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Crack pot theory: R + L = J + A?


rivers snow

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I like to believe that R + L = Danny and Brandon + Ashara Dayne = Jon to me that theory makes more sense.


After reading all the books multiple times now this theory makes more sense to me because R + L = J was always too simple.

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I like to believe that R + L = Danny and Brandon + Ashara Dayne = Jon to me that theory makes more sense.

After reading all the books multiple times now this theory makes more sense to me because R + L = J was always too simple.

Doesn't make sense, since Dany is born in Dragonstone and Lyanna was found in Dorne. How can that be.

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Trying the matemathic approach :



as many thread titles say...


R+L=J


J+A=T



if (R+L) = (J+A), J=T


(on the other hand if (J+A) = (T+A), A= zero, so Aegon is fake)


then...


(R+L) + (J+A) = J+T = T+T (or J+J but I see no JJ character)



Logically Tyrion Tanner (son of Lollys) is AAR (but as A = zero, AAR becomes R, so it may mean Tyrion Tanner is Rhaegar.



(sorry a bit out of topic, was just answering to the title)


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Have a look at these 2 links, see where I'm coming from.

http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1e361x/spoilers_all_meera_reed_more_than_meets_the_eyes/

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=meera+reed+jon+snow&biw=1517&bih=741&tbm=isch&imgil=ltIXjQ6fM_u9OM%253A%253BysJBvR0HQpjV4M%253Bhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.sffchronicles.com%25252Fthreads%25252F547401%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=ltIXjQ6fM_u9OM%253A%252CysJBvR0HQpjV4M%252C_&dpr=0.9&usg=__FW-ck6cTZc6cnD_InBRjpbOYJ1w%3D&ved=0CD0Qyjc&ei=C-eFVefmA4TpUs36goAJ#imgrc=ltIXjQ6fM_u9OM%253A%3BysJBvR0HQpjV4M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fimg.photobucket.com%252Falbums%252Fv286%252Falaroja%252Fgame-0f-thrones-s3-teaser-gallery-meera-reed_zps84a3ac30.jpg%3Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.sffchronicles.com%252Fthreads%252F547401%252F%3B972%3B475&usg=__FW-ck6cTZc6cnD_InBRjpbOYJ1w%3D

Yes, I have seen the reddit post, but I must agree with the eyes. Having said that, it's a magical world. Plus, people are born with different colour eyes than they parents due to random mutations. As to the resemblance of Meera and Jon - I bet 20% of northmen people have curly, black hair ;-)

Trying the matemathic approach :

as many thread titles say...

R+L=J

J+A=T

if (R+L) = (J+A), J=T

(on the other hand if (J+A) = (T+A), A= zero, so Aegon is fake)

then...

(R+L) + (J+A) = J+T = T+T (or J+J but I see no JJ character)

Logically Tyrion Tanner (son of Lollys) is AAR (but as A = zero, AAR becomes R, so it may mean Tyrion Tanner is Rhaegar.

(sorry a bit out of topic, was just answering to the title)

You have seriously lost me here with all these letters. is A - Aegon? AAR? wot? :D Tyrion Tanner a rhaegar?

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Interesting to think about, and as much as I'd like it to work, we must first attempt to poke as many holes in this theory as possible.

1) Why split them up? The different appearances could account for this decision, but

1.) Yes, they were split up because of appearance, namely Young Griff's Targaryen appearance.

2) How does (f)Aegon get out of the Tower of Love?

2.) Do you mean the Tower of Joy? Same way Jon would've. I assume that Ned brought him/them to Starfall along with Dawn, Arthur Dayne's sword.

3) If you want to say Vary's took him, well, why the hell doesn't Ned trust Varys when he gets to Kings Landing? If they conspired together to keep the kids a secret, you better bet Ned would look to Varys to help him and take his advice when he goes to become Hand.

3.) Neither Ned or Varys are aware that the other has a "secret Targ." Varys discovered Young Griff some time after he was born and didn't manage to learn about Jon.

4) Why does Vary's bother to tell his story of the "pisswater prince" to Tyrion? Once he is revealing his deception, might as well go all the way and reveal the twin as Jon. Who the hell is Tyrion going to tell?

4.) Rhaegar and Lyanna's marriage (if they were married) was never formally recognized, making Young Griff a bastard or at the very least of dubious legitimacy. It was decided that he would assume his older brother's (Elia's son Aegon's) identity. Young Griff believes he is who he says he is. Illyrio (and JonCon if he knows) wouldn't want to risk letting the secret get out to Aegon or anyone else for that matter.

5) GRRM has littered is books with hints regarding R+L=J, you'd think he would drop a few breadcrumbs about this. He doesn't like the deus ex machina method of storytelling true he likes cliffhangers, but he would rather kill a character than have them rescued at the last second.

5.) Aegon has little foreshadowing in the novels as it is. In regards to GRRM rather killing a character rather than having the rescued, this theory assumes that "Young Griff" Aegon is not the son of Elia, but of Lyanna.

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This sounds more like Days of Our Lives than ASoIaF.


I'd be disappointed if this entire series boiled down to a handful or misbegotten paternity tests.


R+L=J is only too obvious because people have been talking about it for a decade waiting for the books.




We're looking for Azor Ahai to save the day, not Maury Povich. :worried:


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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-u2gUM4Vvc



watch this series and tell me what you think about it, i have read books based on this theory 3 times and it makes more sense to me !





Doesn't make sense, since Dany is born in Dragonstone and Lyanna was found in Dorne. How can that be.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-u2gUM4Vvc



watch this series and tell me what you think about it, i have read books based on this theory 3 times and it makes more sense to me !


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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-u2gUM4Vvc

watch this series and tell me what you think about it, i have read books based on this theory 3 times and it makes more sense to me !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-u2gUM4Vvc

watch this series and tell me what you think about it, i have read books based on this theory 3 times and it makes more sense to me !

But how would Viserys end up with her? Why keep her parentage secret to her? It's not like she was a threat to his inheritance either way.

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But how would Viserys end up with her? Why keep her parentage secret to her? It's not like she was a threat to his inheritance either way.

oo but she actually was very much problem for viserys !

if you think about it, imagine R married L and if you remember the famous dance of the dragons a nasty civil war amongst targaryens it was problem with inheritence soooooo this would mean what? danny might have more claim to the throne then viserys, since R is heir to the throne and after R its Rs daughter or son in this case

Danny.

on the other hand viserys never really wanted to marry has because if he marrys her he wont get army so he agrees to sell her to dothraki.

Remember what arianna said in WOW chapter? how danny got her brother killed perhaps she thought her brother will get the thrones and he will remain with dothraki stinking like horse?

I know we are assuming alot but this theory is more complicated and very very political incase its true, danny needs to remember WHO SHE IS thats the dream she has been getting for so long, she has forgotten who she is.... maybe she needs to rememebr that R is her Father, also you need to look very carefully at the dream she got in Qarth... it points out that she is ice and fire means she is stark and targaryen....

and yes once again let me point it out, danny way always threat to Viserys rule, didnt you notice how he reacted and got mad everytime he saw danny taking control of dothraki? it was killing him within because he was always scared of dannys claim to the throne

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When Rhaegar died on the Trident, Aerys named Viserys his heir, not Aegon. Whether Aerys meant for Viserys to inherit ahead of Rhaegar's children or whether Aerys disinherited Rhaegar's children completely is not clear.



Birds flew and couriers raced to bear word of the victory at the Ruby Ford. When the news reached the Red Keep, it was said that Aerys cursed the Dornish, certain that Lewyn had betrayed Rhaegar. He sent his pregnant queen, Rhaella, and his younger son and new heir, Viserys, away to Dragonstone, but Princess Elia was forced to remain in King's Landing with Rhaegar's children as a hostage against Dorne. (AWoIaF)

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In regards to Viserys being angry at Daenerys' power in the Dothraki, that was jealousy. He resented her having more power and respect than he did.



In regards to Daenerys being reminded to "remember who she was," this is a reminder that Targaryens are conquerors, not peace-makers. "Dragons plant no trees."


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When Rhaegar died on the Trident, Aerys named Viserys his heir, not Aegon. Whether Aerys meant for Viserys to inherit ahead of Rhaegar's children or whether Aerys disinherited Rhaegar's children completely is not clear.

Birds flew and couriers raced to bear word of the victory at the Ruby Ford. When the news reached the Red Keep, it was said that Aerys cursed the Dornish, certain that Lewyn had betrayed Rhaegar. He sent his pregnant queen, Rhaella, and his younger son and new heir, Viserys, away to Dragonstone, but Princess Elia was forced to remain in King's Landing with Rhaegar's children as a hostage against Dorne. (AWoIaF)

it would not have matter who aerys considered his heir for simple reasons, he was considered MAD so whole realm was against him even his own son was upto something, maybe throw his father from throne and take his place, plus if you remember the great council of 101 AC?

Viserys I was choosen over all the other claimants?

and then you remember the dance? jhahaerys named his DAUGHTER his heir yet there was still a huge war that took out the dragons when

many lords considered his first born SON to be the true heir not even his brother demon.

So in the end it wouldnt have mattered what aerys wanted plus aerys himself was clueless about danny and what R was planning.

In regards to Viserys being angry at Daenerys' power in the Dothraki, that was jealousy. He resented her having more power and respect than he did.

In regards to Daenerys being reminded to "remember who she was," this is a reminder that Targaryens are conquerors, not peace-makers. "Dragons plant no trees."

once again you are taking the things written in books too easily, Targaryens were basically NEVER big conquerors, they were considered a small family from valayria, there were much bigger and powerfull families in valayria with much more blood magic and dragons, they were

even considered deserters and cowards by many in valayria (source: world of ice and fire).

Aegon was a clever man and USED his dragons and gave targaryens a name, when he was on dragonstone many lords from westeros didnt even worry when they saw him flew over westeros time to time before conquering westeros.

Once more thing, i also believe that danny has less to do with dragons hatching and more to do with the procedure she went through, i strongely believe it was the witch and blood sacrifise that happen when danny burned her with khal drogo and went it that hatched the dragons, it was considered a type of blood magic and danny didnt actually know what she was doing, it was the WITCH who basically did it.

In interview someone asked George if blood magic is needed for dragon hatching and he cleverely said he wont say much about this topic

he said alot about blood magic in his interviews but he wont say if blood magic is needed for hatching dragons when it was asked in regard to DANNY HATCHING the eggs but in world of ice and fire it is mentioned again and again that BLOOD MAGIC was the source of dragons hatching or binding in time of Valayria!!!

the dream is always related to the fact that danny sees the red door, hmmm which is explained in this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxR5qy-8UtU

watch it carefully, you will understand what i mean.

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I have always liked this theory and would love for it to be true but a basic flaw with this theory is that there's nothing in Ned's chapters that suggest Lyanna had twins and Ned would have known.



The only way this works is if Lemore is Ashara (which is massively crackpot in itself) and Ned handed the Aegon for her to raise. But I don't see it.


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I'm already familiar with all of Preston Jacobs videos. I've seen that video a few times already. While I do agree with some of his videos, I still disagree with R+L=D. It makes no sense for Ned to keep Jon's paternity a secret without that paternity being something that would put Jon in danger, like R+L. It just doesn't add up as to how Viserys would even obtain Daenerys as well as why he would keep her identity a secret from her (see below).






it would not have matter who aerys considered his heir for simple reasons, he was considered MAD so whole realm was against him even his own son was upto something, maybe throw his father from throne and take his place, plus if you remember the great council of 101 AC?


Viserys I was choosen over all the other claimants?


and then you remember the dance? jhahaerys named his DAUGHTER his heir yet there was still a huge war that took out the dragons when


many lords considered his first born SON to be the true heir not even his brother demon.



So in the end it wouldnt have mattered what aerys wanted plus aerys himself was clueless about danny and what R was planning.



<snip>





But Aerys was still the king at that time. If Aerys named Viserys the heir, Viserys was his heir. New children being born to Aerys or Rhaegar do not change that inheritance. Even if (hypothetically) Viserys wasn't named heir, females were barred from inheriting the throne after the Dance of the Dragons. A female could inherit if and only if all male claimants were extinguished.



Yes, Viserys I was chosen over all other claimants. Viserys (not Jaehaerys - Jaehaerys was Viserys' grandfather) named his daughter heir. The issue with inheritance between Rhaenyra and Aegon II was the conflict over whether a first born child or a firstborn son should inherit. Divided political factions at court had a great deal to do with the start of the war as well, if in fact they were not the true reason behind the civil war in the first place.


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I have always liked this theory and would love for it to be true but a basic flaw with this theory is that there's nothing in Ned's chapters that suggest Lyanna had twins and Ned would have known.

The only way this works is if Lemore is Ashara (which is massively crackpot in itself) and Ned handed the Aegon for her to raise. But I don't see it.

No, that's not necessary. She need only be involved in some way in how Illyrio and Varys got Young Griff.

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No, that's not necessary. She need only be involved in some way in how Illyrio and Varys got Young Griff.

True enough although if Ashara is alive and this theory is true that's the natural assumption.

But that begs the question, why would Ashara go to Varys and Illyrio? I can't think of a motive there.

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once again you are taking the things written in books too easily, Targaryens were basically NEVER big conquerors, they were considered a small family from valayria, there were much bigger and powerfull families in valayria with much more blood magic and dragons, they were

even considered deserters and cowards by many in valayria (source: world of ice and fire).

Aegon was a clever man and USED his dragons and gave targaryens a name, when he was on dragonstone many lords from westeros didnt even worry when they saw him flew over westeros time to time before conquering westeros.

Once more thing, i also believe that danny has less to do with dragons hatching and more to do with the procedure she went through, i strongely believe it was the witch and blood sacrifise that happen when danny burned her with khal drogo and went it that hatched the dragons, it was considered a type of blood magic and danny didnt actually know what she was doing, it was the WITCH who basically did it.

In interview someone asked George if blood magic is needed for dragon hatching and he cleverely said he wont say much about this topic

he said alot about blood magic in his interviews but he wont say if blood magic is needed for hatching dragons when it was asked in regard to DANNY HATCHING the eggs but in world of ice and fire it is mentioned again and again that BLOOD MAGIC was the source of dragons hatching or binding in time of Valayria!!!

the dream is always related to the fact that danny sees the red door, hmmm which is explained in this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxR5qy-8UtU

watch it carefully, you will understand what i mean.

As to the Targs never be a conquerors- that's a little bit unfair. Yes, they were a minor Valyrian family, but it seems well respected. ALL the Valyrians (dragonlords) considered to be conquerors, which is true. Targs are Valyrians, thus, conquerors. Additionally, we do not know whether their family took part in other conquering wars in Essos (like with Rhoynish), I presume they did, being a part of Valyrian country and being dragonlords themselves. By the way, I didn't have an impression that Targs leaving Valyria were considered as cowards. I mean why would Valyrians think they were cowards? What were they afraid of? In the book it said something like "Suddenly a Valyrian dragonlord family sold all their property and left the country to settle down in another place. Because of a dream." Moreover, the author of WoIaF history book couldn't possibly know the details - most of those history recollections seem to be suggestions rather than facts.

Once again, there is a little piece of a strange fact - it is said that a part of dragon blood is need to tame the dragon, but it seems that it is not that easy (according to the WoIaF book). It is more about daring and the person's temper, rather than only dragon's blood. If it was only for dragon blood - half of Lys could be dragon riders.

As to the Blood Magic, I agree. Not mentioning that in some interview GRRM said that what Dany did "was one time thing", something like "she didn't know what exactly she was doing but did it" (don't ask for the link because I don't have one- it was years ago).

And according to the history book, the dragons used to hatch without any blood magic. They used to put an egg into the cradle and it hatched. It was mentioned in the Dance with Dragons part of history. Rhaenyra's boys were gossiped to be Strong's bastards and Alicent's court gossiped that they were no true Targs, but their eggs hatched, all of them. Thus, they were considered to be of dragon's blood (which is stupid in the first place because no matter who their father was, their mother still was Rhaenyra). I mean no Blood Magic there: the eggs just hatched. There is a possibility that the maesters do not tell some facts on purpose or may be they simply don't know, thus, the book is not that reliable.

The idea that R+L=fA+J is an interesting one. Lemore being Ashara fits perfectly here. It could be another way: Jon being son of Brandon/Ned and Ashara and fA being son of R+L, which makes fA and Jon cousins, not twins. Ned took a babe with the sword to Starfall and they've decided to switch the babies. That is also a crack pot.

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As to the Targs never be a conquerors- that's a little bit unfair. Yes, they were a minor Valyrian family, but it seems well respected. ALL the Valyrians (dragonlords) considered to be conquerors, which is true. Targs are Valyrians, thus, conquerors. Additionally, we do not know whether their family took part in other conquering wars in Essos (like with Rhoynish), I presume they did, being a part of Valyrian country and being dragonlords themselves. By the way, I didn't have an impression that Targs leaving Valyria were considered as cowards. I mean why would Valyrians think they were cowards? What were they afraid of? In the book it said something like "Suddenly a Valyrian dragonlord family sold all their property and left the country to settle down in another place. Because of a dream." Moreover, the author of WoIaF history book couldn't possibly know the details - most of those history recollections seem to be suggestions rather than facts.

Once again, there is a little piece of a strange fact - it is said that a part of dragon blood is need to tame the dragon, but it seems that it is not that easy (according to the WoIaF book). It is more about daring and the person's temper, rather than only dragon's blood. If it was only for dragon blood - half of Lys could be dragon riders.

As to the Blood Magic, I agree. Not mentioning that in some interview GRRM said that what Dany did "was one time thing", something like "she didn't know what exactly she was doing but did it" (don't ask for the link because I don't have one- it was years ago).

And according to the history book, the dragons used to hatch without any blood magic. They used to put an egg into the cradle and it hatched. It was mentioned in the Dance with Dragons part of history. Rhaenyra's boys were gossiped to be Strong's bastards and Alicent's court gossiped that they were no true Targs, but their eggs hatched, all of them. Thus, they were considered to be of dragon's blood (which is stupid in the first place because no matter who their father was, their mother still was Rhaenyra). I mean no Blood Magic there: the eggs just hatched. There is a possibility that the maesters do not tell some facts on purpose or may be they simply don't know, thus, the book is not that reliable.

The idea that R+L=fA+J is an interesting one. Lemore being Ashara fits perfectly here. It could be another way: Jon being son of Brandon/Ned and Ashara and fA being son of R+L, which makes fA and Jon cousins, not twins. Ned took a babe with the sword to Starfall and they've decided to switch the babies. That is also a crack pot.

i never actually said they werent conquerors i said BIG conquerors which means, they werent that much known before doom since there were many bigger families, and G R R MARTIN said that Valayrian society was a like Roman Society where they freehold was controlled by powerful families, so Targs didnt really have to take part in any war but offcourse you are right and i agree with you it didnt mean that they didnt take part in wars, maybe they have maybe they didnt, we dont know i am just saying what valayrians thought about them and how they were much known before doom.

AND YES VALAYRIANS didnt really thought very highly of them as mentioned here

"within its shining walls, two score rival houses vied for power and glory in court and counncil, rising and falling in an endless sabtle, oft savage struggle for dominance. The Targaryens were far from most powerful of the dragonlords and their rivals saw their flight to dragonstone as an act of surrender as cowardice."

once again i said VALAYRIANS thought of them that way not me personally, i think they were clever and thats why they survived.

So coming back to the point once again

i think personally targs or valayrians they happen to get their hands of dragons and they were the first one to properly tame them but they obviously didnt have so called dragonblood in them, offcourse when it comes to MAGIC it exists in many different races of men in the world of ice and fire like wildlings and northmen have warging powers etc but it doest mean warging or green seeing is only property of first men or northmen or the children, we now know that 1 eyed raven isnt northmen or stark or wildling he happens to have so called dragonblood in him yet he is one of the most powerfull warg or greenseer in the world.

What i am trying to say here is that, targs arent more special then lets say starks, they are powerfull because they cracked the code of taming the dragon using magic but it is also known that this taming and controlling of dragon can happen without using any blood magic aswell, there is this girl ( she could be a targ bastard but it isnt mentioned anywhere) who happens to ride a dragon and was a wonder to many people again it is mentioned in WOIAF book. She flew away in the end with her dragon.

i am just saying i like the idea that the story could be that cleverly written and would make a whole lot of sense to me if danny is indeed

targ and stark both where JON BEING bastard of brandon.

It will make a whole lot sense to me when it comes to the dreams danny has been having and the thing she needs to remember is that

she isnt what her brother told her she is daughter of R who thought he would father a child a saviour, it makes danny more powerful then we thought because R was no fool or mad like his father.

Also the thing with lemo trees it is very convincing to me because in books martin on many different places left these clues like about lemons coming from dorne lemons coming from dorne and suddenly lemon trees in dannys fever dream and she needs to remember and red door and all so if we concentrate it makes much more sense to me.

I know many ppl say R + L = J became so obvious because we know it for so long i agree but fact it i managed to figure it out

before i knew many other people did :D it was too obvious to me that NED isnt father of Jon.

You could also be right but i believe and i strongely believ FA is this fake dragon danny dreamt about,

I believe 3 heads of dragon could very much be Tyrion danny and jon, doesnt mean JON HAS to have TARG blood to ride dragon.

He just has to be a very powerfull warg.

Last point you mentioned that they gave hatchlings to targ babys and thats how they bounded but this fact is mentioned by maesters and remember from F O C we know it is believed that maesters are the ones behind killing off all the dragons, they hide alot more information then we believe, they dont like magic, they despise it because it makes thing uncertain for them.

SO IT IS POSSIBLE they are hiding exactly how dragons bounded with targ kids and once again it doesnt have to involve BLOOD MAGIC

i believe it just happend and needed some sort of magic not BLOOD MAGIC and that magic or charm or what ever you want to call them could be given to targs for generations through food, drinks or many other ways and thats how they could tame dragons or it is just happens naturally because of there close proximity to dragons for so long....

in the end TARGS arent so special that they are the ONLY ones with power to control dragons, their blood isnt that special.

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