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Rant and Rave Without Repercussion 3 (Book Spoilers)


Veltigar

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I, for once, still cannot understand why the need to cut the simple minor fact that Doran and Oberyn's mother was the ruler.

I mean, I get it. They wanted Myrcella to be married to the Heir because DRAMA!, so Arianne and Quentyn had to go, but they could have said that Myrcella wouldn't be just some consort but she could have political voice in Dorne. Oberyn could have said so to Cersei after her "everybody hurt little girls". "We don't. My own mother was the ruler of Dorne. Myrcella will be our Princess one day, and her voice will be heard as was Nymeria's and my own mother's".

But no. Myrcella was going to be just another "wife". She was conceived as some pretty girly teen who hates sweating and is all about the pink. Aweful. Remember when Lysa told Sansa she should always let Sweetrobin to win? Well, Trystane is probably letting Myrcella win, or she wins for real. There are no those idiotic pretensions in Dorne.

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I was pondering the show's butchering of the Dorne stuff and realized that I don't JUST hate it because what they replaced it with was crap. Both the books and the show go out of their way to show that the lives of women in Westeros suck. They have no real power (or at least direct power) and are constantly being used in the "games" of men. BUT, the different is that the book then gives us Dorne, where things are a bit different. It has a much more gender-neutral succession process. By removing Arianne and her plot, the show completely undercuts that and makes it all about "wise" Doran dealing with the "crazy bloodthirsty women." And I hate that as well.

Definitely. It's a major theme of AFFC that we see much more female oriented perspective of Westeros, but D&D don't do themes do they!

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Yeah, they sure did. She didn't cup Jon's cheek, and say she was glad to see a proper castle before she died. Too tender a moment for them. Ugh.

It's more than that. Looks like she forgot her one mission in life was survive and cross the Wall with her people to escape. It was all about how she hated Jon Snow.

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I, for once, still cannot understand why the need to cut the simple minor fact that Doran and Oberyn's mother was the ruler.

I mean, I get it. They wanted Myrcella to be married to the Heir because DRAMA!, so Arianne and Quentyn had to go, but they could have said that Myrcella wouldn't be just some consort but she could have political voice in Dorne. Oberyn could have said so to Cersei after her "everybody hurt little girls". "We don't. My own mother was the ruler of Dorne. Myrcella will be our Princess one day, and her voice will be heard as was Nymeria's and my own mother's".

But no. Myrcella was going to be just another "wife". She was conceived as some pretty girly teen who hates sweating and is all about the pink. Aweful. Remember when Lysa told Sansa she should always let Sweetrobin to win? Well, Trystane is probably letting Myrcella win, or she wins for real. There are no those idiotic pretensions in Dorne.

:agree:

And reading that I realized: they turned Dorne into another place that services Carol's story and character through Myrcella and Larry. They literally couldn't make it about anything other than the Lannisters (also evident in Doran's apparent support for Tommen and the Lannisters and not Dany, WTF?).

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It's more than that. Looks like she forgot her one mission in life was survive and cross the Wall with her people to escape. It was all about how she hated Jon Snow.

Yeah and fought along side the Thenns and killed a lot of innocent Northern Peasants in the process. Thus, we get Olly as a repercussion.

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It's more than that. Looks like she forgot her one mission in life was survive and cross the Wall with her people to escape. It was all about how she hated Jon Snow.

It was also about them seeing the good in each others' worlds. The castle was about that, and he admired her strength and courage. We got that in the scene GRRM wrote, they were close to being Jon and Ygritte there.

Just saw it again, about 4:10:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-x4DK-Qg5o

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I, for once, still cannot understand why the need to cut the simple minor fact that Doran and Oberyn's mother was the ruler.

I mean, I get it. They wanted Myrcella to be married to the Heir because DRAMA!, so Arianne and Quentyn had to go, but they could have said that Myrcella wouldn't be just some consort but she could have political voice in Dorne. Oberyn could have said so to Cersei after her "everybody hurt little girls". "We don't. My own mother was the ruler of Dorne. Myrcella will be our Princess one day, and her voice will be heard as was Nymeria's and my own mother's".

But no. Myrcella was going to be just another "wife". She was conceived as some pretty girly teen who hates sweating and is all about the pink. Aweful. Remember when Lysa told Sansa she should always let Sweetrobin to win? Well, Trystane is probably letting Myrcella win, or she wins for real. There are no those idiotic pretensions in Dorne.

Looking back on the exclusion of Oberyn's mother, and Joanna Lannniser for the that matter, planning marriages for their children while one ruled Dorne and the other ruled Tywin Lannister should have been a clue that we wouldn't get Arianne and the truth of Dorne. Still, I didn't quite think that ALL we would get is the Sex of Porne and the fact that wimins' power lies in their 'bad pussy,' and not the fact of primogeniture laws giving them the chance at more. No, we can't have that touch of equality, and maybe what could pass for a bit of modernity, but we do get.......the PC correctness of HOMOPHOBIA BAD and RELIGION EVIL!! In all honesty, with 'bad pussy' of Porne instead of primogeniture......we should never be surprised at anything that D&D give us again.

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:agree:

And reading that I realized: they turned Dorne into another place that services Carol's story and character through Myrcella and Larry. They literally couldn't make it about anything other than the Lannisters (also evident in Doran's apparent support for Tommen and the Lannisters and not Dany, WTF?).

This is a really good point that I hadn't considered. Cersei is such a fascinating character and I feel like they stripped away all that made her fascinating and complex on the show.

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:agree:

And reading that I realized: they turned Dorne into another place that services Carol's story and character through Myrcella and Larry. They literally couldn't make it about anything other than the Lannisters (also evident in Doran's apparent support for Tommen and the Lannisters and not Dany, WTF?).

Very true. Show!Dorne really is just a part of the Lannister story. It serves no other purpose.

I have to wonder whether Alexander Siddig was aware how it would play out when he signed up for it.

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Very true. Show!Dorne really is just a part of the Lannister story. It serves no other purpose.

I have to wonder whether Alexander Siddig was aware how it would play out when he signed up for it.

We know the answer to this, right? Or we can make a pretty good guess.

I can't get past all these wonderful actors getting fuck all to work with. And yes, these are all minor-ish characters but very interesting and rich and layered ones nonetheless.

I think the Ds like having these respected names on the billboard but don't really care about the characters at all. They'll give Olly, bad pussy, a game of slapsies and many other idiocies an amount of screen time that wonderful actors such as Siddig, Lesser, Pryce, Hinds, and others never got. Only exceptions are Tywin, but he's who Benioff wants to be when he grows up, and Dillane who got more screen time than the others but had his character butchered beyond recognition.

So, older renowned actors are needed to lend credibility, but screen time goes to young foxy dornish babes.

Is this some sort of ageism? << on top of everything else.

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We know the answer to this, right? Or we can make a pretty good guess.

I can't get past all these wonderful actors getting fuck all to work with. And yes, these are all minor-ish characters but very interesting and rich and layered ones nonetheless.

I think the Ds like having these respected names on the billboard but don't really care about the characters at all. They'll give Olly, bad pussy, a game of slapsies and many other idiocies an amount of screen time that wonderful actors such as Siddig, Lesser, Pryce, Hinds, and others never got. Only exceptions are Tywin, but he's who Benioff wants to be when he grows up, and Dillane who got more screen time than the others but had his character butchered beyond recognition.

So, older renowned actors are needed to lend credibility, but screen time goes to young foxy dornish babes.

Is this some sort of ageism? << on top of everything else.

Yes, we can make a pretty good guess. But he must surely have at least known something positive about the role!

Re. Ageism, I think it might be more that they're making sure they pander to what they think their audience wants. There's that and then there's their "creative" process and that seems to be how they operate.

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^^ Yeah, I agree. I do think other things do factor in as well, chief among them incompetence inexperience. I also do think older looking dude x foxy tarty babe is as much their thing as it is the audience's. :dunno:


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I really don't get the sense that House Lannister is any danger following the death of Tywin on the show. A number of machinations were occurring testing Lannister resolve and strength following Tywin's death in SoS. They are non-existent in GOT. Where the hell is all the damn intrigue?!!!!!


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We know the answer to this, right? Or we can make a pretty good guess.

I can't get past all these wonderful actors getting fuck all to work with. And yes, these are all minor-ish characters but very interesting and rich and layered ones nonetheless.

I think the Ds like having these respected names on the billboard but don't really care about the characters at all. They'll give Olly, bad pussy, a game of slapsies and many other idiocies an amount of screen time that wonderful actors such as Siddig, Lesser, Pryce, Hinds, and others never got. Only exceptions are Tywin, but he's who Benioff wants to be when he grows up, and Dillane who got more screen time than the others but had his character butchered beyond recognition.

So, older renowned actors are needed to lend credibility, but screen time goes to young foxy dornish babes.

Is this some sort of ageism? << on top of everything else.

Yeah, I been wondering myself how the actors feel about watching these scenes like the audience does. Do they feel the need to facepalm when they see stuff like Dorne patty cake and Stannis' Worst. Day. Evah!

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They went out of their way to remove Tywin's pesky pride. Unlike his book counterpart, show Tywin specifically says to his son that other peoples opinions don't matter. This was a clever change because it means that his later actions can be viewed in a pragmatic political aspect as opposed to the personal sphere.

D and D strike me as the kind of people who absolutely bought Tywin's "a dozen at dinner" line, just like Tyrion does. And then, to ram that idea home, they completely cut out the riverlands for the remainder of seasonn 4 and 5, so that the atrocities Tywin orders his men to commit in service to winning the war for the sake of his own family is kept out of sight and out of mind for the audience. Thus, the notion of a "lawful neutral" Tywin is preserved.

Whereas Stannis burns his daughter alive thanks to his all consuming ambition. As a motive, that doesn't even work for TV show Stannis - he was a true believe who thought that R'hollor had chosen him to save the world, so even within their own show that rationale doesn't make sense.

The idea of Tywin's comparison of a few people dying at dinner as opposed to bunch on the battlefield is BULLSHIT anyway, before we even leave The Twins. There was the slaughter of the majority of the Northern army, as well as.....those of The Riverlands, fighting with Edmure who was fighting under Robb. It was never a few people dying at dinner anyway. And, they even DID bother to show all those men dying out by the tents on their travesty of a show, so it's not just a few people dead at dinner. It's using the ideas of truce, treaty,friendship, and trust, oh, and HONOR and trusting in a person's honor, to disarm an army and it's leaders, and then.......slaughtering them.

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Does anyone else get the impression that D&D are like a spoiled, incompetent rich kid who has had a lot of success all his life coasting on his dad's name, influence and money, but feels really resentful and wants to prove that everything he's achieved has been on his own merit: "Booo, I'm gonna prove I'm mah own man!" So he starts ignoring dad's advice and doing stupid shit he came up himself, doing the exact opposite of everything dad ever did and pissing all over dad's legacy. But when he gets himself in trouble as a result of his incompetence, and people start criticizing him, he immediately pulls dad's name to hide behind, because he can't accept any responsibility for his mistakes.





And supposedly Varys hates sorcerers. He had the one that cut off his junk delivered to his chambers in a crate and he mentioned that he supports Tyrion's efforts to defend the city because he didn't want Stannis on the Iron Throne because of Melisandre...and now their seeking the help of another Melisandre? WTF?



Damn, I'm confused already and they haven't even started shooting the next season yet. :stillsick:





If you're looking for logic and consistency, you've come to the wrong show.





I really don't get the sense that House Lannister is any danger following the death of Tywin on the show. A number of machinations were occurring testing Lannister resolve and strength following Tywin's death in SoS. They are non-existent in GOT. Where the hell is all the damn intrigue?!!!!!





But at the same time, Roose Bolton openly disrespects and opposes the Iron Throne by marrying his son to a fugitive wanted for the murder of king Joffrey! And he's not worried, because he thinks the Lannisters stopped having any power the moment Tywin died?! Now he's all about gaining the support of those non-existent Northern lords, the Lannisters can go screw themselves!



Roose Bolton in open rebellion against the Iron Throne, and Doran Martell faithful subject of the IT with no plans for revenge and Targaryen restoration - the show is Bizarro Westeros, indeed! :lol:


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Does anyone else get the impression that D&D are like a spoiled, incompetent rich kid who has had a lot of success all his life coasting on his dad's name, influence and money, but feels really resentful and wants to prove that everything he's achieved has been on his own merit: "Booo, I'm gonna prove I'm mah own man!" So he starts ignoring dad's advice and doing stupid shit he came up himself, doing the exact opposite of everything dad ever did and pissing all over dad's legacy. But when he gets himself in trouble as a result of his incompetence, and people start criticizing him, he immediately pulls dad's name to hide behind, because he can't accept any responsibility for his mistakes.

If you're looking for logic and consistency, you've come to the wrong show.

But at the same time, Roose Bolton openly disrespects and opposes the Iron Throne by marrying his son to a fugitive wanted for the murder of king Joffrey! And he's not worried, because he thinks the Lannisters stopped having any power the moment Tywin died?! Now he's all about gaining the support of those non-existent Northern lords, the Lannisters can go screw themselves!

Roose Bolton in open rebellion against the Iron Throne, and Doran Martell faithful subject of the IT with no plans for revenge and Targaryen restoration - the show is Bizarro Westeros, indeed! :lol:

:lol: I didn't even think of that! But great point!

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Well people, we have our first look at some of D&D's "deeply profound" prose for the next season:

T

Thanks for this, I'm still combing the thread from earlier today, and OH YAY, all that's missing is the High Priestess offering to worship St. Tyrion's Magical Dwarf Penis. Eh, that may be coming, eventually.

http://watchersonthewall.com/game-of-thrones-season-six-audition-surfaces-online/

This definitely reminds me of the Sand Snake audition and script stuff from last year.

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