Pain killer Jane Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Do you by any chance use blood oranges? ;) Lemons themselves are not bittersweet--you have to add some sugar to make them less bitter, and at that point you might as well add some water and ice while you're at it. It's just hit me: this entire series is a recipe! The bitter disappointments of life + the sweet moments = lemonade. The human heart in conflict with itself = lemonade. It's all a metaphor for the irony of a drink best served cold that can only be made with a fruit that grows in a hot climate. You can't get the best of the lemons (from a hot place) unless you have some ice (from a cold place). They have to work together to survive and make good beverages...and working together means compromise, so neither side is entirely happy, which brings us back to bittersweet, which brings us back to lemonade. Gosh, I've never won a thread before. :blushing: True, there are things far more bitter than death. Congrats to you and to the OP. This is crucial. There are no such things as happy endings. Now maybe the next question would be is, why no limes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Sorry. If you will not accept my testimony (I swear before mods and members that it is true), you will have to consult a maester at your local library. Then that's not "proof," is it? :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 Sweet! :cheers:No, no, no... "bittersweet." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 Then that's not "proof," is it? :PA proof is anything that tends to support the assertion. My testimony is proof here. You might choose to give it little credibility, or you might try to discredit it, but it's still proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Congrats to you and to the OP. This is crucial. There are no such things as happy endings. Now maybe the next question would be is, why no limes? Thank you! The limes would be the subject for a new topic I think...but if I had to hazard a guess I'd say they play a part in either Robert's Rebellion or Aegon's Conquest, so GRRM is saving them for another book/series. A proof is anything that tends to support the assertion. My testimony is proof here. You might choose to give it little credibility, or you might try to discredit it, but it's still proof. Evidence supports. Proof proves. A lot of people get that mixed up. For the record I don't doubt the information you've given, I'm just a word nerd. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 Thank you! The limes would be the subject for a new topic I think...but if I had to hazard a guess I'd say they play a part in either Robert's Rebellion or Aegon's Conquest, so GRRM is saving them for another book/series. Evidence supports. Proof proves. A lot of people get that mixed up. For the record I don't doubt the information you've given, I'm just a word nerd. :DTake it up with google..."evidence or argument establishing or helping to establish a fact or the truth of a statement." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Take it up with google..."evidence or argument establishing or helping to establish a fact or the truth of a statement."Yeah, I always take Google's word on definitions. <sarcasm off> It's only proof it it actually establishes something as fact or truth. If it merely suggests that it might be fact or truth, it cannot be counted as proving anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Sorry. If you will not accept my testimony (I swear before mods and members that it is true), you will have to consult a maester at your local library. I for one believe you, in part because this issue has come up before. When this issue came up before, people were going by the text of "Blood of the Dragon" as re-printed in QUARTET. To my knowledge, you are the first person to have checked the text of the original magazine. Do you still have access to the magazine text? Could you answer questions like: What city are Illyrio and Dany in at the start of the story? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 Yeah, I always take Google's word on definitions. <sarcasm off> It's only proof it it actually establishes something as fact or truth. If it merely suggests that it might be fact or truth, it cannot be counted as proving anything.I just consulted Black's, and while I think I have enough to argue the point ad nauseam, I like your position better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 I for one believe you, in part because this issue has come up before. When this issue came up before, people were going by the text of "Blood of the Dragon" as re-printed in QUARTET. To my knowledge, you are the first person to have checked the text of the original magazine. Do you still have access to the magazine text? Could you answer questions like: What city are Illyrio and Dany in at the start of the story?Yes. Pentos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Yes. Pentos. Aargh!! The other guy told me they started with Illyrio in Braavos instead of Pentos (unless I misunderstood him/her)! Now I don't know who to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 I just consulted Black's, and while I think I have enough to argue the point ad nauseam, I like your position better. Oh, thanks. I don't feel up to arguing either. :D Aargh!! The other guy told me they started with Illyrio in Braavos instead of Pentos (unless I misunderstood him/her)! Now I don't know who to believe. Varys and Illyrio met in Braavos. But he'd long-since moved to Pentos by the time the series has begun. Dany stayed at his Pentoshi manse for six months before she married Drogo. Viserys was there too, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 Aargh!! The other guy told me they started with Illyrio in Braavos instead of Pentos (unless I misunderstood him/her)! Now I don't know who to believe.I'm like The Ned. I wouldn't lie unless it was to save one of my children or my sister's children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 Oh, thanks. I don't feel up to arguing either. :D Varys and Illyrio met in Braavos. But he'd long-since moved to Pentos by the time the series has begun. Dany stayed at his Pentoshi manse for six months before she married Drogo. Viserys was there too, of course.They met in Pentos..."How is it that the Spider became so dear to you?""We were young together, two green boys in Pentos.""Varys came from Myr.""So he did. I met him not long after he arrived, one step ahead of the slavers. Tyrion II, Dance 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 They met in Pentos...Tyrion II, Dance 5I thought Illyrio was a Bravo. Can you be a Bravo outside of Braavos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daendrew Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Really great post. Thanks for doing all the legwork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinner Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 My gradfather has Lemon tree. Lemon tree needs winds and sun, but we ripe lemons during winter. Also, lemon tree is just regular bush, not a tree. I seen it with my own eyes.All citrus are trees not bushes. I suspect what you saw was a dwarf variety which are popular ornimrnmental trees. We grow a huge amount of citrus here in California and I have an orange, a lemon, a lime, and a mandran growing in my backyard (along with peach, apricot, avocado, almond, and macademia nut). Next I want to plant some dragon fruit and maybe some coffee which are bushes.The climate here in San Diego is great for this sort of stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcotron Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 I thought Illyrio was a Bravo. Can you be a Bravo outside of Braavos?Yes. For example, when Tyrion arrives in Volantis: Proud Volantis, queen of the Rhoyne and mistress of the Summer Sea, home to noble lords and lovely ladies of the most ancient blood. Never mind the packs of naked children that roamed the alleys screaming in shrill voices, or the bravos standing in the doors of wineshops fingering their sword hilts, or the slaves with their bent backs and tattooed faces who scurried everywhere like cockroaches.He notices bravos a few times after that in Volantis, and I think Kasporio is described as a bravo from Tyrosh, but I don't think we need to search for more quotes. I'm not even sure the words "bravo" is related to "Braavos". If they are, that would imply (although certainly not prove) that the word "bravo" was likely imported back into Braavosi from another Valyrian dialect that hadn't undergone whatever sound shift the double-a represents. Plus, even if bravos could only come from Braavos, didn't Illyrio also describe himself as a sellsword in those days? You can certainly be a bravo-turned-sellsword wherever you end up selling your sword, no matter where you came from originally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcotron Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 We grow a huge amount of citrus here in California and I have an orange, a lemon, a lime, and a mandran growing in my backyard (along with peach, apricot, avocado, almond, and macademia nut). Next I want to plant some dragon fruit and maybe some coffee which are bushes. The climate here in San Diego is great for this sort of stuff.Growing up in Los Angeles (well, the Valley), we grew lemon trees without even trying. Our neighbor's lemon tree kept growing over our fence, and somehow we ended up with two new trees. I remember my biology teacher and his wife arguing over whether they grew from the roots coming under our fence, or from the seeds dropping in the soil (they each thought one of those was impossible, and the other reasonable.) I thought that was pretty cool at first (lemonade stand!), but it was a few years before they grew big enough to have any lemons, and well before then, they'd already grown big enough to block the sun from our kumquat tree and it stopped bearing fruit. So, yeah, lemons mean bitter disappointment. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pain killer Jane Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 I thought Illyrio was a Bravo. Can you be a Bravo outside of Braavos? Ex-pats are still nominally considered American but still living in foreign countries. The word is misleading. This would go into the subject of at which point does an immigrant stop being their original country and become their adopted country. I wonder what Illyrio thinks he is. Braavosi or Pentoshi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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