteh Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 In that same interview/Q&A (Oxford Union) where D&D tease about Jon wolf warging in season 6, the one obvious thing to me is it is a virtual Kit Harrington love-fest. D&D adore the actor and the person - and without a doubt, Jon Snow comes across clearly as their absolute favorite character (in fact at one point, I think they answer a question specifically stating that). Sure, it could have all been staged that way, but I don't think so. I think they genuinely look at Harrington as their one and only Jon Snow. He is irreplaceable. To both them and honestly, most of the viewing audience. There will be a very low acceptance of another actor taking his place, even if it's a "resurrected and changed" character. This is also a TV show. Follow the money. The money is with Kit Harrington. He will absolutely be back. Jon Snow is too important to the story. Kit Harrington is too important to the show. Yes, yes, YES. This! Besides, this is FILM (well, digital HD video...), if they can make WWs, they can change Kit enough to keep him in the role, should that be required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam20 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I've read the interwiew where he says he is dead, and that he is pursuing other acting gigs. Strictly speaking, that is not a lie. He cannot be resurrected if he doesn't die first, And what young actor isn't always looking for other gigs? The thing is, Kit didn't only said that Jon Snow was dead. He said he wasn't going to be part of the cast for season 6. ''I’m dead. I’m not coming back next season. So that’s all I can tell you, really'' See: http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-dies-interview That's pretty straight forward. A lie through his teeth? Could be. But maybe there's going to be a recast or Jon Snow is really dead. Gone. In case he was telling the truth, it seems unlikely that we won't hear a thing about Jon Snow for an entire season. So we have to expect the worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowKitteh Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I wonder if you think that sarcasm makes any point. All it does is discourage the other person from engaging with you. Perhaps that is victory on a forum. The evidence remains the same. His reasons may be for the show or for any other reason. I certainly don't know. And you have to allege a conspiracy of lies involving more than just Kit. Now unless you have extra evidence that has not appeared in the discussions that have been going on here for the past few days and has already been debated to death, there is little reason to rehash more of the same in a snarky tone. Back to the actual point, even if someone is directly known to have lied, it does not mean that the general presumption would be that they are lying. For that they would need to be far more prolific liars. For example I wouldn't discount everything that ever comes from government sources just because they are known to have lied in some cases. I'm in 3 performing unions. I'm PAID to lie. :cool4: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbossa Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Here's why i'm 100% sure he will be resurrected(not sure if by others or Mel): camera shot at the end has him lying on snow. Now why is that? The brothers executed him inside castle back, what did they do? Drag his body on top of the wall and drop it from there? Drag it outside and leave it there? They wouldn't be so reckless, especially Thorne who would burn him right there on the spot. If i'm to guess is that Mel snatches his body somehow, bull shits them into her doing the burning. Going outside on the snow with him and resurrects him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newstar Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Strategy? If Jon Snow stays dead: "Told you so."If Jon Snow doesn't stay dead: "Gotcha." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oierem Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 For the first time ever, the producers/actors/HBO can keep the fate of a character in the dark for everyone, since there are no more books available. It's obvious they had to think carefully about what they should say about Jon's future (Kit does a lot of interviews after all, he's one of the big 3), and saying "I don't know if I'm back, just wait and see" would lead to never ending questions about his future. Saying that he's done they will leave him alone, he won't be part of season 6 (except for a couple of quick shots done in secret at the very end of the season) and they can fool the audience. The show has done a much better job than the books creating the impression that Jon might be gone forever. In the books, thanks to all the fake-deaths, apparent deaths and resurrections, nobody believed for a second Jon was gone forever. The show has everybody freaking out about the very real possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravosi42 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 For the first time ever, the producers/actors/HBO can keep the fate of a character in the dark for everyone, since there are no more books available. It's obvious they had to think carefully about what they should say about Jon's future (Kit does a lot of interviews after all, he's one of the big 3), and saying "I don't know if I'm back, just wait and see" would lead to never ending questions about his future. Saying that he's done they will leave him alone, he won't be part of season 6 (except for a couple of quick shots done in secret at the very end of the season) and they can fool the audience. The show has done a much better job than the books creating the impression that Jon might be gone forever. In the books, thanks to all the fake-deaths, apparent deaths and resurrections, nobody believed for a second Jon was gone forever. The show has everybody freaking out about the very real possibility.I know they have me jittery even though Im 99.9% sure hes coming back.Pretty impressi e , in the circumstances. .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woman of War Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Here's why i'm 100% sure he will be resurrected(not sure if by others or Mel): camera shot at the end has him lying on snow. Now why is that? The brothers executed him inside castle back, what did they do? Drag his body on top of the wall and drop it from there? Drag it outside and leave it there? They wouldn't be so reckless, especially Thorne who would burn him right there on the spot. If i'm to guess is that Mel snatches his body somehow, bull shits them into her doing the burning. Going outside on the snow with him and resurrects him.Mel jumps on Jon's pyre, sacrificing herself and out comes ! POP ! the Magic Dragon. You need a burned witch to bring out a hero.We get our Jon and Mel gets what she deserves for burning Shireen and some others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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