Am I alone in thinking Doran is in on the poisoning?

[Baron Bazunor the Twisted]

.... Doran could have slaughtered Jamie, Bronn and Myrcella when they were his guests/captives in his homeland. He has nothing to do with this. I mean I guess he could be trying to seem like the good guy still and take Myrcella out, but the only reason to kill Myrcella would be to invoke a war... which he could have done while having Jamie killed and keeping his heir in Sunspear.

Yeah so it makes no sense if he was in on it basically.

And to clarify, I'm not saying he doesn't have a takeover game in mind, just not that way. No way. 0% chance.

[Hippocras]

It is possible. These are the scenarios:

1. He is not in on it exactly, but did expect it. He gave Trystane the antidote. The reason for not just stopping it would be to further strengthen Lannister trust in him, thus giving him better cover to implement his own plan.

2. He was directly in on it, and had Bronn bring the antidote. Similar motivations as above, only this time with the deliberate intention of framing Elaria and the Sand Snakes for attempted murder. This gets rid of dangerous detractors in his inner circle.

3. He is in on it and wants Myrcella to die, confident that his earlier charade about peace with Lannisters will mean he is above suspicion. Thus he does not provoke war, but gets rid of an enemy.

[Frankie G]

As others have said, there is no way that Doran would risk his one and only (show) child for something that stupid. He wants ears in King's Landing, a la putting Trystane on the Small Council. Killing Myrcella does nothing but erode his position.

[Jubal]

Well, the answer to my question would appear to be an unequivocal "no", thanks for the input folks.

Also, thanks for not taking up my offer and calling me an idiot for thinking it. :D

I guess the nod was just him saying to Ellaria "Go on, be nice like you promised."

[Jerimy Carroll]

It's possible, but I feel like it's a real long shot.

[Hippocras]

As others have said, there is no way that Doran would risk his one and only (show) child for something that stupid. He wants ears in King's Landing, a la putting Trystane on the Small Council. Killing Myrcella does nothing but erode his position.

It does not really risk Trystane. Elaria showed she was not acting for Doran in front of Jamie. Elaria would take the fall and Doran would fein innocence. Trystane would be useless as a hostage against Elaria.

[Tyrion's Third Wife]

I just thought of another reason Doran couldn't have been in on it: He'd have a hard time keeping the loyalty of his son. His son was genuinely in love with Myrcella. There is no way Trystane would have participated, and it would be foolhardy to attempt some misdirection (say, to Mereen) without Trystane in on the plan.

[Imp Beyond the Wall]

This was not my impression, but it is a possibility.

Especially if Doran's long view is Trystane and Daenarys rather than Trystane and Myrcella.

There is no Quentyn on the show so Doran's plans cannot be discerned from the books.

In the novels though, Doran sees Dorne as a Targaryen ally rather than a Lannister ally.

The premise of this thread is an interesting idea.

On a tangential note, I had my doubts about how the show would represent the Sand Snakes. Wow, they exceeded my expectations. I am not even mad about Jaime and Bronn in Dorne anymore.

[Anak Bulaclac]

I think Doran was behind the whole Dorne fiasco. If you

It is possible. These are the scenarios:

1. He is not in on it exactly, but did expect it. He gave Trystane the antidote. The reason for not just stopping it would be to further strengthen Lannister trust in him, thus giving him better cover to implement his own plan.

2. He was directly in on it, and had Bronn bring the antidote. Similar motivations as above, only this time with the deliberate intention of framing Elaria and the Sand Snakes for attempted murder. This gets rid of dangerous detractors in his inner circle.

3. He is in on it and wants Myrcella to die, confident that his earlier charade about peace with Lannisters will mean he is above suspicion. Thus he does not provoke war, but gets rid of an enemy.

I think Doran is behind the whole Dorne fiasco. If you read between the lines during Ellaria's "forgiveness", there's a subtext that implies he was dissatisfied that she failed to "kidnap" Myrcella. And judging from the look he gave Ellaria before the "kiss", I suspect he knew about the poison otherwise he may not have insisted on the goodbye thingy.

[King Tyrion I]

Do not agree with this OP.

For me, couldn't be more clear that Doran is a level headed, wise ruler and opposed action towards the Lannisters.

:agree:

I also got that impression.

Otherwise, he wouldn't have pressed Ellaria to submit and swear allegiance. If he wanted Myrcella out of the way, he could have done so. He would have annulled the betrothal any time he wanted to.

Myrcella was to be a "honored guest" according to Tyrion.

[Chilli]

I think Doran's plan was to marry Trystane to Myrcella. And to put the Sandsnakes at important places in Westeros. And to get rid of Myrcella after that has been established. And then marry Trystane to Dany.

But Ellaria and the Sandsnakes have crossed his plan because they thought he was weak. Now it's gonna be very difficult for the Martells, don't know how they will solve it without war.

[shaggy_rick]

wait so trystane is still going to kings landing even though mrycella was murdered?

how does this even make sense?

It doesn't. Even Elaria shouldn't be so dumb.

[shaggy_rick]

Well its Dorans boat with his men on it, Jaimie isn't a fighter anymore with one hand, so I don't see how Trystane is at risk, unless the boat actually goes to Kings Landing. Now if the boat is actually going to Mereen and Dany, with Jaimie as a gift for the rightful Queen with a marriage offer from Trystane, that would make sense if you think Doran approved the hit on Myrcella. Bronn might have been bought off by the Martells, therefore Jaimie is really a prisoner with no help in sight. I suppose that Kevan might have gotten a raven from Jaimie announcing the arrangement that was made with Doran but Doran can always say the boat was lost in a storm and TYene and Nym might be sent to KIngs Landing to stall and cause problems just like they were in the books.

I hadn't thought of this. That would really be a clever idea. But the problem is: it would make sense! Therefore D&D won't do it and send Trystane straight to Kings Landing.

[Mingolla]

It doesn't. Even Elaria shouldn't be so dumb.

Its not Ellaria who is dumb, its Trystane and Jaime if they continue to KL instead of turning back. And Doran if he dont order Trystane to come back from KL once he knows about it. But really its the writers if they think Trystane going to KL like nothing happened make any sense.

[Hoppy Hour]

Hi there folks, first post here. I'm purely a show watcher and have avoided reading internet forums until now; however as I've heard that the show has either caught up with or overtaken the books in most respects, I feel that I'm now relatively safe from major spoilers.

Reading through some of the threads here it would seem that most people think that Ellaria acted of her own accord poisoning Myrcella, going against the wishes of Doran Martell. I'm not so sure though...

Perhaps Doran has realised that with everything that's happened in King's Landing recently (in other words, since Cersei has been calling the shots), it may not be a particularly good idea to marry his son and heir to an illegitimate child (of an incestuous relationship, no less) whose family are losing allies and support. Perhaps, seeing how his son was so hopelessly in love with her, he decided that killing her was the best option?

On first watching I assumed that Ellaria had defied him, but when I watched again I thought that the nod Doran gave to Ellaria just before she kissed Myrcella was significant. It seemed to be a "do it now" kind of nod!

So, what do you think? Am I reading too much into that nod? Is it likely that Doran ordered the poisoning?

...Or am I just being a bit of an idiot? :D (Don't be afraid to tell me if this is the case!)

He gives the green light to kill Myrcella, and handing his son and heir to the Lannisters in the process? How stupid would that be?

[The hairy bear]

If Doran had wanted short term revenge on the Lannisters, the attack of Jaime and Bronn would have been and excelent opportunity to kill both. And he could have even killed Myrcella and argue that she was slain by Bronn amidst the fight, blaming on the Lannisters. Or poison her anyway in her return home. Or leave her alive, because who would kill a youn innocent girl when Jaime Lannister himself is an available target?

In fact, that point stands for Ellaria though. Why would Ellaria Sand decide to poison Myrcella instead of Jaime? Who would prefer a hit on a girl in love with Trystane that the male figurhead of the Lannisters who treacherously murdered Elia's father in-law?!

[Hoppy Hour]

Well its Dorans boat with his men on it, Jaimie isn't a fighter anymore with one hand, so I don't see how Trystane is at risk, unless the boat actually goes to Kings Landing. Now if the boat is actually going to Mereen and Dany, with Jaimie as a gift for the rightful Queen with a marriage offer from Trystane, that would make sense if you think Doran approved the hit on Myrcella. Bronn might have been bought off by the Martells, therefore Jaimie is really a prisoner with no help in sight. I suppose that Kevan might have gotten a raven from Jaimie announcing the arrangement that was made with Doran but Doran can always say the boat was lost in a storm and TYene and Nym might be sent to KIngs Landing to stall and cause problems just like they were in the books.

books!Jaime isn't a fighter anymore, show!Jaime looks capable enough of standing his ground against foes, and there's Broon by his side. Anything is possible in D & D's world.

[TheWinterHasCometh]

Delete this mods

[TheWinterHasCometh]

Hi there folks, first post here. I'm purely a show watcher and have avoided reading internet forums until now; however as I've heard that the show has either caught up with or overtaken the books in most respects, I feel that I'm now relatively safe from major spoilers.

Reading through some of the threads here it would seem that most people think that Ellaria acted of her own accord poisoning Myrcella, going against the wishes of Doran Martell. I'm not so sure though...

Perhaps Doran has realised that with everything that's happened in King's Landing recently (in other words, since Cersei has been calling the shots), it may not be a particularly good idea to marry his son and heir to an illegitimate child (of an incestuous relationship, no less) whose family are losing allies and support. Perhaps, seeing how his son was so hopelessly in love with her, he decided that killing her was the best option?

On first watching I assumed that Ellaria had defied him, but when I watched again I thought that the nod Doran gave to Ellaria just before she kissed Myrcella was significant. It seemed to be a "do it now" kind of nod!

So, what do you think? Am I reading too much into that nod? Is it likely that Doran ordered the poisoning?

...Or am I just being a bit of an idiot? :D (Don't be afraid to tell me if this is the case!)

I agree! This is my post from another thread:

after Doran says I wish you a safe journey home, he then looks at Ellaria and nods to her... she instantly approaches to Myrcella and kisses her. I now ask myself if it was done with Dorans consent? Then it would seem legit when in episode 9 Ellaria bend the knee... he did tell her: I dont believe in third chances. But question stays: why would he send Trystane with them if he planned to kill Myrcella? Maybe he will blame it on Ellaria and Snakes and tell to Iron Throne that 4 of them are outlaws and will be hunted down(I presume that they are leaving Dorne for some other mission that Doran gave them so it all will be convenient for him). Then Trystane will be out of harms way, especially for two reasons: Jaime gave his word to Doran that he will take Oberyns place in small council and second... boy have no clue about this plan and loved Myrcella for real. In this way, 1. he have some revenge for Elia, her childen and Oberyn and 2. his man on the place of power(what are his intentions for politics of KL we have yet to see). It may be out of character for book Doran... but when we see how they butchered other characters it can easily be truth. Personally, I can accept this outcome... everything is better then Ellaria going rouge and having no Dorans plan for revenge from books. But, knowing how simple D&D are, it is probably out of they reach to think of something like this :)

[ChrisSnow77]

I'm not sure what to think about show Doran, his plan and his motives.

In the book Doran was made out to be someone who looks as weak and soft as imaginable on the outside. He comes off as humble, weak, caring more about watching the children play than in the complicated politics of the realm. He is believed even by his own family to be like this. However you quickly realize that it's very much an act and that he is one of the most cunning people in Westeros.

In the show, Doran while he still can't stand because of gout, comes across as a very commanding leader. He doesn't appear to be soft or easy to manipulate. However he doesn't seem to have the inner cunning, or if he does, it's not apparent what his grand master plan is. If Myrcella was really killed on the way back to Kings Landing without his permission I don't see how it isn't disastrous for Dorne.