Am I alone in thinking Doran is in on the poisoning?

[Lord Reaper oOo]

I really like the idea of the ship going to Meereen.

Thats a plot I'd love to see unfold.

[jarl the climber]

I really like the idea of the ship going to Meereen.

Thats a plot I'd love to see unfold.

People seem divided over this, I might be wrong in my prediction about this being the case but Jaimie and Myrcella just struck me as being incredibly naive. They are surrounded by people that hate them and Jaimies only guy is a sellsword who is only loyal to coin and saving his own skin. Does killing Jaimies daughter in front of his eyes and sending him gift wrapped to the daughter of the king he famously killed seem like something they would do? I felt that Doran felt Jamies desperation and played him by telling him what he wanted to hear. They wanted the marriage, Trystane loved her, they would look the other way about the incest, Trystane would go and take Oberyns place on the Council(be a hostage), they would even spare Bronn. Then he gets on the boat and the axe falls just like Ned in the throne room. Still maybe the boat goes on to Kings Landing and Doran is an idiot.

[tseka]

Why would he put his son in danger with such a move?

[House Smallfolk]

I wasn't hot on the idea of them going to Meereen at first, but now it makes sense. The alternative is for the Dorne plot to be a complete waste. Jamie's life being in danger from Dany could be a nice replacement for his life being in danger from LSH. The interaction with Tyrion would certainly be interesting, with Jamie previously promising to kill Tyrion on sight for killing Tywin, but he'd probably be his only hope of survival too. Logically, the ship could be under Dorne control, so it would be easy to kill Myrcella and then immediately restrain Jamie. Of course, if that was the case, Doran might as well just have run a sword through Myrcella's heart or have Hotah chop off her head if he's planning on offing the witnesses (Jamie/Bronn) anyway.

In addition, I feel like they would have left us a hint of this direction if this was the case. Leave us with a cliffhanger similar to the one with LSH, since everything else had a cliffhanger. So while Meereen would be cool, I'd put money on KL.

[Morena]

I'm not sure what to think about show Doran, his plan and his motives.

In the book Doran was made out to be someone who looks as weak and soft as imaginable on the outside. He comes off as humble, weak, caring more about watching the children play than in the complicated politics of the realm. He is believed even by his own family to be like this. However you quickly realize that it's very much an act and that he is one of the most cunning people in Westeros.

In the show, Doran while he still can't stand because of gout, comes across as a very commanding leader. He doesn't appear to be soft or easy to manipulate. However he doesn't seem to have the inner cunning, or if he does, it's not apparent what his grand master plan is. If Myrcella was really killed on the way back to Kings Landing without his permission I don't see how it isn't disastrous for Dorne.

:agree:

I honestly think that out of all the characters in the show, Doran is the one who is the ultimate mystery because book Doran doesn't really match up to show Doran. You really have no idea what to expect from him. While I do think he is cunning and all, I don't know if I am completely sold on his involvement in the assassination. Myrcella's death is not going to go over well and I really don't think anyone, especially Cersei, is going to sit calmly and listen to this news and then listen as Doran explains he had nothing to do with it and that the Sand Snakes will be killed. There's no way she'll be in the right state of mind for that.

While Doran and Oberyn made it clear that little girls don't get hurt in Dorne, Cersei will have no problem with sending Trystane to Qyburn. If Trystane really is the only child of Doran in the show, then he wouldn't risk a move like that. He wouldn't risk sending his heir to the lion's den.

[LordPathera]

Yeah no.

It would make no sense for Doran to arrange Myrcella's death and put his only son and heir on the same boat that's bound for King's Landing.

Sorry, but the Dorne arc was just weak.

[Ludo Kressh]

I wasn't hot on the idea of them going to Meereen at first, but now it makes sense. The alternative is for the Dorne plot to be a complete waste. Jamie's life being in danger from Dany could be a nice replacement for his life being in danger from LSH. The interaction with Tyrion would certainly be interesting, with Jamie previously promising to kill Tyrion on sight for killing Tywin, but he'd probably be his only hope of survival too. Logically, the ship could be under Dorne control, so it would be easy to kill Myrcella and then immediately restrain Jamie. Of course, if that was the case, Doran might as well just have run a sword through Myrcella's heart or have Hotah chop off her head if he's planning on offing the witnesses (Jamie/Bronn) anyway.

In addition, I feel like they would have left us a hint of this direction if this was the case. Leave us with a cliffhanger similar to the one with LSH, since everything else had a cliffhanger. So while Meereen would be cool, I'd put money on KL.

Perhaps giving Dany a peace offering in the form of Jaime?(if the boat is under Dornish control...hmm, I wonder if it's the one Oberyn promised Cersei he'd give to Myrcella on her name day...damn, wouldn't that be cruel). The only issue I have is that Trystane seemed to really be in love with Mrycella, I can't see him going along with a plot that would endanger his bride to be.

Yeah, either they turn around and ask Doran some pointed questions or, and this seems more likely, they go to KL and Trystane becomes a hostage. And I doubt the Sand Snakes and Ellaria want Doran to show allegiance to Dany either; they want war, but honestly, if Doran finds out what happened, they're going to lose their heads.

[StarkofWinterfell]

At least there is still ShowQuentyn

[Ruin]

After watching that crazy ending...

Doran was in on the plan...the ship is suddenly joined by a large number of other ships. With all the chaos in King's Landing, Trys lands with the Golden Company, hired by Doran and they take city. If there's a Blackfyre angle, Mopatis gets off the ship and gives Trys a big fatherly hug. Look Margery, husband number four. Jaime and Bronn make a daring escape, and jetpack it to the Riverlands.

Or...if Doran wasn't in on it...perhaps the show was streamlining the Dornish story, and making Ellaria assume House Yronwood's possible role in the next book in facilitating Doran's assassination. Ellaria becomes the ruler of the Watergardens and Dorne. There would be an epic 3 on 1 fight between the Sand Snakes and Hotah. The fight would be a stalemate until Hotah gets an arrow to his face, WOOOOOO SARELLA! Ellaria gives the Fire and Blood speech, and reveals that her and Oberyn had a son, and his name is Quentyn.

I'd actually pay some serious cash-money to see my second suggestion on the show.

[Black Dragons]

I read that on wikia that Doran wants only peace and that he WAS NOT on it. That why he send only son and heir to King Lanning, why would he send only son to King Lannding where his brother and sisters and nicece and nephew as died? no body knows and only the dumb asses writers do.

[Black Dragons]

wait so trystane is still going to kings landing even though mrycella was murdered?

how does this even make sense?

The whole season 5 does NOT make any Sense. Trystane is still on that ship. Everyone have suggest that Jamie should around the ship and tell Doran what happen and have Ellaire's head cut off. But someone else have says that Jamie is going keep Mrycella' body in that cabin on until they reach the King Lannding and then take the Martell's boy hostage. They on Dorne's ship and only two them against the whole ship crew. The fact that Ellaire will throw Trystane under the bus like that does not any sense.

[Black Dragons]

I really like the idea of the ship going to Meereen.

Thats a plot I'd love to see unfold.

I agree with this!

[Black Dragons]

It does not really risk Trystane. Elaria showed she was not acting for Doran in front of Jamie. Elaria would take the fall and Doran would fein innocence. Trystane would be useless as a hostage against Elaria.

How I am going says this? remember the episode with Cersi when she was in control of King Lanning she says burn Dorne to ground if they hurt Mycrella (I said to the TV with what army?) she and others killed half of it with fighting the Stannis and the Starks. Now if Jamie hide the truth until they reach King Lanning will Cersi control herself not to kill Tyrstante kill on sight, but she not in charge any more Uncle Kevan is now, he have more sense not to have the heir of Dorne kill. But still Trystane is in lots of danger look happen to Kevan Lannister's younger sons.

[lakin1013]

Regarding the boat going to Mereen - that has my vote. The show is drawing near the conclusion, with only two seasons left (supposedly), and a constriction of plot lines and geographic location makes sense.

Consider if the ship goes to Mereen and if, for example, Sansa/Theon make for Castle Black.

Mereen - Dany, Tyrion, Dario, Jamie, Trystane, and Jorah in one location. We also get the story potential of Jamie needing Tyrion to save his life, the reverse of when Tyrion needed same.

Castle Black - Jon, Davos, Mel, Sansa, Theon, Brienne, and Pod in one location. Any number of things can happen here, including a resurrection, finding Rickon, and let's not forget the WWs.

The Dorne story was awful but Doran being complicit in Myrcella's death, then sending the ship to Mereen, is clever and smart and can redeem the Dorne plot.. If this is not what happens, the Dorne story remains stupid and pointless, at least imho, and it will not matter if Doran was in on the death of Myrcella or not.

[A Ghost of Someone]

I really like the idea of the ship going to Meereen.

Thats a plot I'd love to see unfold.

That would be interesting, the actor that plays Jaime was waiving a rubber duck around as a hint and maybe they are taking on that roll. Would it not be exciting to see Jaime, down below a throne, looking up at Dany and Tyrion beside her, him having killed her father and Bronn looking at Tyrion as if, "hey old buddy, help out a friend?". I do think Daario would not like Trystane one bit and Jorah, really sick of him at this point. He would slit Rickon and the rest of the Stark kids throats if he thought it would win brownie points for his "KHALESI", so, yeah, would love to see this plot twist.

[HMJ]

I also think the ship is going to Mereen. That makes the most sense (to me at least).

 

In light of this, I am thinking of the generally disliked line "... but you need a bad pussy" said to Bronn at the ships departure. It really stands out, I do not think it is just "poor writing", so I think it should mean something. Could this be a cue or remainder said to Bronn meaning that he will betray Jamie? Kind of "Lannisters sends their regards" said by Jamie to Roose Bolton before the Red Wedding. It did not make sense at the time, but clearly does in hindsight.

 

Assume, for instance, that the antidote given to Bronn in the prison was just a temporary one, and that he need additional doses, which he will only receive if he betrays Jamie. If so, could the "bad pussy" refer to the name of the antidote? Can anyone put a different meaning to "you need bad pussy" that I fail to see (for instance pussy meaning cat) that could mean "remember that your ass belongs to me now"?

 

(Short time Lurker, first time Poster...)

[Philpenn]

Interesting theory. Going to guess it was just a corny line, but who knows.

[Visceral Varys]

Something is going on with the youngest Sandsnake Talia (is that right?).

From the start it is obvious her sisters hold her in contempt.
She is the one with the antidote for Bronn but puts in a lot of effort to get his attention focused entirely on her. Again her sisters roll their eyes at her which tells me they are not in on whatever play she, Talia, is making.
When Bronn leaves the cell she establishes again that "connection" Who is the most beautiful woman in the world? Asked and answered.
Then the Sandslap fest where she bested her sister mentally and to me it showed she's ready to make her move, whatever it is.
At the docks, that horrible Bad Pussy line, ugh, but Bronn's look - that seemed to say he got the message or certainly on alert for some shit to go down.

Is she manipulating Bronn or is she reaching some sort of accord with him?
Something is up there, it wasn't just a horrible set of scenes, albeit clumsily done.

[tmug]

Thought about it once again overnight.

Sending Trystane to Meereen with Jaime just makes so much sense.

Her father's killer would be a logical gift to Dany.

And Trystane's failure could actually be more logical than Quentyn's, as he will find Tyrion governing the city instead of Daenerys (something Doran (or Trystane) could hardly have anticipated). So the Martell son would fail because of hideously bad luck, rather than sheer stupidity.

This may be why they decided to keep the Lannister brothers on good terms.

 

Last I heard, Jaime was about to snap Tyrion in two if he ever saw him again for killing their father and substantially weakening the Lannister's position in the game. 

 

I do agree however it would make more sense if the boat never goes to KL but to Mereen only to find Tyrion with 2 dragons in his possession. I surely hope Trystane will be frustrated to have missed Dany by a few months/weeks and then try to "tame" the dragons to do his father proud, only to be "Quentyn-ed" beyond recognition. 

 

D&D might have ruled out the disfiguring of Loras but disfiguring pretty boy Trystane may do instead. Also, it would be a good plot to set those 2 remaining dragons loose for the rest of the story.

[Rufiodies]

So first off, are we sure the poison used on Bronn, is the same as the one used on Myrcella? 

The poison used on both seemed to have similar effects but Myrcella seemed to be affected much quicker than Bronn, the onset was much more sudden.

It could be the ROA, aka being cut vs oral/sub-lingual,

it could be that Bronn, being the badass that he is, has a much stronger constitution and is able to withstand the poison without being completely ko'd like Myrcella was.  

It could be that Myrcella/Jamie moment was much more... emotional? than the Bronn/Tyrene moment. 

Another thing is, we don't really have an idea of the time that passed between the poisoning, and the onset of effects of each. 

Doran HAS to be in on it, after the whole 2nd chances, no 3rd chances speech, Oberyn's paramore must have known she'd be dead if she acted against Doran's wishes, yet she still took measures to ensure she wasn't killed by her own poison. Why do that only to be killed by Doran later on? 

Theoretical - Death by that particular poison is a particularly "bad way to go" and she'd rather face Doran's wrath

Theoretical - Doran is a pretty cunning guy, he knew despite his warning, what Ellaria would do, or that she would do ... well something. The fact that he allowed Ellaria and the Sand Snakes out of jail in order to see everyone off... Its pretty obvious, So now he gets the revenge he desires, while being able to honestly say that he had nothing to do with it.