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Veltigar

Rant and Rave Without Repercussion 3 (Book Spoilers)

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And who could possibly be that stupid and ignorant to think that a real life medieval (and not just medieval) monarch would decide to burn their child, especially their only child and only heir, to win some battle? The only realistic part of that storyline is that Stannis lost support as a result (though the way it happened, with thousands of men disappearing in the night with no one noticing, again made no sense), but that's just a confirmation why it made zero sense for him to do it in the first place. Even he were a complete heartless bastard only interested in his ambition, as D&D think he is, he would also have to be insane and a moron to destroy his own line. It's common knowledge that a monarch's position was weakened if they had no heir, even if they had a long and stable reign like Elizabeth I, and for someone fighting a war of succession or having his position challenged by rivals, it was 10 times as weakening to not have an heir!) Stannis in this case had even no potential heir at all, he even had no relatives he could appoint as heir (except for one lowborn bastard nephew he almost killed, who's somewhere, still rowing...) and he and Selyse were not young on the show and must have been married for a long time without being able to produce more than one surviving child.

The best bit about the desertion is that the soldiers who ran off, the soldiers who were most upset and outraged at Stannis burning his own daughter alive, where the sellswords. The dudes getting paid to fight, who have a rep in show and book canon as being largely immoral shits, are the ones who got all toucan with Stannis. Not Stannis's regular army, the guys who'd know Shireen best, the dudes with honor and who were fighting for a cause, oh no they didn't give a shit, it was the fucking sellswords. The entire plot after Shireens burning was the best example yet of how D&D approach the show, we want to get from A to B and we aren't going to spend a seconds thought about how we'll get there as it doesn't matter, as long as we get to B job done.

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The best bit about the desertion is that the soldiers who ran off, the soldiers who were most upset and outraged at Stannis burning his own daughter alive, where the sellswords. The dudes getting paid to fight, who have a rep in show and book canon as being largely immoral shits, are the ones who got all toucan with Stannis. Not Stannis's regular army, the guys who'd know Shireen best, the dudes with honor and who were fighting for a cause, oh no they didn't give a shit, it was the fucking sellswords. The entire plot after Shireens burning was the best example yet of how D&D approach the show, we want to get from A to B and we aren't going to spend a seconds thought about how we'll get there as it doesn't matter, as long as we get to B job done.

Didn't the sellswords also ditch stannis while the "blizzard" was still ongoing I don't imagine they got Any food from stannis' camp if they tried that there'd be some kind of fight so they left stannis in the north they most likely don't know well without much food or coin to what profit? And blizzard my arse I'm Scottish I've seen worse summers

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Didn't the sellswords also ditch stannis while the "blizzard" was still ongoing I don't imagine they got Any food from stannis' camp if they tried that there'd be some kind of fight so they left stannis in the north they most likely don't know well without much food or coin to what profit? And blizzard my arse I'm Scottish I've seen worse summers

Not sure if the 'thaw' started at night or in the morning when they already left. When Stannis was told by one of his men that the sellswords had run off with all the horses my immediate thoughts were 1) Um what and no one tried to stop them? 2) Um da fuck and no one woke up Stannis so he could try and stop them? and 3) Um what the fuckity fuck? How are they gonna get home? Stannis's ships won't carry them so they gonna march south with no food and supplies? Then again in Show world the North is smaller than Vermont so there's that.

It just made no sense for the sellswords to desert at that point. The 'blizzard' had ended and a thaw had set in, Stannis was in pretty good shape to take WF plus he had powerful weather changing magic on his side. If I was an immoral cutthroat mercenary would I really be running away before I got paid coz I got all toucan at the death of a kid I didn't even know? But D&D wanted Stannis to be in a hopeless position so they could turn the battle of WF into a massacre that could be wrapped up in a single scene. Lazy, lazy, lazy writing.

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Varys: “That sounds excellent. A man named Stannis Baratheon was appointed as the Chosen One by one of your priestesses. He too had a glorious destiny. He attacked King’s Landing, and was soundly defeated by the man standing beside me. Last I heard, he’d been defeated again. This time at Winterfell … and this time for good.”

Good grief, is he Skyping these little birds? Why do they do this? Do they realize that this isn't actually making the world seem more connected, but instead limiting its scope and making everything feel contrived?

And thankfully we have Meli-sans-bra V.2:

Kinvara: “Everyone is what they are and where they are for a reason. Terrible things happen for a reason. Take what happened to you, Lord [Varys], when you were a child. If not for the mutilation by the second-rate sorcerer, you would not be here, helping the Lord’s Chosen bring light into this world. Knowledge has made you very powerful … but there is still so much you don’t know. Do you remember what you heard, the night the sorcerer tossed your parts into the flames? Should I tell you what the voice said? Should I tell you the name of the one who spoke or where it lives?”

Calling it: lesbian scene between the pair of them. Who can get hot and horny better for the lord's favour? Find out next time on GAME OF THRONES!

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Not sure if the 'thaw' started at night or in the morning when they already left. When Stannis was told by one of his men that the sellswords had run off with all the horses my immediate thoughts were 1) Um what and no one tried to stop them? 2) Um da fuck and no one woke up Stannis so he could try and stop them? and 3) Um what the fuckity fuck? How are they gonna get home? Stannis's ships won't carry them so they gonna march south with no food and supplies? Then again in Show world the North is smaller than Vermont so there's that.

It just made no sense for the sellswords to desert at that point. The 'blizzard' had ended and a thaw had set in, Stannis was in pretty good shape to take WF plus he had powerful weather changing magic on his side. If I was an immoral cutthroat mercenary would I really be running away before I got paid coz I got all toucan at the death of a kid I didn't even know? But D&D wanted Stannis to be in a hopeless position so they could turn the battle of WF into a massacre that could be wrapped up in a single scene. Lazy, lazy, lazy writing.

Is it bad that immoral mercs turning on their employer for moral reasons not even high up on the dumb list of season 5 I mean I want to try and not think critically and turn my brain off to try and enjoy got but Got has what 9.5 on imdb probably similar on metacritic or amy other site meaming in a lot of peoples eyes this is almost perfect tv and well shoudnt perfect tv stand up too some scrutiny because if you stop and think about batfinger or larry or dany there is plenty of holes you could name any of the main plots and i could deliver 10 minute rants about them but basically you always disappoint d&d.

Its just so sad when you could have been the best show ever but fail compare season 5 of this to the wires season 5 which I'd say was bad for the wire and well its not fair.

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Good grief, is he Skyping these little birds? Why do they do this? Do they realize that this isn't actually making the world seem more connected, but instead limiting its scope and making everything feel contrived?

And thankfully we have Meli-sans-bra V.2:

Calling it: lesbian scene between the pair of them. Who can get hot and horny better for the lord's favour? Find out next time on GAME OF THRONES!

Not Skype. Twitter. Show!Varys' version of his little bird is the Twitter icon.

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Not Skype. Twitter. Show!Varys' version of his little bird is the Twitter icon.

LOL

Varys' Twitter network. He's invented a secret internet. That sounds about right.

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The idea of Tywin's comparison of a few people dying at dinner as opposed to bunch on the battlefield is BULLSHIT anyway, before we even leave The Twins. There was the slaughter of the majority of the Northern army, as well as.....those of The Riverlands, fighting with Edmure who was fighting under Robb. It was never a few people dying at dinner anyway. And, they even DID bother to show all those men dying out by the tents on their travesty of a show, so it's not just a few people dead at dinner. It's using the ideas of truce, treaty,friendship, and trust, oh, and HONOR and trusting in a person's honor, to disarm an army and it's leaders, and then.......slaughtering them.

Yes, it's an intensely annoying argument and it's amazing how many people parrot it as truth when it's actually sophistry. I think it's completely appropriate for Tywin to say it (he is a sophist, after all - look at his attitude to Tyrion and prostitutes) but not for the showrunners to then repeat it as a solid foundation of governance!

Does anyone else get the impression that D&D are like a spoiled, incompetent rich kid who has had a lot of success all his life coasting on his dad's name, influence and money, but feels really resentful and wants to prove that everything he's achieved has been on his own merit: "Booo, I'm gonna prove I'm mah own man!" So he starts ignoring dad's advice and doing stupid shit he came up himself, doing the exact opposite of everything dad ever did and pissing all over dad's legacy. But when he gets himself in trouble as a result of his incompetence, and people start criticizing him, he immediately pulls dad's name to hide behind, because he can't accept any responsibility for his mistakes.

If you're looking for logic and consistency, you've come to the wrong show.

But at the same time, Roose Bolton openly disrespects and opposes the Iron Throne by marrying his son to a fugitive wanted for the murder of king Joffrey! And he's not worried, because he thinks the Lannisters stopped having any power the moment Tywin died?! Now he's all about gaining the support of those non-existent Northern lords, the Lannisters can go screw themselves!

Roose Bolton in open rebellion against the Iron Throne, and Doran Martell faithful subject of the IT with no plans for revenge and Targaryen restoration - the show is Bizarro Westeros, indeed! :lol:

Absolutely.

LIttle did we know that the 3 eyed raven was actually a mistranslation. It was supposed to be the iRaven 3.

In all seriousness, though, I would make a snarky comment about Varys really being connected to the weirwood network or something, but I can't even do that because there are no weirwoods. He is literally psychic at this point. I would try to be fair and say that we don't know when this scene would take place relative to the season 5 finale, but it probably won't even matter. They'll just know without any reason or method for them doing so.

:rofl:

I know, right? But my silly, skeptical mind still hopes for some consistency and logic, but like Mel's interpretations of the flames, it's all for naught. :(

It really is turn-your-brain-off TV. :ohwell:

Well, since there won't be anything [new] to rant and rave about tomorrow, and seeing this thread already has 1300+ posts... In case it gets locked, it's been a real sanity-saving pleasure to share these threads with all you fine people!

:cheers:

:cheers:

Here, read this. It will be therapeutic to your eyes after reading that load of horseshit fanwank:

From TWOW sample so I put it between spoiler coding:

Stannis bristled at that. "I defeated your uncle Victarion and his Iron Fleet off Fair Isle, the first time your father crowned himself. I held Storm's End against the power of the Reach for a year, and took Dragonstone from the Targaryens. I smashed Mance Rayder at the Wall, though he had twenty times my numbers. Tell me, turncloak, what battles has the Bastard of Bolton ever won that I should fear him?"

Omg I feel like I'm imitating E-Ro now...

:agree: I had to re-read the final chapters and Theon I once I'd watched that compost pile of an episode.

Another thing, they can spend all this money on CGI dragons. I want to see Dire Wolves taking people out, Bad people. I want to see Nymeria's pack attacking Freys and Lannisters in the middle of the Night, tearing them to peices. We deserve this instead of seeing Dany's magestic and flame throwing dragons at us all the time. UGGGGGGHHHHHHH

How about Chekhov's wolf-pack? Will it ever be seen in the show? Doubt it.

Yeah, I'm trying to think of if there was ever a sexy scene in the show, in the sense of not just sex, but something steamy.

All that comes to mind, apart from a few Drogo and Daario moments, is women stripping and just standing there, it's like here it is, folks, naked women, our job is done here. They don't actually write a love scene, or even a steamy sex scene.

I can think of several good scenes from Outlander, for example, where the scene is actually part of their story, it's showing the emotions and how the characters feel about each other, and that moves the relationship along, and thus, the story.

And it's also shown from the perspective of the woman, too. That's important to them, because, you know, she is a person, too.

Whilst I do agree with this, I know you'll think I'm an old codger, but I'm so sick of long simulated sex scenes in drama. GoT does them badly and Outlander ones go on too long. Just not what I'm watching a show for!

The thing about the Pink Letter is that it's really impulsive and angry, which we haven't really seen Ramsay be at all. It would be really inconsistent for Ramsay to have been made so smooth and collected in season 5 just for him to go off the rails and pour that kind of vitriol into the Pink Letter in season 6. It would certainly be consistent with D&D's ever-shifting views of their characters, though.

:agree:

Yeah but in a more consistent show, this shouldn't change a person's fundamental personality. That's the problem. If they continue with the Pink Letter, then it will just be one more instance of plot points from the book being grafted onto show characters for whom those plot points do not work because the characters are so fundamentally different.

I also just don't see what purpose it might serve in the show to have the Pink Letter at all, because Jon is already dead, so its effect on his story is negated and Stannis is already dead, negating the possibility that it was really written by him instead. It just seems a little bit useless at this point, unless it gets sent to someone like Tormund, with the thought being that the wildings, being so numerous, actually pose a threat to Ramsay's attempt to get his bride back. I can't see that it would be sent to any of the Northern Lords because that negates the purpose of the attempts at diplomacy. Unless that's how the show is going to clumsily introduce cracks in the Bolton facade.

You're right. It would be a pointless retcon.

Didn't the sellswords also ditch stannis while the "blizzard" was still ongoing I don't imagine they got Any food from stannis' camp if they tried that there'd be some kind of fight so they left stannis in the north they most likely don't know well without much food or coin to what profit? And blizzard my arse I'm Scottish I've seen worse summers

I'm a Londoner, and so have I!! :lmao:

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Not Skype. Twitter. Show!Varys' version of his little bird is the Twitter icon.

:lmao: Reading that I had a vision of Stannis feed.

@StantheMan It's snowing here, but we are confident. #stannisforking #northtourism

@StantheMan Here a pic of my daughter really love her http/tinyurl.shireen.gif #parentallove #baratheons

@StantheMan We won't retreat ! Rhlorr will help us. #stannisforking #gloryrhlorr

@StantheMan Horse report : losing some to cold. #horseproblem

@StantheMan Can someone tell me if the Dance of Dragons is a good book for a child ? #danceofdragons #parentadvices

@StantheMan It's snowing more, is it the land of always winter or what ? #northsuckjokes

@StantheMan Horse report : losing some more, 20 men raid. #horseproblem

@StantheMan Still snowing, starving a little, butchering horses. #horseproblem #northtourism

@StantheMan Here a pic of my daughter burning, really love her http/tinyurl.shireenburn.gif #gloryrhlorr #stanniforking

@StantheMan Horse report : we still had horses finally. But deserters just stole them. #horseproblem #lifesuck

@StantheMan Let's siege winterfell !!! #stannisforking

@StantheMan They have horses ! #horseproblem #lifesuck #ihaterhlorr

User @StantheMan closed his twitter account.

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:lmao: Reading that I had a vision of Stannis feed.

@StantheMan It's snowing here, but we are confident. #stannisforking #northtourism

@StantheMan Here a pic of my daughter really love her http/tinyurl.shireen.gif #parentallove #baratheons

@StantheMan We won't retreat ! Rhlorr will help us. #stannisforking #gloryrhlorr

@StantheMan Horse report : losing some to cold. #horseproblem

@StantheMan Can someone tell me if the Dance of Dragons is a good book for a child ? #danceofdragons #parentadvices

@StantheMan It's snowing more, is it the land of always winter or what ? #northsuckjokes

@StantheMan Horse report : losing some more, 20 men raid. #horseproblem

@StantheMan Still snowing, starving a little, butchering horses. #horseproblem #northtourism

@StantheMan Here a pic of my daughter burning, really love her http/tinyurl.shireenburn.gif #gloryrhlorr #stanniforking

@StantheMan Horse report : we still had horses finally. But deserters just stole them. #horseproblem #lifesuck

@StantheMan Let's siege winterfell !!! #stannisforking

@StantheMan They have horses ! #horseproblem #lifesuck #ihaterhlorr

User @StantheMan closed his twitter account.

You have just made me want an updated version of the GoT Facebook articles, but with Twitter and purely to snark at how bad this season was. Someone please make this happen.

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DnD just inspired me with that Orson Scott Card dissing. If I ever write a book and get it published, I'll have two characters named David and Dan who will in some way twist every story they hear into their own, illogical versions that completely butcher and misunderstand the characters in the stories. Maybe I'll even have a character named George or Martin kick them off a cliff or something.

I can't believe some journalist wrote that the Beetle-scene is possibly some of the most clever dissing ever.

Clever.

CLEVER?!?!?!?1

:bang:

I have already started this in my own semi-fanfiction. The characters have been idiots since Sansa knelt to her Gaoler in season 3, but this season I realised that D&D are frankly creepy (far beyond unreflective Tyrion fanboyism) and for that, there must be consequences.

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Yes, it's an intensely annoying argument and it's amazing how many people parrot it as truth when it's actually sophistry. I think it's completely appropriate for Tywin to say it (he is a sophist, after all - look at his attitude to Tyrion and prostitutes) but not for the showrunners to then repeat it as a solid foundation of governance!

One more example of how they do not understand ASoIaF.

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Since I am currently chilling in the middle of the forest with barely anything resembling internet or TV, I thought I'd reread A Feast for Crows, which I, when I read it many years ago, didn't really like, considering how high I was on ASoS at the moment. But this beyond awful season and the ranting on these forums and the posts by gotgifsandmusings and theculturalvacuum inspired me to reread it and hopefully appreciate it a lot more.



And by the old gods. In one chapter, which in my version of the book is roughly 22 pages long, we're introduced to Doran, Areo Hotah, Obara, Nym and Tyene, and they already feel like real, interesting characters. In 22 pages Martin managed to show us much more about those characters' personalities than D&D managed in an entire season, not that it's that hard, considering how the show versions didn't have any personality beyond Prince Soup, Badass Black Man and The Bad Pussy Girls. Not only does Martin manage to introduce us to all these characters in one chapter and make us want to know more about them, but he also manages to introduce us to the politics of Dorne, and he shows us how Oberyn's death has affected these characters and the entire kingdom. And do you want to know what the best thing is? No bad pussies in sight.




Her mother had been a septa, and Tyene had an air of almost otherworldly innocence about her.




Show!Tyene: "You want the good girl, but you need the bad pussy"



If adaptation is the same as reading a recap meant for six year olds and then filling in all the blanks while altering huge parts of the shallow recap, then I guess GoT is an adaptation of ASoIaF. No, maybe not even then.





I have already started this in my own semi-fanfiction. The characters have been idiots since Sansa knelt to her Gaoler in season 3, but this season I realised that D&D are frankly creepy (far beyond unreflective Tyrion fanboyism) and for that, there must be consequences.





Yeah, especially Benioff sends chills down my spine. Weiss seems more chill, but who knows what kind of evil could be brewing in his head? :eek:



I just realized why D&D love Tyrion and Tywin so much, it's because of the actors: Dinklage and Dance ... D&D! It's all one big conspiracy!


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Yeah, especially Benioff sends chills down my spine. Weiss seems more chill, but who knows what kind of evil could be brewing in his head? :eek:

I just realized why D&D love Tyrion and Tywin so much, it's because of the actors: Dinklage and Dance ... D&D! It's all one big conspiracy!

Well, Benioff is the evil overlord and Weiss his worm minion. And D&D, another sign of bad and weak writers/showrunners, have bent to the will of individual actors many times before. It is laughable.

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Didn't the sellswords also ditch stannis while the "blizzard" was still ongoing I don't imagine they got Any food from stannis' camp if they tried that there'd be some kind of fight so they left stannis in the north they most likely don't know well without much food or coin to what profit? And blizzard my arse I'm Scottish I've seen worse summers

I actually like, hope, and pray for Preston Jacobs to be correct in his theory about Stannis's army's deserters being a fake out on Stannis behalf. In his episode 10 review he predicts that Stannis sent them away to lull the Boltons into a false sense of security. I don't " believe" it but I hope he is right and Stannis had a plan because the incompetence he displayed in episodes 9 and 10 was mind blowing. He is Satannis of the show, not Stannis Beratheon of the books, I cannot ever reconcile the 2

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Well, due to the "warding effect" like in bloodraven's cave, the wall must have a Night's watch that has some faithful to their vows. i think the watch must disintegrate or get wiped out all together for the others and White Walkers to either and bring the wall down or simply pass over or through it. Jon's assasination in both tv and book could provoke the Wildings to accomplish this. What do they know of the vows of the NW and the magic it does to protect the realms of men?

We're still here YAY! :)

Or the wildlings, being of purer FM stock, will actually make the NW more as it once was, long long ago.

Cogman wrote "Kill the Boy" and (ugh) "Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken".

And according to the Ds Cogman is 'the keeper of continuity', so yeah.

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Wow. That is so exciting to hear that they will be showing the Cranogmen in S6. Cause we all know how much the Cranogmen love to do nothing other than "fuck and fight." Which, is precisely, why the Dornish, who prefer instead to "fight and fuck," hate them.



I can see it now. Floating brothels on giant lillypads. Bewbs! And a refuge for all the gays in Westeros to escape the persecution of the Westerosboro Baptist Churchers. Love it! D&D are so smart. Can't wait.


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Didn't the sellswords also ditch stannis while the "blizzard" was still ongoing I don't imagine they got Any food from stannis' camp if they tried that there'd be some kind of fight so they left stannis in the north they most likely don't know well without much food or coin to what profit? And blizzard my arse I'm Scottish I've seen worse summers

sorry, double post

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We're still here YAY! :)

Or the wildlings, being of purer FM stock, will actually make the NW more as it once was, long long ago.

And according to the Ds Cogman is 'the keeper of continuity', so yeah.

I felt Kill The Boy was one of the better episodes of this season (not saying much) and at that time was thinking Cogman could be the one to save things. Now I Know he's the keeper of continuity, he's gone way down in my estimation. I do think he structures scenes better as a writer, but keeper of continuity is a damning indictment given the many issues this year.

It's a strange one with Cogman, I do like the fact he has been willing to offer an apology for some viewer reactions. More than the Ds are likely to.

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Does anyone else get the impression that D&D are like a spoiled, incompetent rich kid who has had a lot of success all his life coasting on his dad's name, influence and money, but feels really resentful and wants to prove that everything he's achieved has been on his own merit: "Booo, I'm gonna prove I'm mah own man!" So he starts ignoring dad's advice and doing stupid shit he came up himself, doing the exact opposite of everything dad ever did and pissing all over dad's legacy. But when he gets himself in trouble as a result of his incompetence, and people start criticizing him, he immediately pulls dad's name to hide behind, because he can't accept any responsibility for his mistakes.

If you're looking for logic and consistency, you've come to the wrong show.

But at the same time, Roose Bolton openly disrespects and opposes the Iron Throne by marrying his son to a fugitive wanted for the murder of king Joffrey! And he's not worried, because he thinks the Lannisters stopped having any power the moment Tywin died?! Now he's all about gaining the support of those non-existent Northern lords, the Lannisters can go screw themselves!

Roose Bolton in open rebellion against the Iron Throne, and Doran Martell faithful subject of the IT with no plans for revenge and Targaryen restoration - the show is Bizarro Westeros, indeed! :lol:

This. Great points! :cheers:

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