Nights Kings Queen Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I had a feeling you were going to ask me that -- here is the . Enjoy -- and let me know what you think.I like it! Preston Jacobs does seem to be catching onto something, I do think some of the people on this forum are overly harsh on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I agree with the bolded 100% and just wanted to say this was absolutely brilliant.I really love love how you tied the foreshadowing of Jon's role with the Others.If we look at all the other realm inhabitants that include the Children,Giants they have a voice(though not for the benefit of all).Someone that speaks for them "ice" has no voice,no one that we know that acts as that role or is in it for the benefit of all.I think it is a role that Jon will play for as you put it, but its something that will win him no glory,praise;his name will probably be a cursed name.An unsung hero who will most likely be looked at as a villain. Finally something we might agree on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceFire125 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I agree with the bolded 100% and just wanted to say this was absolutely brilliant.I really love love how you tied the foreshadowing of Jon's role with the Others.If we look at all the other realm inhabitants that include the Children,Giants they have a voice(though not for the benefit of all).Someone that speaks for them "ice" has no voice,no one that we know that acts as that role or is in it for the benefit of all.I think it is a role that Jon will play for as you put it, but its something that will win him no glory,praise;his name will probably be a cursed name.An unsung hero who will most likely be looked at as a villain. "The ending will be bittersweet" - Martin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnmaskedLurker Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I like it! Preston Jacobs does seem to be catching onto something, I do think some of the people on this forum are overly harsh on him. Some of his other theories are a bit wacky -- so some of the harshness may be deserved -- but that particular post seemed pretty persuasive to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfmaid7 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Finally something we might agree on. Hey we can't and won't be in disgreement all the time. :thumbsup: I think all the forshadowing is there for him with respect to this.Its kind of a left-hand path analogy with Jon.He has the wolf,the crow all the symbols associated with the Morrigan and her ways whille seemingly dark is vital to the survival of the land.Jon has the propensity to do the right thing eventhough it doesn't seem that way to others.Even if no one gets it or achknowledges it in the end because they can't see the bigger picture.Let Sam Tarly know atlease,give us that. "The ending will be bittersweet" - Martin. Word!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nights Kings Queen Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Some of his other theories are a bit wacky -- so some of the harshness may be deserved -- but that particular post seemed pretty persuasive to me.Yeah a lot are, have to agree on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Twinslayer Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 As far as board etiquette goes, I agree with Corbon's reference in the last thread to the rule against posting show-spoilers in the General forum. Not everyone has seen all of the most reason season of the show yet. On a different note: Perhaps he might wrench control over Drogon from Dany? Why else point out that he has the strongest warging potential ever? If his warging ability served only to his survival in Ghost, the superstrength would be excessive.Is it said that Jon has the strongest warging potential ever? I thought the only reference to Jon's abilities came from Varamyr in ADWD, who said that he (Varamyr) could have taken Ghost away from Jon and that "The gift was strong in Snow, but the youth was untaught, still fighting his nature when he should have gloried in it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Hey we can't and won't be in disgreement all the time. :thumbsup: I think all the forshadowing is there for him with respect to this.Its kind of a left-hand path analogy with Jon.He has the wolf,the crow all the symbols associated with the Morrigan and her ways whille seemingly dark is vital to the survival of the land.Jon has the propensity to do the right thing eventhough it doesn't seem that way to others.Even if no one gets it or achknowledges it in the end because they can't see the bigger picture.Let Sam Tarly know atlease,give us that. Word!!! Funny that you mention Morrigan because that's also a character from a fandom loosely inspired by ASOIAF - DragonAge:Origins. Here, the king's secret bastard reluctantly claims the throne to unite the land against the Blight (the local version of ancient evil returning) but eventually sacrifices his life to secure the victory because he feels that's what it takes to be king. And, he also happens to be a member of an ancient order who protect the, eh, realms of men against the Blight no matter the cost. - So, that's another path I can see for Jon, and it would be fun if the authors of the game actually had the right gut feeling about the outcome. - But I'm afraid I must insist on the linguistics :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sly Wren Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Funny that you mention Morrigan because that's also a character from a fandom loosely inspired by ASOIAF - DragonAge:Origins. Here, the king's secret bastard reluctantly claims the throne to unite the land against the Blight (the local version of ancient evil returning) but eventually sacrifices his life to secure the victory because he feels that's what it takes to be king. And, he also happens to be a member of an ancient order who protect the, eh, realms of men against the Blight no matter the cost. - So, that's another path I can see for Jon, and it would be fun if the authors of the game actually had the right gut feeling about the outcome. I like this--even though I must admit I don't like the idea of anyone having to sacrifice themselves--pretty sure Father Christmas won't be giving me that. But there's at least some sacrificial type imagery around Jon--Ghost's looking like a weirwood, his being the one "sent" to the Wall. The fact that he's willing to risk so much to find a balance--can see his being one of the central sacrifices in the story and few if any ever find out. Some sacrifice imagery around Lyanna, too. Makes me even more eager to find out what was in the prophesy--was Jon "intended" to be a sort of sacrifice all along? Not "kill baby on altar" sacrifice, but the one who would have to give up everything to save others? Is that maybe why Lyanna is crying tears of blood in the crypts in Ned's dream? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Weirgaryen Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Funny that you mention Morrigan because that's also a character from a fandom loosely inspired by ASOIAF - DragonAge:Origins. Here, the king's secret bastard reluctantly claims the throne to unite the land against the Blight (the local version of ancient evil returning) but eventually sacrifices his life to secure the victory because he feels that's what it takes to be king. And, he also happens to be a member of an ancient order who protect the, eh, realms of men against the Blight no matter the cost. - So, that's another path I can see for Jon, and it would be fun if the authors of the game actually had the right gut feeling about the outcome. - But I'm afraid I must insist on the linguistics :-) That's all been foreshadowed here: "Free, " the raven muttered. "Corn. King. "ADwD 39 Jon VIII eta: ... and here again: He rose and dressed in darkness, as Mormont's raven muttered across the room. "Corn, " the bird said, and, "King, " and, "Snow, Jon Snow, Jon Snow. " That was queer. The bird had never said his full name before, as best Jon could recall.ADwD 58 Jon XII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 That's all been foreshadowed here:ADwD 39 Jon VIII eta: ... and here again: ADwD 58 Jon XIIHonestly, I must admit that ever since Mass Effect, I hate the ultimate sacrifice endings. Is it bad to wish for a way out, a loop to that hole, so that Jon could happily live ever after? :bawl: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 On a different note: Is it said that Jon has the strongest warging potential ever? I thought the only reference to Jon's abilities came from Varamyr in ADWD, who said that he (Varamyr) could have taken Ghost away from Jon and that "The gift was strong in Snow, but the youth was untaught, still fighting his nature when he should have gloried in it."Wouldn't Bloodraven be a stronger skinchanger? And Bran, due to his large amount of practise? And even Arys, due to the distance she's able to do it over...The gift seems strong in Jon, but has he ever warged Ghost on purpose yet? Some sacrifice imagery around Lyanna, too. Makes me even more eager to find out what was in the prophesy--was Jon "intended" to be a sort of sacrifice all along? Not "kill baby on altar" sacrifice, but the one who would have to give up everything to save others? Is that maybe why Lyanna is crying tears of blood in the crypts in Ned's dream?Very interesting thought.. A question though. Would that require Rhaegar having changed his mind about the identity of the Promised Prince? Or could it be that Lyanna, knowing Jon is the only son left, realised he would most likely fit the prophecy, hence her tears? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Wouldn't Bloodraven be a stronger skinchanger? And Bran, due to his large amount of practise? And even Arys, due to the distance she's able to do it over...The gift seems strong in Jon, but has he ever warged Ghost on purpose yet? I have always thought the same thing. But it is interesting that Jon has a wolf and a talking crow following him around and he is not even trying to warg either of them. Imagine if he tried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Honestly, I must admit that ever since Mass Effect, I hate the ultimate sacrifice endings. Is it bad to wish for a way out, a loop to that hole, so that Jon could happily live ever after? :bawl: Dany too!!!!! Can't she just find her a house with a red door and be happy and peaceful with some guy she likes to bang? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfmaid7 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Funny that you mention Morrigan because that's also a character from a fandom loosely inspired by ASOIAF - DragonAge:Origins. Here, the king's secret bastard reluctantly claims the throne to unite the land against the Blight (the local version of ancient evil returning) but eventually sacrifices his life to secure the victory because he feels that's what it takes to be king. And, he also happens to be a member of an ancient order who protect the, eh, realms of men against the Blight no matter the cost. - So, that's another path I can see for Jon, and it would be fun if the authors of the game actually had the right gut feeling about the outcome. - But I'm afraid I must insist on the linguistics :-)I actually agree with this, with the caveat that the iron throne isn't the only throne to sit.Re: Bran and Bloodraven also sit thrones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Weirgaryen Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Honestly, I must admit that ever since Mass Effect, I hate the ultimate sacrifice endings. Is it bad to wish for a way out, a loop to that hole, so that Jon could happily live ever after? :bawl: Don't know the mass effect, but dislike the idea of any human sacrifice, including the hero's self-sacrifice.And I am not going to mention captain future because that would be just mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfmaid7 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 That's all been foreshadowed here:ADwD 39 Jon VIII eta: ... and here again: ADwD 58 Jon XIIYeah that "Corn King" reference to Jon is very telling and reaffirms that his path may end in him sacrificing himself to save the land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfmaid7 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Don't know the mass effect, but dislike the idea of any human sacrifice, including the hero's self-sacrifice.And I am not going to mention captain future because that would be just mean.On the bright side the sacrifice need not be a literal death. So there's that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Darry Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 In Dance 1.0, Targaryens and their dragons die. So what does this mean? I believe the war for Dawn will happen before Dance 2.0. The 3 that will mount Dany's dragon for the fight for Dawn will be, Dany-Drogon, Tyrion-Viserion, fAegon-Rhaegal. And Jon?... not yet. There will be a space of time that Martin must fulfilled Jon's foreshadowing with the Others (we need to erase the imagery/concept we have from the show for this). Benjen Stark emerged from the shelter he shared with his nephew. “There you are. Jon, damn it, don’t go off like that by yourself. I thought the Others had gotten you.” “Your lordship knows best, I am sure. Might I ask about these corpses in the ice cells? They make the men uneasy. And to keep them under guard? Surely that is a waste of two good men, unless you fear that they …” “… will rise? I pray they do.” Septon Cellador paled. “Seven save us.” Wine dribbled down his chin in a red line. “Lord Commander, wights are monstrous, unnatural creatures. Abominations before the eyes of the gods. You … you cannot mean to try to talk with them?” “Can they talk?” asked Jon Snow. “I think not, but I cannot claim to know. Monsters they may be, but they were men before they died. How much remains? The one I slew was intent on killing Lord Commander Mormont. Plainly it remembered who he was and where to find him.” ... “My lord father used to tell me that a man must know his enemies. We understand little of the wights and less about the Others. We need to learn.” Ser Patrek smiled. “Tell me, Lord Commander, should the Others turn up, do you plan to offer hospitality to them as well?” The fight for dawn is to fight for another truce, another treaty. Jon will learn the true purpose and will find that they are not evil. The Last Hero/AA, did not win the battle for dawn, it is the story made-up by humanity to explain that they survived, thus they have won. The true story was that, he was able to attain a truce, an armistice (think North Korea and South Korea, still technically at war with each other). This will go in the narrative as Jon's ultimate conflict with himself. You see, the 3 heads of the dragon is and will be against him, they do not know what Jon has learned about the Others, and he must stop them so that the armistice he had finish forging with the Others will stay in effect. Humanity is on the verge of destroying the Others with Fire and Blood. His attempt to dissuade humanity to stop, failed. This is where Jon fulfills one of his big purpose, his SONG of ICE and FIRE. He has to fight humanity to save the Others. We go back to Jon's scene with Gilly: “A mother can’t leave her son, or else she’s cursed forever. Not a son. We saved him, Sam and me. Please. Please, m’lord. We saved him from the cold.” “Men say that freezing to death is almost peaceful. Fire, though … do you see the candle, Gilly?” She looked at the flame. “Yes.” “Touch it. Put your hand over the flame.” Her big brown eyes grew bigger still. She did not move. “Do it.” Kill the boy. “Now.” Trembling, the girl reached out her hand, held it well above the flickering candle flame. “Down. Let it kiss you.” Gilly lowered her hand. An inch. Another. When the flame licked her flesh, she snatched her hand back and began to sob. “Fire is a cruel way to die. Dalla died to give this child life, but you have nourished him, cherished him. You saved your own boy from the ice. Now save hers from the fire.” Jon cannot allow FIRE to overcome ICE. He will play as the true protector of the realm... for all. Ok, this will be a stupid question, but I would really like to understand... Jon is more associated with Ice and he also seems to prefer ice, so if he becomes a balance ambassador between Others and humanity in a way you predict where does the importance of his Targ blood and R+L=J kick in? He already prefers ice and if he will learn to appreciate Others, how will he represent the fire part? Why would he or us care about the Targ part of him? How can you be a song of fire (and ice) if you mostly appreciate and identify with ice? Are Dany and the rest of the fire team going to listen to him because he is their long lost relative, will he be able to bind dragons to his will, will he want to preserve both fire and ice…(or is it all about him sleeping with Arya without guilt :))? And were does humanity stand in this battle? And where does Bran stand? While we are at this topic there is a part I never understood -We have Others on one side and 3 heads of the dragon on the other side. Others are immune to cold and ice and they are probably less human than Targs or Starks and they are associated with ice. And then we have Targs who are more or less human (or even 100% human), who have been 'living with humans' for at least 5000 years, they are not immune to fire, but they still represent the other side of the spectrum-fire. Why are they on the other side of the spectrum and how? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sly Wren Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 On the bright side the sacrifice need not be a literal death. So there's that. So--back to bittersweet. Yup. Still am wondering how much or little Lyanna might have known about all this. Some of the images with her at least suggest she knew something . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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